Should liberals leave the catholic church?

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newbetx said:
I’m sure this is answered somewhere, here, but I was unable to find… If Jesus walked amoung us today, as he did prior to his crucifiction, would he be considered Liberal or Conservative?
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He is perfect as His Father is perfect, so it doesn’t make any sense to categorize Him using our humanly imperfect labeling.
 
rlg94086 said:
I’m asking her…primarily because of these statements:

I think it’s important to read our instruction manual (Catechism) and be versed in the “letter of the law.” Although, I would say her categorizing it as “blind obedience” is ignorant. Blind obedience would be following the Church ***without ***being well versed in the Bible and the Catechism. That said, blind obedience is better than trying to justify no obedience by quoting the words of Our Lord.
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I disagree, I took the meaning as being so blind that you forget to treat others as Christ would. She was referring to the poster “fix” and trying to clarify comments and issues I was having (as she made reference to me) with how others use the letter the of the law. The fact that she brought up Christs teaching completely seems to have past right by you. I saw no where that she implies not reading the bible or the catechism. She made several references to the bible.

I see a trend in this thread to lump people into pre-defined categories no matter how well they fit which causes you to read a post with very bias eyes.

As one my old priest used to say and also the one I have now. It’s not all about the rules, focusing too much on that wrong. It’s about following Christ and that is what Juli was trying to point out. Bringing up the “60s” comment was a way to discredit anything she has to say, it belittles the tone of her post.
 
newbetx said:
I’m sure this is answered somewhere, here, but I was unable to find… If Jesus walked amoung us today, as he did prior to his crucifiction, would he be considered Liberal or Conservative?
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I think he would be above our concept of liberal and conservative. I’m sure he would not be happy with the way we are bickering among each other though and might send St. Paul to straighten us out since 🙂
 
anamchara said:
Bringing up the “60s” comment was a way to discredit anything she has to say, it belittles the tone of her post.
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Since the “tone of her post” was that conservatives are Pharisees, I have no problem with discrediting what she had to say.
 
anamchara said:
As one my old priest used to say and also the one I have now. It’s not all about the rules, focusing too much on that wrong. It’s about following Christ.
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Following the rules is following Christ, as He is the Word. I hope that he didn’t imply knowingly breaking a rule or 2 that the Church teaches was not a big deal.
 
anamchara said:
I think he would be above our concept of liberal and conservative. I’m sure he would not be happy with the way we are bickering among each other though and might send St. Paul to straighten us out since 🙂
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You misunderstand my question, I think… How would he be perceived by the general population? Since we know Him, we can’t judge, but we might be able to guess what some people that didn’t know Him, might think of Him…

He certainly taught different rules than those in place at the time. And he practiced against some, too.

With whom would he hang out? Would the conservatives label Him a lib and vice versa? I bet so. They might even both put Him down and call Him a ‘moderate’! or some other ‘evil’ thinking person. AH! And then they’d crucify Him…

I ask this because I believe, like several here, that the Church is patient and would rather have those who sin (but deny themselves) in Her fold rather than toss them out and only allow the purists in… Isn’t that what Heaven is for?
 
I agree wholeheartedly that those liberals should definitely leave the Catholic Church…

…right after the closing procession.😃
 
You have a clear misunderstanding of conservatives, liberals and Christ’s teachings. Many conservatives reach out and do work with “sinners.” Liberals do as well. Some liberals though, say that the rules are unimportant - homosexual sex is okay, divorce is okay, birth control is okay. All of these things are sin. Jesus always said “sin no more.” Do liberals always say that?

This is why Christ transcends the terms. He would not be “loosy-goosy” with sin, but his approach would be more loving than most liberals and conservatives.

To claim that conservatives would crucify Him, is a real clear example of your hatred of your fellow Catholics. Jesus probably wouldn’t approve of that either.
newbetx said:
You misunderstand my question, I think… How would he be perceived by the general population? Since we know Him, we can’t judge, but we might be able to guess what some people that didn’t know Him, might think of Him…

He certainly taught different rules than those in place at the time. And he practiced against some, too.

