Should our daughter be an altar girl??

[mullenpm]

Lee M,

Actually, for a man to be a Deacon in the RC church is a wonderful thing; and, if a married man became a widower at some point in time he could go on to become a priest, I believe.

But, all one has to do to see the joy that a Deacon has in serving at Mass is to watch the Daily Mass on EWTN when Deacon Bill Steltemeier participates. He assists the priest, wears a proper vestment, and reads the Gospel.

I don’t advocate sitting in a pew and being bored because how could someone sitting in a pew and praying be bored.

 

[mullenpm]

What exactly does an “altar boy or girl” do at Mass?

In our church we do not have “altar boys”; the servers are adult Sacristans.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Actually, for a man to be a Deacon in the RC church is a wonderful thing; and, if a married man became a widower at some point in time he could go on to become a priest, I believe.

According to the Vatican (see here):

1. The specific vocation to the permanent Diaconate presupposes the stability of this Order. Hence ordination to the Priesthood of non-married or widowed deacons must always be a very rare exception, and only for special and grave reasons.

 

[mullenpm]

Thank you Just Lurking - that is good to know; but, even so, being a Deacon is a wonderful thing.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

What exactly does an “altar boy or girl” do at Mass?

In our church we do not have “altar boys”; the servers are adult Sacristans.

I have seen adult Sacristans on weekday masses, nothing wrong with that.

Wikipedia summarizes it pretty well, we are talking the modern form here. Both boys and girls do this very well all across the region.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altar_server

* Gathering: Acolytes may carry the processional cross and candles (flambeaux) at the front of the gathering procession. Others may carry incense and a thurible.
* Proclamation of the Gospel: If it is a regional habit, flambeaus and/or incense can be carried in procession to the Pulpit. **I have also seen them hold candles on either side during the Gospel reading**
* Offertory: When the priest receiving these gifts, Acolytes assist him by carrying them.
* Preparation of the chalice: Acolytes present the cruets of water and wine for the deacon or priest to pour in the chalice.
* Lavabo: An Acolyte administers the water to the priest as he ritually washes his hands.
* Liturgy of the Eucharist: Acolytes ring altar bell at the unveiling of the chalice veil and both elevations of the species. **Varies by parish, not all parishes ring bells**
* Ending procession: When the priest and the Acolytes leave the altar, again the processional cross is carried, perhaps with flambeaux.

 

[FAB]

Let her serve!!!

Today is the feast of St. Martha who is honored as a servant to Jesus.
The church recongizes the important role women have in the church beyond laundering altar cloths.
I have watch many girls develop into young woman as altar servers. They devolop a true understanding of the mystery of the mass and many continue as EMHC, lectors, and other continuing services to the church.
I see the same with young men. This argument that only boys should serve so they will become priest is a straw dog.
Their service and love of faith is important, not gender.

Peace,
FAB

 

[Lee_M]

Lee M,

Actually, for a man to be a Deacon in the RC church is a wonderful thing; and, if a married man became a widower at some point in time he could go on to become a priest, I believe.

But, all one has to do to see the joy that a Deacon has in serving at Mass is to watch the Daily Mass on EWTN when Deacon Bill Steltemeier participates. He assists the priest, wears a proper vestment, and reads the Gospel.

I don’t advocate sitting in a pew and being bored because how could someone sitting in a pew and praying be bored.

I wrote that post as a little sarcasm. Someone suggested that the girl shouldn’t be a server because she will become bored and frustrated because she cannot advance. I find that to not be a very good reason not to serve. Again I was trying to get my point across even if altar serving is as far as she could go, there would be no reason to be bored from it.

 

[snhs]

The church recongizes the important role women have in the church beyond laundering altar cloths.
I have watch many girls develop into young woman as altar servers. They devolop a true understanding of the mystery of the mass and many continue as EMHC, lectors, and other continuing services to the church.
I see the same with young men. This argument that only boys should serve so they will become priest is a straw dog.
Their service and love of faith is important, not gender.

Peace,
FAB

The Church has recognised that role for several centuries. It doesn’t necessarily follow that they should be serving in exactly the same way as men.

That tends to happen when girls grow up, although it happens with both Altar girls and girls who have never been Altar girls. Not quite sure how that supports your position.

