Should liberals leave the catholic church?

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buffalo:
Most liberals do not attend Mass weekly.
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Stats please?
 
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JamesG:
Most liberals don’t even qualify as christians let alone catholics because they reject the Gospel and the words of Jesus.
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Oh brother! :eek:
 
I think most people make decisions without adhering to an agenda. It’s just that their viewpoints tend to agree with one side or the other of whatever spectrum you are discussing. People who disagree with them, usually accuse their opponent of being an “extremist”.

A “moderate” by definition would take a middle ground or agree with both sides at different times, depending on the issue. Most people have some moderate views about something.

But more importantly: IT WAS A JOKE! PLEASE RELAX!
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mikew262:
A “moderate” is a person who thinks for himself/herself, and makes a decision based on the issue at hand, not on whether they adhere to a liberal or a conservative agenda.
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vern humphrey:
The essential feature of the Magisterium is that it is infallible. When one disagrees with that, one rejects the Magisterium.
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Only part of it is considered infallible, if I remember right.
 
Walt Oliver:
The use of ill defined labels such as “liberal”, “conservative” and “moderate” in this thread is creating problems. Please be a little more descriptive so that you can quit discussing definitions and get back to the original topic (which unfortunately includes one of those labels). If you can’t reach a common ground for discussion, the thread will have to be closed. Thanks for your cooperation.

Walt
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Excuse my posts, if out of line. I posted before I saw your warning.
 
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Troy7:
Liberal Catholicism and Conservative Catholicism by themselves serve nobody. They both contain elements of truth. But until they mingle together and create a MODERATE Catholicism then we arent going to be anywhere approaching perfection and oneness.

Good find on that article Penny!

When Captain Kirk was split in 2, he realized he couldnt survive, cause his “good” nature was too wishy washy and couldnt take a stand on anything; while his “bad” nature was too self indulgent…they needed BOTH to make a whole. I am catholic, I am a moderate in my orthodoxy and people are just going to have to accept that we are in great numbers and make up the church…yes…EVEN after reading all the documents. Can one expect less when even Bishops and Priests cannot cede on all points? Some are bad, some are good and most are in the middle.

And this doesnt in any way align me (as much the Orthodox want to pigeon hole us) into siding with gay marriage, abortion, etc. for me some are black and white while there are layers to be found within which are certainly grey. And in those grey areas God exists maybe even more in those areas of black and white, this or that, orthodox or unorthodox, rejector or disagreer…etc. Sorry, cant fit God into those neat little boxes, columns etc. For many things yes we can…but for many more, no way no how
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Good post! 👍

PS: Hello to a fellow Trekie! 😃
 
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mikew262:
Stats please?
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I will dig them up. The numbers came from the last election. Basically if you went to church weekly you voted for Bush if you didn’t Kerry got your vote. Google it and you will see.
 
Liberalism & Modernism BOTH ROOTS OF EVIL have been condemned by every Pope until the 60’s. These are roots of EVIL because:

LIBERALISM= Is this(situation) against my rights? Or does this (situation) make ME happy?

MODERNISM= Change is necessary for MODERN times which leads to liberalism!

Both are examples of MAN’S DIGNITY put before GOD!!, and they are therefore SINS.

Just because the group goes one way does not mean its right, remember the people of “BAAL”?
 
Penny Plain:
So a liberal (in the sense of this thread) is somebody who supports the culture of death?
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did you not read what I said?

The other problem with liberals is that they do have any ability to comprehend. They might be able to “Read” the bible and the Gospel but they only listen to what they want to hear.

This is why Jesus spoke in parables. The people would not listen so he had no other choice.
 
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JamesG:
The other problem with liberals is that they do have any ability to comprehend. They might be able to “Read” the bible and the Gospel but they only listen to what they want to hear.
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Are the gratuitous insults really necessary?