With whom would he hang out? Would the conservatives label Him a lib and vice versa? I bet so. They might even both put Him down and call Him a ‘moderate’! or some other ‘evil’ thinking person. AH! And then they’d crucify Him…

I ask this because I believe, like several here, that the Church is patient and would rather have those who sin (but deny themselves) in Her fold rather than toss them out and only allow the purists in… Isn’t that what Heaven is for?
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blessedtoo said:
Sorry. I can’t let this slide.
Do you have any idea how many times Jesus quoted Scripture during His ministry? I suggest you refer to your “scrolls” (Bible) and refresh your memory. All Jews of Christ’s day KNEW their scripture and didn’t need to carry around any “books”. Christ quoted the Laws during the Sermon on the Mount, during the teaching on divorce and marriage, in His encounter in the Temple where He actually reads from the scrolls to His brethren, and on and on. Christ was not a teddy bear. He adhered to the law Himself.
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There’s no need to get wound up my friend. Again I think her point was about obsessing on the letter of law and nothing more. It was from an earlier point I was trying to make and she was clarifying. Also, Christ chastised the Phareses and scribes.

Matthew 23:27:
"
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanliness."
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The Phareses where all about letter of the law and were indeed dead inside. He also healed on the sabbath, ate with tax collectors and prostitutes , he didn’t always go by the letter of the law. Teddy Bear? hardly but full of love and forgiveness, yes.

I’m sorry but I really feel you missed the point of Julianna’s post.
 
Dranu said:
Following the rules is following Christ, as He is the Word. I hope that he didn’t imply knowingly breaking a rule or 2 that the Church teaches was not a big deal.
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no but thank you for not assuming he did, it’s a breath of fresh air 🙂
 
You misunderstand my question, I think… How would he be perceived by the general population? Since we know Him, we can’t judge, but we might be able to guess what some people that didn’t know Him, might think of Him…
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I guess how the world sees the Body of Christ is how they would see Him. What is so cool about Christ is it is really hard to give Him a definite political judgement (God is far above politics anyhow, just talking about the world). It would seem like He would be some revolutionary, but then you have the situation with the soldier, and give to Caesar what is due to him, not to mention God through Peter in ‘honor the emperor’. G. K. Chesterton’s Everlasting Man talks alot about that sort of thing (where I got the idea from 🙂 )

I think **the world ** on a whole might see Him as ‘ultra conservative’ (since most people who are strict in believing all dogma and doctrine are to be followed are labled as such) in modern times, but at the same time, I think alot of ‘conservatives’ would call Him ‘liberal’ on many issues. Just my 2 cents though.
 
Just as a side note I think it is very important to never **ever **let politics invade your faith, but to always let your faith influence your politics. I think we sometimes forget this in a world where politics can easily become people’s false gods. God/Church should always be first to avoid evil sin.
 
rlg94086 said:
Since the “tone of her post” was that conservatives are Pharisees, I have no problem with discrediting what she had to say.
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Well, they do often act like this, not all. If you read the bible and see the issues Christ had with Pharisees, it does seem to be much like the major traditionalists in the Church today. Only my opinion. 🤷 actually many feel this way that I have on this forum as a matter of fact.
 
I once heard a pastor once say (in response to someone saying “You can never be too conservative”) “You can be too conservative or too liberal…until it starts to hurt people.”

This is just my opinion of the conservatives I know, basically my whole family…they would never take a stand against poverty, social injustice, or freely give to charity.

Now I know that’s not the same for everyone who identifies themselves as conservative, but I don’t let my moderate politics detract from my love for God and Jesus Christ. I do what my heart and my conscience tells me is right after long, thoughtful prayer to the Lord.

If the discussion is not about the relation of someone’s politics and the Church, consider my above statement lost on the wind 🙂
 
If you read the bible and see the issues Christ had with Pharisees, it does seem to be much like the major traditionalists in the Church today.
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I guess it depends on the traditionalist. The excommunicates probably, but I would only say a few of the non excommunicates are as such, but maybe thats because I sypmathize with alot of what they say 😛 , just not to the extent of talking against the Pope.
 
uwwhitewater84 said:
I once heard a pastor once say (in response to someone saying “You can never be too conservative”) “You can be too conservative or too liberal…until it starts to hurt people.”

I like this 🙂 smart pastor
If the discussion is not about the relation of someone’s politics and the Church, consider my above statement lost on the wind 🙂
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anamchara said:
Well, they do often act like this, not all. If you read the bible and see the issues Christ had with Pharisees, it does seem to be much like the major traditionalists in the Church today. Only my opinion. 🤷 actually many feel this way that I have on this forum as a matter of fact.
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I’m not sure who you mean by “major traditionalists,” but generally I have only heard the Pharisee card being played when someone is told that the beliefs they hold and convey or sinful actions they condone are against the clear teaching of the Church.

The issue with the Pharisees is that they thought they were better and more holy than everyone else. I see this attitude equally from “liberals” and “conservatives.” An attitude of, “I’m better than you because, unlike you I follow Christ’s teaching of love and I’m not a Pharisee” is just as prideful as someone who looks down on a sinner for not following the teaching of the Church.
 
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