And numerous other women and girls somehow managed to develop that understanding without becoming Altar girls in the several centuries when they were not allowed. Including several Saints and a few Doctors of the Church.

Interesting how you recast the argument here “This argument that only boys should serve so they will become priest is a straw dog.”. The topic isn’t about whether ‘only boys should serve’ is it? Service is open to both boys and girls. That doesn’t mean everyone should be allowed to become an Altar server. In fact the Vatican has specifically given the power to any Priest to prevent girls from Altar serving while praising the continuation of boys serving at the Altar.

How is it a Straw dog? Surely you accept that only boys can become Priests? Surveys have shown that a vast majority of Priests have been Altar boys. Can you therefore deny that it makes sense to maximise the number of Altar boys, if need be to the exclusion of Altar girls, on the basis that only boys can become Priests?

Every advantage which people can put forward as coming from a girl becoming an Altar server can and has been gained in previous centuries by women in other ways just as effective if not more so. I would respectfully submit that it shouldn’t play a part in the OP’s deliberations.

 

[whatevergirl]

Our 11 year old daughter wants to be an altar girl, I am against it. I guess I’m “old school”, I think it should only be for boys and young men. She has a classmate (also an eleven year old), her best friend who serves at Mass. I’m not sure if our daughter wants to serve Mass because her friend is doing it or because she really wants to. What do you think?

My dd served from age 9 to 11, and then we moved to a new state. She loved it, didn’t do it because her friends were doing it, and became closer to Christ through it. I can see where your hesitance might come in, with her friend happening to serve also–and if you feel that it’s reserved for boys only, maybe that is something to discuss with her. But, if she truly expresses deep interest and feels ‘called’ to serving in this way, then I would definitely let her.

 

[whatevergirl]

Let her serve!!!

Today is the feast of St. Martha who is honored as a servant to Jesus.
The church recongizes the important role women have in the church beyond laundering altar cloths.
I have watch many girls develop into young woman as altar servers. They devolop a true understanding of the mystery of the mass and many continue as EMHC, lectors, and other continuing services to the church.
I see the same with young men. This argument that only boys should serve so they will become priest is a straw dog.
Their service and love of faith is important, not gender.

Peace,
FAB

I tend to agree…while I think there could be a connection made for boys taking an interest in becoming priests, due to their closeness to the mass. It isn’t so much in that girls should be dissuaded from being altar servers, as much as parishes (and we parents) need to encourage our sons to become altar servers as well. In both cases, a girl or boy could be greater drawn to the life in the clergy, and men being very much needed now more than ever in the priesthood, as it is so dwindling in numbers.

I have seen arguments on this board though, talking about how if girls are serving, this can often offset a boy from wishing to serve, because he doesn’t see the same value in it if girls are serving. That is something that should be dispelled at home, because men are called to be priests–women will never be priests, nor should they be. I believe that in altar serving, a child could be called to serve, and the boys would be drawn to joining the seminary, as they grow closer to Christ through serving at mass–yet, I can also see women being more drawn to becoming nuns, in serving at Mass. The two genders while serving together, shouldn’t offset the other’s future plans…both would take different paths from the same experience. Never quite understood the argument that if girls serve, that is the reason why boys are not stepping up.

 

[FAB]

How is it a Straw dog? Surely you accept that only boys can become Priests? Surveys have shown that a vast majority of Priests have been Altar boys. Can you therefore deny that it makes sense to maximise the number of Altar boys, if need be to the exclusion of Altar girls, on the basis that only boys can become Priests?
.

The augument seems to be that if only boys are allowed to serve, there would be more priest, that some how having girls serve on the altar is watering down that number. Since there is no surveys to show that to be case, that’s why from that stand point is a straw dog.
The truth is that there is a drop in all vocations, just not the priest hood. The reasons would have to be shared on a different thread. But what every means can be used to bring individuals closer to Jesus, should be used and service on the altar is one way.
In my parish, if it were not for our girls that serve, at some masses, there would be none. I’m not certain of the reason for the lack of boys to serve, but I do not see that it’s because girls are allowed to serve. So as far as I’m concerned, to more the better.