For the poster who suggested this definition:
LIBERALISM= Is this(situation) against my rights?
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Do you also believe that Catholics have a right to a particular type of liturgy? If so, is it liberalism to assert that right?
 
Penny Plain:
Are the gratuitous insults really necessary?

For the poster who suggested this definition:

Do you also believe that Catholics have a right to a particular type of liturgy? If so, is it liberalism to assert that right?
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Catholics have a right to a true liturgy not someone’s innovation.
 
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mikew262:
A “moderate” is a person who thinks for himself/herself, and makes a decision based on the issue at hand, not on whether they adhere to a liberal or a conservative agenda.
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I don’t think I know of anyone who doesn’t think for themself?

Are you saying that people that follow the churches teachings don’t think for themselves?

The problem is that Liberals only listen to what they want to hear. They only accept the Gospel when it is not in conflict with their modern secular life that they love so much.

Give me one reason how you can reject one word of the Gospel and still call yourself a Christian?

Liberals… if you think for yourself then please explain to me why you only listen to ‘some’ of the teachings of Christ and not all?

If Christ came today (like he did in the past ) it would be liberals that would spit on him and shout for his crucifixion. They would hide behind democracy just like the Romans did.

You can keep democracy OUT of the church thank you. for it was democracy that put christ to death!
 
Penny Plain:
Are the gratuitous insults really necessary?

For the poster who suggested this definition:

Do you also believe that Catholics have a right to a particular type of liturgy? If so, is it liberalism to assert that right?
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There is no insult. just the truth. Liberalism is when you say, “it is ok if you don’t accept all church teachings”

The problem is that this also means that you are rejecting the Gospel.

why can’t Liberals just accept the fact that you are either a weed or the wheat of the field. There is no midle ground.

Liberals should ask themselves. “Based on the gospel and the life of christ am I child of God?” Can I be a child of God if I reject some of his teachings?
 
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buffalo:
Catholics have a right to a true liturgy not someone’s innovation.
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Okay. So if liberals are those who assert their own rights (G.C.'s definition, not mine), does that make you a liberal, Buffalo?
 
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JamesG:
There is no insult. just the truth. Liberalism is when you say, “it is ok if you don’t accept all church teachings”

…

Liberals should ask themselves. “Based on the gospel and the life of christ am I child of God?” Can I be a child of God if I reject some of his teachings?
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Another definition. Excellent. Now we are getting somewhere.

I thought, though, that the entire problem with liberals was that they were asking themselves questions and answering them for themselves. Did you mean to say, “Liberals should ask the Church whether, based on the Gospel and the life of Christ, am I a child of God?”
 
JSmitty2005 said:
“…the very root of philosophical liberalism is an erroneous affirmation of the autonomy of the individual in his activity, his motivation and the exercise of his liberty.” –Pope Paul VI
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Considering that this is from a pope, shall we consider this to be the best definition?
 
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buffalo:
Catholics have a right to a true liturgy not someone’s innovation.
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👍

“Is it a problem to permit today again the Latin Mass which was for so long a time the standard?” - Cardinal Darío Castrillon-Hoyos
 
Penny Plain:
Another definition. Excellent. Now we are getting somewhere.

I thought, though, that the entire problem with liberals was that they were asking themselves questions and answering them for themselves. Did you mean to say, “Liberals should ask the Church whether, based on the Gospel and the life of Christ, am I a child of God?”
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No they should ask themself that. Most liberals reject the Gospel and they don’t even know it. They claim that they are only rejecting the church. The truth is they are usually recting the word of christ directly, but their ignorance is bliss.

We all need to humble ourself before the lord and accept that we are most likely totally wrong. When you do that you will realize that the only chance you have to be saved is to try your best to accept the teachings of the Church and the Gospel.
The reason for that is just like the NT says, “This worlds wisdom, mans wisdom is foolishness!”

First take your own wisdom and put it in the trash. Only then you can start to learn and come closer to God.
 
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