Should liberals leave the catholic church?

[b_justb]

vern humphrey;:

And, as you say, it’s hard to do. We have to admit we are wrong, and not God.

INDEED! That’s the hardest part (for me anyway). And since I’ve had to do this a few times in the last several years I have had to go to confession and barf it all out again once I realize what was what. For me the last part really brings a closure to the whole thing. What would we do without Confession? (Maybe off topic, never mind)

 

[mark_a]

should liberals leave the catholic church?

No.

When you listen to Catholic radio, one of the things often pointed out is how absurd it is for people to go church shopping.

If we force liberals out, we are sending them church shopping.

 

[sosayi1960]

You’re going to punish God by leaving the Church, and it’s all **my **fault?

I’m not punishing anyone, certainly not you. I’m not blaming God, I’m blaming those who “Speak for God”.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I’m not punishing anyone, certainly not you. I’m not blaming God, I’m blaming those who “Speak for God”.

And punishing them by leaving the Church?

How does that hurt them? How does that help you?

If the people of whom you speak are lay persons, ignore them. If they are the Bishops exercising the Magisterium, pray for grace to understand and accept.

 

[Julianna]

Is this not the usual canard presented? I am always reading here charges of being a pharisee, or legalist, or such thing.

It seems to imply the “letter of the law” is really not important and is simply some ideal in some dusty book while the truth is we should just operate by “love” which is rarely defined in any meaningful way.

It is as if love and the law oppose each other.

Can children be raised out of book? I don’t recall sifting through the afterbirth for the instruction manual. I know what anamchara means. Love of a parent toward a child is undefineable but nonetheless meaningful. The greatest commandment is “Love one another as I have loved you.” Speaks volumes…and Jesus “actually said so”. It wasn’t written in canon law number 5000 para VI, subset 6, page 9000…etc. etc. etc. Laws are made for “organizational” purposes. Some laws referring to say 1870 aren’t really practical in today’s reality. This is where the disagreement comes into play. There are people who openly say they “disagree” with the “letter of the law” mentality while placing the “spirit of the law” in the forefront “to teach as Jesus did”. I don’t recall him (in the Bible) carrying around volumes of books (scrolls) of doctrine when he preached the sermon on the mount, healed the sick, comforted the grieving, dined with tax collectors and prostitutes, spoke in parables…I do recall the Pharisees with books (scrolls) reciting ad naseum about Jesus’ disobiedance to the “law”. Jesus spoke from the heart.

Ah yes, so much to memorize, so much to learn, so much to defend…and be sure you get it right…because some guy back in the middle ages wrote this and there might be an essay test on it…and if you fail…“out you go”…“you liberal you”.

Being chaptered and versed in the “letter of the law” to the point of blind obiediance to it…never gets to experience the mission of being human. How sad.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

No.

When you listen to Catholic radio, one of the things often pointed out is how absurd it is for people to go church shopping.

If we force liberals out, we are sending them church shopping.

Parishes are their own little communities. If you have more than one in the city or close by you can pick the best one for you, not always the closest one. Pick the one you get spiritually renewed at. Otherwise you are just “going through the motions” going to a parish that does not fit you.

 

[estesbob]

Can children be raised out of book? I don’t recall sifting through the afterbirth for the instruction manual. I know what anamchara means. Love of a parent toward a child is undefineable but nonetheless meaningful. The greatest commandment is "Love one another as I have loved you."
Ah yes, so much to memorize, so much to learn, so much to defend…and be sure you get it right…because some guy back in the middle ages wrote this and there might be an essay test on it…and if you fail…“out you go”…“you liberal you”.

.

I swear this is one of the only two verses most liberal Catholics know. (The other is the one about the “beam in your eye” ) You have really added no insight in what you believe other than it has something to with love and the rest of us are Pharasees.