Peace,
FAB

 

[snhs]

I tend to agree…while I think there could be a connection made for boys taking an interest in becoming priests, due to their closeness to the mass. It isn’t so much in that girls should be dissuaded from being altar servers, as much as parishes (and we parents) need to encourage our sons to become altar servers as well. In both cases, a girl or boy could be greater drawn to the life in the clergy, and men being very much needed now more than ever in the priesthood, as it is so dwindling in numbers.

…Never quite understood the argument that if girls serve, that is the reason why boys are not stepping up.

(Bold added)

I wonder if that slip betrays your true view. As things stand in the Catholic Church only males may become members of the clergy, and my understanding is that the Church does not have the authority to change that.

Little boys, for the most part, do not like doing the same things as little girls. Hence why you very seldom see young boys playing with barbie dolls or young girls playing with action men.

If boys start to perceive altar serving as a ‘girls thing’ and see 5 or 6 girls, and few if any boys, what impression do you think they’re going to get of Altar serving? Are they going to come away thinking its something they want to be doing like Basketball or American Football or are they going to come away thinking its something they probably don’t want to do? If on a Sunday they see 4 or 5 older boys and 1 or 2 near their own age do you just think that maybe they’re more likely to see that as something they want to be involved with?

The augument seems to be that if only boys are allowed to serve, there would be more priest, that some how having girls serve on the altar is watering down that number. Since there is no surveys to show that to be case, that’s why from that stand point is a straw dog.
The truth is that there is a drop in all vocations, just not the priest hood. The reasons would have to be shared on a different thread. But what every means can be used to bring individuals closer to Jesus, should be used and service on the altar is one way.

In my parish, if it were not for our girls that serve, at some masses, there would be none. I’m not certain of the reason for the lack of boys to serve, but I do not see that it’s because girls are allowed to serve. So as far as I’m concerned, to more the better.

Straw man argument defined as “A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.[1] To “set up a straw man” or “set up a straw man argument” is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent’s actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent’s position)…It is occasionally called a …straw dog fallacy”. By that definition I don’t think it is, indeed if anyone is using a straw man I think it might be you.

I don’t think anyone has said, or is pretending to say, that banning Altar girls suddenly solves the shortage of Priests. To begin with I think everyone can agree it would be desirable that more people heard God’s call to religious vocations, especially the Priesthood. To that end we should be making all reasonable efforts to make boys in particular receptive to that calling.

Now your specific concern seems to be that people say “how having girls serve on the altar is watering down that number”, to my mind that is something which can be demonstrated. To begin with will you accept that there is approximately the same number of Masses in those places which allow Altar girls as there was prior to Altar girls being allowed? Given that the same number of Masses are taking place the Priest requires, on average, the same number of servers, do you accept that? Now prior to Altar girls being officially allowed, and pretending for a moment that some places didn’t have Altar girls despite them not being allowed, all of those places were filled by Altar boys. Now today how many Altar girls do you see at most Masses compared to the number of Altar boys? Lets say that its half and half precisely. Now if the number of Altar boys has remained constant then they serve at approximately half the number of Masses they would have previously. If we take the other scenario, perhaps more likely, and say that there are now more Altar girls than Altar boys then we have fewer boys, perhaps serving at the same number of Masses.

Now to whether that has influenced the number of Priests. Lets say that the conversion rate of Altar boys to Priests has remained exactly equal. Under the first scenario (half boys-half girls) we get exactly the same number of Priests as we before, but as they serve less often they are likely to be less open to hearing that calling. In short the chances of the rate remaining the same are doubtful. If we take the second we definitely end up with fewer. If we take it that the Altar boys to Priest rate has decreased because of other factors (society, way Priesthood is viewed etc). Then under both scenarios we get fewer Priests by that avenue.

Yet prior to the Pope giving permission for Altar girls in the 1990s there were somehow or other, more than likely, boys serving at those Masses? Unless there was something in the water 10-15 years ago which has caused an explosion of female births it seems your Parish is demonstrating the point. Altar girl numbers have increased exponentially, but the number of women going into Convents etc has declined. Altar boy numbers have declined, vocations to the Priesthood have declined. What can we learn from this? Well we can say with reasonable accuracy that becoming an Altar girl is not as effective at producing nuns now as it was at Priests not so long ago. We can also say that since the change to allow Altar girls it has, for whatever reason, been less effective at producing Priests.

