Should our daughter be an altar girl??

[GemmaRose]

Allow her to serve.

1. 
   *]If the Church permits it, and the bishop permits it, and the pastor permits it, there is no prohibition.
   
   ]Has anyone thought that denying their daughter the opportunity to be an altar server could result in her eventually turning against the Church? ("If Dad’s Church doesn’t want me, I’ll find a Church that does.”)*
   
   Just a thought.
   
   *]The argument that girls serving will discourage boys to grow up and become priests is absurd. After all, it’s not like any parish will prohibit boys from serving and have only girls.
   
   *]The shortage of priests started long before female altar servers were allowed.
   
   *]The fantasy of boys not choosing the priesthood is just that: a fantasy.
   
   This fantasy is also a very tired attempt at blaming the world’s problems on females.
   
   The real problem with the shortage of priests is parents. Yes, parents.
   
   How many “practicing” Catholic couples have only one or two children. They don’t *want * their son to become a priest because they want him to carry on the family name.
   
   Hasn’t anyone noticed that most new vocations come from certain cultural groups who are more open to life (as the Church teaches) and therefore have more children?
   
   Additionally, in our power-hungry, materialistic society, most parents start telling children at a very young age to grow up and become “successful” - become a doctor, become a lawyer, study business so you can eventually become a CEO, work on Wall Street, etc. How many seriously discuss with their children the priesthood or religious life?
   
   No, it’s just easier to blame the vocation crisis on innocent 11 year old girls.
   
   (P.S. to Pro Vobis - If you don’t like the font I choose to use, add me to you Ignore List and don’t read my posts.)

 

[whatevergirl]

And again we have the usual double standard. In any group/activity where boys have a physical/other advantage they should be kept separate yet in something like serving the Church where girls could be said to have an advantage they must be open to having girls (at least for all lay ministries)?

No one is trying to belittle the Mass, for it is immeasurably more important than sports, indeed all activities. It may have escaped your notice that while Football is something boys do enjoy going to Mass is often less so. And why is that? Could it be that in Football there is a clear sense of fraternity created by working towards a common purpose through physical activity? Could it be the sense of camaraderie at being part of something bigger? Or the clear sense of order that comes from almost exactly the same sequence of actions each week?

All of these other factors have a part, changing societal attitudes, smaller families, less encouragement from parents, less (name removed by moderator)ut from Priests and many other things. But when we were already battling against all these other diverse factors we really shot ourselves in the foot by allowing Altar girls in the first place when having Altar boys was a tried and tested method of teaching young men about their faith and forming them into people who would be more receptive to whatever calling God gave them. And it is something which, unlike these other factors, the Vatican can very easily correct.

There must be a reason why the Vatican doesn’t overrule the individual Diocese on the matter…I am offering opinion, and you are entitled to yours, too. But, I think it’s a stretch to blame the decrease of the priesthood solely on the fact that the number of altar servers these days seem to be more females. You seem to be putting a lot of emphasis on this one facet, as to the decrease in boys being interested in pursuing the priesthood.

 

[scylla]

I voted no.

It is certainly possible for a girl to serve and they are allowed due to the concessions made by Pope John Paul II to those pushing for altar girls.

Anyone who cares about the Priesthood of Christ should be in opposition to Altar Girls.

Why? Not because being an altar server is a right or something that should be allowed because of gender, since the Church is not a place to push for cultural equality, but to serve Christ. Our first call is to serve Christ and how to best serve Him before serving our own personal desires.

Since we need more Priests, we should use every factor that contributes to bringing more men to the Priesthood. This includes teaching against contraception, having faithful seminaries, upholding the dignity of the Priesthood, and promoting many altar boys. Every single one of these are factors which promote the Priesthood of Christ should be embraced and promoted, those that diminish which have been adopted recently should be repudiated.

I have two daughters and I feel it is an insult to their own dignity to even desire the Priesthood or serving as an Altar Girl as they do not need to do what boys do to be as good as boys are. They already are special in themselves and it insults girls\women to think that doing what men do make them equal. It is poor thinking and brings women down.

It is unfortunate that most feminists these days are brainwashed in thinking that doing what men do makes them equal instead of recognizing the inherent dignity of women as being women.

In Christ
Scylla

Saying yes would be betraying the Priesthood of Christ, insulting to the girl’s own dignity and promoting a silly thinking of power as opposed to serving Christ first.

 

[whatevergirl]

How is that insulting of her dignity? Does one really imagine that God looks at a girl as insulted in integrity when she serves on the altar? I don’t imagine that God looked at my daughter when she served as diminished in integrity.