Well at least you like Harry Potter…

 

[anamchara]

Can children be raised out of book? I don’t recall sifting through the afterbirth for the instruction manual. I know what anamchara means. Love of a parent toward a child is undefineable but nonetheless meaningful. The greatest commandment is “Love one another as I have loved you.” Speaks volumes…and Jesus “actually said so”. It wasn’t written in canon law number 5000 para VI, subset 6, page 9000…etc. etc. etc. Laws are made for “organizational” purposes. Some laws referring to say 1870 aren’t really practical in today’s reality. This is where the disagreement comes into play. There are people who openly say they “disagree” with the “letter of the law” mentality while placing the “spirit of the law” in the forefront “to teach as Jesus did”. I don’t recall him (in the Bible) carrying around volumes of books (scrolls) of doctrine when he preached the sermon on the mount, healed the sick, comforted the grieving, dined with tax collectors and prostitutes, spoke in parables…I do recall the Pharisees with books (scrolls) reciting ad naseum about Jesus’ disobiedance to the “law”. Jesus spoke from the heart.

Ah yes, so much to memorize, so much to learn, so much to defend…and be sure you get it right…because some guy back in the middle ages wrote this and there might be an essay test on it…and if you fail…“out you go”…“you liberal you”.

Being chaptered and versed in the “letter of the law” to the point of blind obiediance to it…never gets to experience the mission of being human. How sad.

Perfect Julianna, you are a dear and funny as well This is my sentiment and I couldn’t have said it better.

 

[anamchara]

I’m not punishing anyone, certainly not you. I’m not blaming God, I’m blaming those who “Speak for God”.

I thought so for some reason a few in this thread keep wanting to change words into attacks on God or Church it’s about the peoples behavior, how many times have I said this in this thread :banghead: and how many different ways. I should go back and count lol!

 

[rlg94086]

Are you saying you don’t believe in studying and following the teaching of the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

I’ve never read Canon Law, but I certainly do my best to follow the teaching of Christ. I know no other way to discern that other than listening to instruction from our pastor and bishop, reading the Catechism, reading and the Bible, and praying. Jesus Himself referred to Holy Scripture, especially when dealing with the devil in the desert. Mary also quoted from Scripture.

You make it sound like we are to follow the 60s motto - “if it feels good, do it.”

Can children be raised out of book? I don’t recall sifting through the afterbirth for the instruction manual. I know what anamchara means. Love of a parent toward a child is undefineable but nonetheless meaningful. The greatest commandment is “Love one another as I have loved you.” Speaks volumes…and Jesus “actually said so”. It wasn’t written in canon law number 5000 para VI, subset 6, page 9000…etc. etc. etc. Laws are made for “organizational” purposes. Some laws referring to say 1870 aren’t really practical in today’s reality. This is where the disagreement comes into play. There are people who openly say they “disagree” with the “letter of the law” mentality while placing the “spirit of the law” in the forefront “to teach as Jesus did”. I don’t recall him (in the Bible) carrying around volumes of books (scrolls) of doctrine when he preached the sermon on the mount, healed the sick, comforted the grieving, dined with tax collectors and prostitutes, spoke in parables…I do recall the Pharisees with books (scrolls) reciting ad naseum about Jesus’ disobiedance to the “law”. Jesus spoke from the heart.

Ah yes, so much to memorize, so much to learn, so much to defend…and be sure you get it right…because some guy back in the middle ages wrote this and there might be an essay test on it…and if you fail…“out you go”…“you liberal you”.

Being chaptered and versed in the “letter of the law” to the point of blind obiediance to it…never gets to experience the mission of being human. How sad.

 

[anamchara]

Are you saying you don’t believe in studying and following the teaching of the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

How did you read that from what she wrote?
I suppose one could, if one really tried, get there but that would take an awful lot of uncharitable presumptions. Perhaps, the post reminds you of some other people who expressed the attitude you describe. If so, your issue is with them, not Juliana.

 

[Dranu]

The idea is that if you love God, you will follow His law. If one gets their source of religion from specific quotes in the Bible and their own deluded self-interpretation, then you are already protestant. The Catholic faith is one of recognizing more than just the Holy Bible as the source of faith, and acknowledging (in humility) that there is more divine interpretation than one’s own.

In short, if being liberal means not accepting every single doctrine or dogma (doesn’t matter how inconvenient it may seem in the modern world), doesn’t that mean you already aren’t Catholic? By all means come to mass and try to come out of that hell of self-worship (not saying your soul is condemned, I don’t have a window into one’s soul) you have imprisoned yourself in though.