 

[otjm]

I must agree with the responders who said that your daughter should not be an altar girl.

As one person said - she will grow bored or frustrated when she learns that there is no advancement for her in the RCC.

There is enough turmoil in the Anglican Church because of the very idea of women serving at the altar (sorry, I just cannot call them priests).

:knight2:

But there is advancement in the Catholic Church for women who feel called to serve God and the Church in a special way - they become nuns. Why is there such mindlock that if one serves, the automatic “advancement” is to priesthood? Does anyone recall that there are men who serve the church in a special way, who are not ordained? they are generally called “brothers”; they join an order depending on the charism of the order they are drawn to; or are they now invisible to all?

 

[whatevergirl]

But there is advancement in the Catholic Church for women who feel called to serve God and the Church in a special way - they become nuns. Why is there such mindlock that if one serves, the automatic “advancement” is to priesthood? Does anyone recall that there are men who serve the church in a special way, who are not ordained? they are generally called “brothers”; they join an order depending on the charism of the order they are drawn to; or are they now invisible to all?

That’s a good point. I guess to the poster who replied to me – I don’t liken this to football, or something like that, which for obvious physical reasons would cause a girl not to be able to play on the same field, same team as boys. I don’t think we can liken a ministry like altar serving to a secular club, or sports group. It is leagues away, and thus a parent should not encourage negative outlooks on altar serving with their sons, if there are girls in their parish involved. I have never seen the blend of girls and boys really being an issue in any parish I’ve belonged to…they all seem to be reverent, and humble in their roles. I also think that the priesthood is not being encouraged in families. The Church is there to support parents in encouraging vocations, but it’s not the Church’s respnsibility to bring young boys into seminary. That has to be encouraged at home, as well. So, I don’t think we should assume that because altar serving has been opened up to girls in some Dioceses, that this is the main reason we see the decline in the priesthood.

 

[otjm]

(Bold added)

Little boys, for the most part, do not like doing the same things as little girls. Hence why you very seldom see young boys playing with barbie dolls or young girls playing with action men.

We are not talking about little boys and little girls; we are talking about children generally 6th grade and up. Interestingly, girls seem eager to serve, and boys don’t, which parallels adult attendance for, oh, say the last few centuries (it is no hidden knowledge that adult women are more likely to attend Mass regularly than adult men, and this has been so for a long, long time). Yes, it sould be argued that having boys only serve will help them to show up to Mass as adults; and it can just as easily be argued that previous experience doesn’t suggest it had much effect. Way more boys served than became priests.

If boys start to perceive altar serving as a ‘girls thing’ and see 5 or 6 girls, and few if any boys, what impression do you think they’re going to get of Altar serving? Are they going to come away thinking its something they want to be doing like Basketball or American Football or are they going to come away thinking its something they probably don’t want to do? If on a Sunday they see 4 or 5 older boys and 1 or 2 near their own age do you just think that maybe they’re more likely to see that as something they want to be involved with?

I hardly think that serving Mass is something I would compare to football or baseball. The biggest problem is in parenting; parents need to lead, and set the rules; not ask the children what their pleasure is and acquiesce. I had girls (who served). Had I had a boy, and he protested, his first impression would be that he wasn’t asked, but was told; if he defied me, the second impression would be on the seat of his pants.

Actually, there is an increase of recent to orders of nuns who have not decided to look like the next door social worker or public school teacher. Orders which have community life (as opposed to nuns living in apartments all over), orders which still have some distinctive dress that sets them apart (as opposed to a piece of jewelry that may or may not be identifiable as a cross, or something religious), orders which have a clear charism (as opposed to “do your own thing”) are increasing in vocations. Those that are struggling for survival with what appear to be angry feminazis are dying out. And somewhat the same is occuring with the orders of priests; those who seem to know who they are and why they are there are seeing growth; those that can’t seem to follow the Magisterium if they had a leash attached are not. And neither can be related back to altar serving in any coherent manner.