But, I will say that this is the one topic that I can listen to both sides, and somewhat agree. I can see the side for not wanting girls to serve and the side where it is a positive thing.
I would say that having a daughter who served and who felt truly humbled in doing so, might make me a bit biased. HOWEVER, if girls were to be suddenly restricted from serving, I wouldn’t protest. It’s what the Church thinks that is best, so She must not think it is a negative thing to allow individual Dioceses to choose this for themselves. But, it’s just weird that I can see both sides and this is probably the only issue I feel that way on.

 

[Catholic90]

I voted let her serve.

At my parish, the most reliable servers are girls. The ones who call for the least substitutes are girls. The ones who “forget” the least are the girls.

If a boy does not hear a calling to be a priest because there was a girl serving on the altar next to him, then maybe being a priest isn’t his calling! I think God’s voice is pretty loud when he wants it to be, and I seriously doubt having a girl serve will deter a truly called boy!

And…at age 11, a boy may want to serve BECAUSE there is a girl up there! I know one of my sons always wanted to serve at that age when a particular girl was serving…

 

[Lee_M]

Saying yes would be betraying the Priesthood of Christ, insulting to the girl’s own dignity and promoting a silly thinking of power as opposed to serving Christ first.

Insulting to the girl’s own dignity and promoting a silly thinking of power?

When my daughter serves, she is serving Christ. She is reverent and wants to serve her Lord, Jesus Christ. She is not thinking about having Power. Where do you dream these things up. Altar serving is about serving the Lord, not about power. Betraying the priesthood. Oh please.

 

[Lee_M]

I voted let her serve.

At my parish, the most reliable servers are girls. The ones who call for the least substitutes are girls. The ones who “forget” the least are the girls.

If a boy does not hear a calling to be a priest because there was a girl serving on the altar next to him, then maybe being a priest isn’t his calling! I think God’s voice is pretty loud when he wants it to be, and I seriously doubt having a girl serve will deter a truly called boy!

And…at age 11, a boy may want to serve BECAUSE there is a girl up there! I know one of my sons always wanted to serve at that age when a particular girl was serving…

Yeah, I totally agree. I thought the calling to the priesthood was by the power of the Holy Spirit. But I guess some are suggesting that the POWER of these little girls are blocking that call.

 

[mar1ann3]

Absolutely NOT!

 

[Lepanto]

Let her serve!!!

Today is the feast of St. Martha who is honored as a servant to Jesus.
The church recongizes the important role women have in the church beyond laundering altar cloths.
I have watch many girls develop into young woman as altar servers. They devolop a true understanding of the mystery of the mass and many continue as EMHC, lectors, and other continuing services to the church.
I see the same with young men. This argument that only boys should serve so they will become priest is a straw dog.
Their service and love of faith is important, not gender.

Peace,
FAB

You’re missing the larger lesson of the Martha and Mary of Bethany story. Throughout history, the role of Martha’s sister, Mary, was always seen as greater. Whereas Martha was the “activist,” Mary was the “contemplative.”

Although Christ certainly honored St. Martha for her work and attentiveness, He clearly preferred St. Mary’s approach. That’s why contemplative nuns have been so revered throughout Catholic history.

Notice the exchange between Jesus and Martha: "She [Martha] had a sister called Mary, who also sat at Jesus’ feet and heard His word. But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she approached Him and said, ‘Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Therefore tell her to help me.’ And Jesus answered and said to her, ‘Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things. But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taken from her’ " (Luke 10:39-42).

 

[Story]

I have had to worry about this very question myself. I was raised with brothers who were all altar servers. One is an atheist, one fell away from the Church, one is barely active in it, and the fourth really finds no value to being there.

My sisters and I? I was not allowed, as at the time girls were not allowed up on the altar except the be a lector. By the time my first sister after me was old enough, she became an altar server. The other two never were.

I am the first of eight. We span over 25 years… and we carry a wide range of life experiences, but how we see things is pretty much on the same side…

In our church today, the boys serve the priest directly. They wear the traditional altar clothing. The girls bring up the cross in the procession, hold the candles during the gospel and share in the communion duty. So the idea is split, but in keeping with giving the boys that hands on training at the altar…

As for this “let her do something with the flowers or clean the Church…” charming. I hope you don’t think that is all she could be capable of doing…

I would not let my kids do anything pertaining to the altar till they could proove to me they could participate in the Mass as part of the Laity. Sing when you should sing, stand when you should stand, kneel when you should kneel, and say Amen when you should say Amen. Proove to me you can do it without prompt, and you can serve up there.