 

[rlg94086]

How did you read that from what she wrote?

I’m asking her…primarily because of these statements:

Can children be raised out of book? I don’t recall sifting through the afterbirth for the instruction manual.

Being chaptered and versed in the “letter of the law” to the point of blind obiediance to it…never gets to experience the mission of being human. How sad.

I think it’s important to read our instruction manual (Catechism) and be versed in the “letter of the law.” Although, I would say her categorizing it as “blind obedience” is ignorant. Blind obedience would be following the Church ***without ***being well versed in the Bible and the Catechism. That said, blind obedience is better than trying to justify no obedience by quoting the words of Our Lord.

 

[Dranu]

Edit: oops rlg94086 beat me to the post in response. Take into account also that rlg94086 asked because she said this too:

Some laws referring to say 1870 aren’t really practical in today’s reality. This is where the disagreement comes into play. There are people who openly say they “disagree” with the “letter of the law” mentality while placing the “spirit of the law” in the forefront “to teach as Jesus did”.

It just feels like it implies disobedience.

 

[Dranu]

How did you read that from what she wrote?
I suppose one could, if one really tried, get there but that would take an awful lot of uncharitable presumptions. Perhaps, the post reminds you of some other people who expressed the attitude you describe. If so, your issue is with them, not Juliana.

You should make a new post if you are going to edit your old post to add that much after responses have already been made.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I swear this is one of the only two verses most liberal Catholics know. (The other is the one about the “beam in your eye” ) You have really added no insight in what you believe other than it has something to with love and the rest of us are Pharasees.

Well at least you like Harry Potter…

Yet those verses do say quite a bit and are easy and simple to follow. It is not prudent to go about with the CCC everywhere.

What I see is not a “liberal vs conservative”, “orthodox vs heterodox” discussion but more of a “pastoral vs administrative” approach. This more than a Bishops’ teaching style, but what average Catholics day to day.

The two passages focused on suggest a humble approach to your fellow person.

And yes, those two passages’ general themes are all over the Harry Potter series.

 

[rlg94086]

How did you read that from what she wrote?
I suppose one could, if one really tried, get there but that would take an awful lot of uncharitable presumptions. Perhaps, the post reminds you of some other people who expressed the attitude you describe. If so, your issue is with them, not Juliana.

I don’t appreciate you characterizing a question as an accusation. I’m sure Julianna is more than capable of clarifying if that is not what she meant.

 

[blessedtoo]

There are people who openly say they “disagree” with the “letter of the law” mentality while placing the “spirit of the law” in the forefront “to teach as Jesus did”. I don’t recall him (in the Bible) carrying around volumes of books (scrolls) of doctrine when he preached the sermon on the mount, healed the sick, comforted the grieving, dined with tax collectors and prostitutes, spoke in parables…I do recall the Pharisees with books (scrolls) reciting ad naseum about Jesus’ disobiedance to the “law”. Jesus spoke from the heart.

Sorry. I can’t let this slide.
Do you have any idea how many times Jesus quoted Scripture during His ministry? I suggest you refer to your “scrolls” (Bible) and refresh your memory. All Jews of Christ’s day KNEW their scripture and didn’t need to carry around any “books”. Christ quoted the Laws during the Sermon on the Mount, during the teaching on divorce and marriage, in His encounter in the Temple where He actually reads from the scrolls to His brethren, and on and on. Christ was not a teddy bear. He adhered to the law Himself.

 

[estesbob]

Yet those verses do say quite a bit and are easy and simple to follow. It is not prudent to go about with the CCC everywhere.

What I see is not a “liberal vs conservative”, “orthodox vs heterodox” discussion but more of a “pastoral vs administrative” approach. This more than a Bishops’ teaching style, but what average Catholics day to day.

The two passages focused on suggest a humble approach to your fellow person.

And yes, those two passages’ general themes are all over the Harry Potter series.

Actually those two verses are genreally pulled out when one wants to rationalize why they dont have to follow the teachings of the Church.

 

[newbetx]

I’m sure this is answered somewhere, here, but I was unable to find… If Jesus walked amoung us today, as he did prior to his crucifiction, would he be considered Liberal or Conservative?