Areas of the country which are seeing significant increases to the diocesan priesthood are areas of the country that tend, overall, to be more socially conservative, less materialistic, less individualistic, and less infected with the general level of hedonism exhibited in other areas of the country. There are so many reasons we have had a decrease in vocations that it is painful to see the Church looking at the issue of who serves Mass in grade school or high school as if that was somehow a panacea to the whole issue. Familes which used to be big - 4, 5, 6 and more children had much less of a social and emotional issue of a son going off to celibate life than a family that has their precious designer children; 1, maybe 2, and if they are not of both sexes, maybe, just posssibly a 3rd. And those with 3 kids take the eat for “overpopulating” the world.

We no longer live in the 50’s with Leave it to Beaver on TV; now we have trash TV with celebrated homosexuals on prime time, and the sluttiness of MTV, to mention nothing of what comes on cable. Celibacy is at best sneared at; with projections of 80+% of people approaching the altar in marriage having had sexual intercourse before marriage, almost as a matter of course, precious few see the value in celibate life that a priest or nun lives.

The issue is not about who serves, and if little boys serve, how many will become priests. It is a far deadlier game out there. Any child who wants to serve is first and foremost in Mass, not playing in a soccer tournament. Little girls should arrange flowers or do the laundry… little girls who serve are going to turn into feminazis demanding ordination… little girls are going to drive little boys away…

If Rome thinks that having only boys serving, and so restricts the issue, then fine; but Rome may think many things, and it helps at times to look at an issue further than skin deep. I think Rome, in this instance, is fiddling while the city burns. I have no desire to insist that girls must serve - they didn’t when I was young. But neither do I automatically buy into the issue that having boys serve (only) is going to make any significant dent in the issue of vocations. When 21% of our youth - those 18 to 30 - are attending Mass on a regular basis, we have way more problems than who serves Mass. Oh, and those ststistics are from CARA. 31 to 43 afe is better - they are all the way up to 22%.

Meanwhile, the city burns…

 

[whatevergirl]

We are not talking about little boys and little girls; we are talking about children generally 6th grade and up. Interestingly, girls seem eager to serve, and boys don’t, which parallels adult attendance for, oh, say the last few centuries (it is no hidden knowledge that adult women are more likely to attend Mass regularly than adult men, and this has been so for a long, long time). Yes, it sould be argued that having boys only serve will help them to show up to Mass as adults; and it can just as easily be argued that previous experience doesn’t suggest it had much effect. Way more boys served than became priests.

I hardly think that serving Mass is something I would compare to football or baseball. The biggest problem is in parenting; parents need to lead, and set the rules; not ask the children what their pleasure is and acquiesce. I had girls (who served). Had I had a boy, and he protested, his first impression would be that he wasn’t asked, but was told; if he defied me, the second impression would be on the seat of his pants.

Actually, there is an increase of recent to orders of nuns who have not decided to look like the next door social worker or public school teacher. Orders which have community life (as opposed to nuns living in apartments all over), orders which still have some distinctive dress that sets them apart (as opposed to a piece of jewelry that may or may not be identifiable as a cross, or something religious), orders which have a clear charism (as opposed to “do your own thing”) are increasing in vocations. Those that are struggling for survival with what appear to be angry feminazis are dying out. And somewhat the same is occuring with the orders of priests; those who seem to know who they are and why they are there are seeing growth; those that can’t seem to follow the Magisterium if they had a leash attached are not. And neither can be related back to altar serving in any coherent manner.

Areas of the country which are seeing significant increases to the diocesan priesthood are areas of the country that tend, overall, to be more socially conservative, less materialistic, less individualistic, and less infected with the general level of hedonism exhibited in other areas of the country. There are so many reasons we have had a decrease in vocations that it is painful to see the Church looking at the issue of who serves Mass in grade school or high school as if that was somehow a panacea to the whole issue. Familes which used to be big - 4, 5, 6 and more children had much less of a social and emotional issue of a son going off to celibate life than a family that has their precious designer children; 1, maybe 2, and if they are not of both sexes, maybe, just posssibly a 3rd. And those with 3 kids take the eat for “overpopulating” the world.