They couldn’t. They aren’t. That wasn’t a true calling for them, so they are in the pews. After all you are told you can test the Spirit to see if it is truely that.

As for how the girls can serve, they can be ushers and choir members. They can be hospitality greeters. As they get older, and if they still have a calling to serve, they can help coordinate the mass from the back. We have one woman int he back who receives all the instructions from the priest, and makes sure everything runs smoothly from the back. There is also teaching the young, CCD, assisting in other ministries, coordinating retreats, weekend visits and the like!

Can you tell what we do in our family? My dad was one of the main ushers when I was growing up. I had four brothers on the altar. My mother and I taught CCD, one sister assisted as a girl server, and the other two participated in mass as they were too young at the time. We now still have mom as a DRE and I have been teaching 18+ years, with the two littlest ones now grown some and teaching/aiding in CCD.

LOL, and to think I always thought the boys had it easy! I know the priest doesn’t

If she wishes to serve, let her. If you are not happy about it, it affects you spiritually as well, so find a happy medium somewhere.

Story

 

[THurifer2]

I am completely against female altar servers.

BUT since it is allowed AND she is expressing interest in it then I say let her do it.

I just hope that some day the church restores the male only altar server tradition. That way you wouldn’t be asking your question.

The role of “altar boy” was to foster a vocation to the priesthood.

Likewise
If Girls want to be Nuns then they should become members of the Blessed imelda society and hang around the sisters helping in the convent.

 

[snhs]

Get real. Boys play football because it is a national past time. Some of this may apply, but it is mainly a physical activity to which many young man are attracted. The same can be said about any organization from scouts to the band.
Part of the reason all kids, just not boys don’t like mass is that they don’t have a full understanding of it. They understand running a ball down the field. Through service on the altar, for both genders, they can develop in understanding and appriciation.

If serving on the altar is as you say a tired and true method, for boys, why not offer the same for girls at this age group? Many of the young women who have served in my parish have done so until they leave to go to college. They view their service as a true service to God. Why, would any one want to deny them this faith formation in their lives?

And why are they attracted to it? It goes beyond just seeing it on TV. It is because their older brothers play it, their dads played it when they were younger. Because they can be part of a group, something which goes beyond themselves which has a sense of fraternity. And yes it can be said about many other groups, but none so much as it once could have been said as Altar serving.

Because boys and girls are not the same. The same methods do not always apply. They do not have to do the same thing to be equal. In case you’ve not noticed the same argument you are attempting to apply here could be used for women being admitted to the Priesthood, after all why deny them “this faith formation in their lives” especially when they see it as “a true service to God”. There is a very good reason why Lord Bayden Powell in founding the Scout movement choose not to admit girls, indeed to set up a separate group for them instead of having a co-ed group.

 

[snhs]

There must be a reason why the Vatican doesn’t overrule the individual Diocese on the matter…I am offering opinion, and you are entitled to yours, too. But, I think it’s a stretch to blame the decrease of the priesthood solely on the fact that the number of altar servers these days seem to be more females. You seem to be putting a lot of emphasis on this one facet, as to the decrease in boys being interested in pursuing the priesthood.

Could you possibly show any part of this thread where someone has said that? I think you may just have provided another classic example of a straw man.

 

[snhs]

In our church today, the boys serve the priest directly. They wear the traditional altar clothing. The girls bring up the cross in the procession, hold the candles during the gospel and share in the communion duty. So the idea is split, but in keeping with giving the boys that hands on training at the altar…

Firstly I think there’s a document which says all of those serving should be wearing the same thing so all the servers should wear albs or all the servers should wear cassock and surplice.

Secondly the Processional Cross was traditionally carried by the subdeacon while the candles were one of the principal tasks of the Acolyte. Presumably the Church had a reason for assigning these tasks to the first of the major orders and the highest of the minor orders.

And…at age 11, a boy may want to serve BECAUSE there is a girl up there! I know one of my sons always wanted to serve at that age when a particular girl was serving…

Wonderful, so what was once a garden of vocations to the Priesthood has instead been reduced to a place to meet girls? Are you seriously putting this forward as a reason in support of Altar girls?

 

[terryobrien80]

Our 11 year old daughter wants to be an altar girl, I am against it. I guess I’m “old school”, I think it should only be for boys and young men…

Good for you!! Altar boys are suppsed to (hopefully) be being groomed for the priesthood. Altar girls cannot be. We need priests badly, and being an altar boy instills an interest in pursuing such a vocation.