We no longer live in the 50’s with Leave it to Beaver on TV; now we have trash TV with celebrated homosexuals on prime time, and the sluttiness of MTV, to mention nothing of what comes on cable. Celibacy is at best sneared at; with projections of 80+% of people approaching the altar in marriage having had sexual intercourse before marriage, almost as a matter of course, precious few see the value in celibate life that a priest or nun lives.

The issue is not about who serves, and if little boys serve, how many will become priests. It is a far deadlier game out there. Any child who wants to serve is first and foremost in Mass, not playing in a soccer tournament. Little girls should arrange flowers or do the laundry… little girls who serve are going to turn into feminazis demanding ordination… little girls are going to drive little boys away…

If Rome thinks that having only boys serving, and so restricts the issue, then fine; but Rome may think many things, and it helps at times to look at an issue further than skin deep. I think Rome, in this instance, is fiddling while the city burns. I have no desire to insist that girls must serve - they didn’t when I was young. But neither do I automatically buy into the issue that having boys serve (only) is going to make any significant dent in the issue of vocations. When 21% of our youth - those 18 to 30 - are attending Mass on a regular basis, we have way more problems than who serves Mass. Oh, and those ststistics are from CARA. 31 to 43 afe is better - they are all the way up to 22%.

Meanwhile, the city burns…

Good points

 

[snhs]

We are not talking about little boys and little girls; we are talking about children generally 6th grade and up. Interestingly, girls seem eager to serve, and boys don’t, which parallels adult attendance for, oh, say the last few centuries (it is no hidden knowledge that adult women are more likely to attend Mass regularly than adult men, and this has been so for a long, long time). Yes, it sould be argued that having boys only serve will help them to show up to Mass as adults; and it can just as easily be argued that previous experience doesn’t suggest it had much effect. Way more boys served than became priests.

I hardly think that serving Mass is something I would compare to football or baseball. The biggest problem is in parenting; parents need to lead, and set the rules; not ask the children what their pleasure is and acquiesce. I had girls (who served). Had I had a boy, and he protested, his first impression would be that he wasn’t asked, but was told; if he defied me, the second impression would be on the seat of his pants.

Actually, there is an increase of recent to orders of nuns who have not decided to look like the next door social worker or public school teacher. Orders which have community life (as opposed to nuns living in apartments all over), orders which still have some distinctive dress that sets them apart (as opposed to a piece of jewelry that may or may not be identifiable as a cross, or something religious), orders which have a clear charism (as opposed to “do your own thing”) are increasing in vocations. Those that are struggling for survival with what appear to be angry feminazis are dying out. And somewhat the same is occuring with the orders of priests; those who seem to know who they are and why they are there are seeing growth; those that can’t seem to follow the Magisterium if they had a leash attached are not. And neither can be related back to altar serving in any coherent manner.

Areas of the country which are seeing significant increases to the diocesan priesthood are areas of the country that tend, overall, to be more socially conservative, less materialistic, less individualistic, and less infected with the general level of hedonism exhibited in other areas of the country. There are so many reasons we have had a decrease in vocations that it is painful to see the Church looking at the issue of who serves Mass in grade school or high school as if that was somehow a panacea to the whole issue. Familes which used to be big - 4, 5, 6 and more children had much less of a social and emotional issue of a son going off to celibate life than a family that has their precious designer children; 1, maybe 2, and if they are not of both sexes, maybe, just posssibly a 3rd. And those with 3 kids take the eat for “overpopulating” the world.

…

If Rome thinks that having only boys serving, and so restricts the issue, then fine; but Rome may think many things, and it helps at times to look at an issue further than skin deep. I think Rome, in this instance, is fiddling while the city burns. I have no desire to insist that girls must serve - they didn’t when I was young. But neither do I automatically buy into the issue that having boys serve (only) is going to make any significant dent in the issue of vocations. When 21% of our youth - those 18 to 30 - are attending Mass on a regular basis, we have way more problems than who serves Mass. Oh, and those ststistics are from CARA. 31 to 43 afe is better - they are all the way up to 22%.

Meanwhile, the city burns…

That may be true for your Diocese. In mine we normally start Altar serving after First Communion, currently 8 when I started 7. The fact remains at 11 they are just as likely to avoid ‘girls activities’.We are not aiming to get every single Altar boy to become a Priest nor has that ever been the aim, I think I see a straw man before me and the wind is starting to blow.

Way to ignore the ‘right to free speech’ stuff. Not that the fact he would, hypothetically, be holding a view which the Church endorses as being valid would stop you.

Indeed traditional orders, both Priests and Nuns are doing well. As are Diocese which retained all male servers, such as Lincoln, Nebraska, not that them retaining the tradition of all male servers has anything to do with it. You know I think I may see a link high number of male Altar servers = higher number of vocations to the Priesthood compared to Diocese with Altar girls. And for some reason I rather doubt many of those Nuns joining traditional orders were Altar girls.

So all of those mothers and fathers who joyfully gave their blessing to their sons becoming Priests are now dismissed because it was only one out of X-number of children?

If you want to see a city burning look at the Lambeth conference. Wonder what year they first allowed Altar girls?

The fact is that if a small proportion of young people are attending Mass it is all the more important to encourage boys to consider the Priesthood, you make it immeasurably more difficult to do that when you turn Altar serving into a demonstration of equal opportunities.

 

[snhs]

That’s a good point. I guess to the poster who replied to me – I don’t liken this to football, or something like that, which for obvious physical reasons would cause a girl not to be able to play on the same field, same team as boys. I don’t think we can liken a ministry like altar serving to a secular club, or sports group. It is leagues away, and thus a parent should not encourage negative outlooks on altar serving with their sons, if there are girls in their parish involved. I have never seen the blend of girls and boys really being an issue in any parish I’ve belonged to…they all seem to be reverent, and humble in their roles.

And again we have the usual double standard. In any group/activity where boys have a physical/other advantage they should be kept separate yet in something like serving the Church where girls could be said to have an advantage they must be open to having girls (at least for all lay ministries)?

No one is trying to belittle the Mass, for it is immeasurably more important than sports, indeed all activities. It may have escaped your notice that while Football is something boys do enjoy going to Mass is often less so. And why is that? Could it be that in Football there is a clear sense of fraternity created by working towards a common purpose through physical activity? Could it be the sense of camaraderie at being part of something bigger? Or the clear sense of order that comes from almost exactly the same sequence of actions each week?

All of these other factors have a part, changing societal attitudes, smaller families, less encouragement from parents, less (name removed by moderator)ut from Priests and many other things. But when we were already battling against all these other diverse factors we really shot ourselves in the foot by allowing Altar girls in the first place when having Altar boys was a tried and tested method of teaching young men about their faith and forming them into people who would be more receptive to whatever calling God gave them. And it is something which, unlike these other factors, the Vatican can very easily correct.

 

[FAB]

No one is trying to belittle the Mass, for it is immeasurably more important than sports, indeed all activities. It may have escaped your notice that while Football is something boys do enjoy going to Mass is often less so. And why is that? Could it be that in Football there is a clear sense of fraternity created by working towards a common purpose through physical activity? Could it be the sense of camaraderie at being part of something bigger? Or the clear sense of order that comes from almost exactly the same sequence of actions each week?

Get real. Boys play football because it is a national past time. Some of this may apply, but it is mainly a physical activity to which many young man are attracted. The same can be said about any organization from scouts to the band.
Part of the reason all kids, just not boys don’t like mass is that they don’t have a full understanding of it. They understand running a ball down the field. Through service on the altar, for both genders, they can develop in understanding and appriciation.

All of these other factors have a part, changing societal attitudes, smaller families, less encouragement from parents, less (name removed by moderator)ut from Priests and many other things. But when we were already battling against all these other diverse factors we really shot ourselves in the foot by allowing Altar girls in the first place when having Altar boys was a tried and tested method of teaching young men about their faith and forming them into people who would be more receptive to whatever calling God gave them. And it is something which, unlike these other factors, the Vatican can very easily correct.

If serving on the altar is as you say a tired and true method, for boys, why not offer the same for girls at this age group? Many of the young women who have served in my parish have done so until they leave to go to college. They view their service as a true service to God. Why, would any one want to deny them this faith formation in their lives?

Peace
FAB

 

[Michelle_R_1965]

I think women in general should have more active rolls in the church, maybe allowing her to serve will strengthen her commitment. This should be nurtured .