Parents need to also tell there sons that the priesthood is a worthy vocation, instead of shoving the values of money, wealth and success down their throats, which makes the priesthood look like a last resort

 

[FAB]

You’re missing the larger lesson of the Martha and Mary of Bethany story. Throughout history, the role of Martha’s sister, Mary, was always seen as greater. Whereas Martha was the “activist,” Mary was the “contemplative.”

Although Christ certainly honored St. Martha for her work and attentiveness, He clearly preferred St. Mary’s approach. That’s why contemplative nuns have been so revered throughout Catholic history.

Notice the exchange between Jesus and Martha: "She [Martha] had a sister called Mary, who also sat at Jesus’ feet and heard His word. But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she approached Him and said, ‘Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Therefore tell her to help me.’ And Jesus answered and said to her, ‘Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things. But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taken from her’ " (Luke 10:39-42).

No I’m not missing the lesson. If every one in a parish were Mary, nothing would be done, if everyone were Marha, we would miss the lessons and love of Jesus. So there must be a balance between to two for each of us. Jesus himself calls us to services, with that service we bocome closer him. The lesson is also that for those who are called to service, should accept their role without complaint as to what someone else is doing or not doing. Each of us at times play both the roles of Matha and Mary.

Peace,
FAB

 

[FAB]

And why are they attracted to it? It goes beyond just seeing it on TV. It is because their older brothers play it, their dads played it when they were younger. Because they can be part of a group, something which goes beyond themselves which has a sense of fraternity. And yes it can be said about many other groups, but none so much as it once could have been said as Altar serving.

Because boys and girls are not the same. The same methods do not always apply. They do not have to do the same thing to be equal. In case you’ve not noticed the same argument you are attempting to apply here could be used for women being admitted to the Priesthood, after all why deny them “this faith formation in their lives” especially when they see it as “a true service to God”. There is a very good reason why Lord Bayden Powell in founding the Scout movement choose not to admit girls, indeed to set up a separate group for them instead of having a co-ed group.

I have been a scout leader for 25 years and understand Baden Powel’s reasoning for scouts. Originally, it was to train young men in basic survival skills to later become better soldiers for king and country. The movement to today, in the teen age group is co-ed and in many camps in this area the staff is at least a quarter female with female leaders. My point is that times change.
The argument that altar servers are grooming young men for the priesthood is no more true today than saying that the scouts are preparing young men to go to war.
The church changed and rigthtfully so. Each ministery on the altar has a function and training to perform that function. Altar servers are to assist the priest, a function that can be performed by either boys or girls.

Peace,
FAB

 

[Catholic90]

Wonderful, so what was once a garden of vocations to the Priesthood has instead been reduced to a place to meet girls? Are you seriously putting this forward as a reason in support of Altar girls?

No, but you seem so determined to pound home the idea that just because girls are doing something, no boys will want to do the same.

That is incorrect.

Boys will do something IF THEY ARE INTERESTED in it. My sons all loved serving. There were certain boys they served with that they did not particularly care serving with, because these boys did not take it seriously. This one particular girl also served quite a bit with one of my sons. He enjoyed serving with her, because she took it seriously, she was organized, she did not fidget, she participated. She was more mature than most boys that age, and my son appreciated that quality and had more in common with her than the boys.

Believe it or not, not all boys “hate” girls at this age. None of mine ever went through that stage.

 

[Joe_5859]

In college, my wife served as an altar server and it in no way led her to feel called to the priesthood. It only developed her understanding of and love for the liturgy (to the point that, ironically, she no longer thinks it’s appropriate to have female altar servers! ).

Anyway, I think the argument that female altar servers will somehow be standing in line to push for women’s ordination is a bit far reaching. I knew plenty of female altar servers in grade school, high school, and college, and not one of them ever wanted to be a priest. Not to say that it doesn’t or can’t happen. But to hear some people argue, you’d think it was a foregone conclusion that female altar servers will want to be priests. The problem isn’t in letting the girls be altar servers, the problem is in not catechizing them correctly on the nature of the priesthood.

I understand all the arguments in favor of “boys only” altar servers (and largely agree with them). In practice, though, it seems more difficult. If it’s a situation where the pastor does not allow girl altar servers, then it’s easy.

But in situations like that of the OP, where the parish allows it, it doesn’t seem so clear cut. It would seem to me that, whether she is an altar server, or whether her friends are altar servers, the ideological impact would be the same (she sees girls up there at the altar). So either way you’re going to have to make sure to catechize her on the nature of the all-male priesthood.

 

[Sure]

I fully support going back to boys only serving at the altar.

However, since the Church allows girls to serve, you should let your daughter serve.