Should Our Military Go On Strike?

[Elaine_s_Cross]

Thank you for all the kind words.

It would have been nice if Hitler’s troops had laid down their weapons rather than go into Poland and other countries. From what I’ve read, they were propagandized into believing they were doing the right thing for the “Fatherland” just as our brave men and women were propagandized by our government and Fox News.

I am proud of our troops, but ashamed of our government in Washington.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Elaine's Cross:

The question speaks for itself, dripping of red meat and blood for the hounds to attack.

Considering this action in military jargon is called mutiny and it is punishable by death in times of war. You answer the question now that you have the facts.

 

[Norwich]

Elaine's Cross:

Thank you for all the kind words.

It would have been nice if Hitler’s troops had laid down their weapons rather than go into Poland and other countries. From what I’ve read, they were propagandized into believing they were doing the right thing for the “Fatherland” just as our brave men and women were propagandized by our government and Fox News.

I am proud of our troops, but ashamed of our government in Washington.

My dear Elaine, you have just walked into the extreme right wing of the Republican Party, may I suggest in future the centre of the Collesium in about the year 50 AD would be a much safer bet. Some of this lot make Attila the Hun look like a social worker.

To prove my point, watch the retribution that is now coming my way!!!

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Norwich:

My dear Elaine, you have just walked into the extreme right wing of the Republican Party, may I suggest in future the centre of the Collesium in about the year 50 AD would be a much safer bet. Some of this lot make Attila the Hun look like a social worker.

To prove my point, watch the retribution that is now coming my way!!!

There wasn’t much happening to Christians in 50AD. The persecutions didn’t really pick up until 64 with Nero. Nice try though. Got to give a big hand to a self-made martyr.
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_55.gif

 

[Elaine_s_Cross]

gilliam:

So I was right, you feel “to hell with the Iraqis”…

not very Christian of you, this goes against the teachings of the Church you know.

Not at all. When were we appointed to be the world’s police department?

And if so, why not move troops to the Sudan where Christians are being slaughtered by Moslems in larger #'s than what was going on in Iraq before our invasion?

 

[Elaine_s_Cross]

Norwich:

. Some of this lot make Attila the Hun look like a social worker.

Your words are ironic since those who know my views on taxation, limited government, and government social programs have described be as being “to the right of Attila the Hun.”

I see war as being neither conservative nor liberal, but it appears many conservatives have adopted this was as their badge of honor.

It’s mystifying to me how sefl-described political “conservatives” defend the Bush Regime for it profligate spending and power-grabbing. I guess it’s OK since he’s a “conservative”.

 

[quijote]

Elaine's Cross:

I must admit that in addition to my normal nightly prayer requests … I also ask that our men and women in Iraq stand down and demand to be returned stateside.

How does the country song go?

“Sometimes I thank God, for unanswered prayers…”

Cheers

 

[quijote]

Elaine's Cross:

It would have been nice if **Hitler’s troops **had laid down their weapons rather than go into Poland and other countries. From what I’ve read, **they were propagandized **into believing they were doing the right thing for the “Fatherland” just as our brave men and women were propagandized by our government and Fox News.

I am proud of our troops, but ashamed of our government in Washington.

1. Hitler’s troops were propagandized not by the news media but by constant speeches and radio addresses by Hitler’s crazy folk. Also, many SS units were deployed to “keep morale up”.
2. Our troops are as propagandized by our government and Fox news as anyone who opposses the war is being propagandized by the “hate America first” protesters and CNN

cheers.

 

[jim_orr]

Elaine's Cross:

When were we appointed to be the world’s police department?

And if so, why not move troops to the Sudan where Christians are being slaughtered by Moslems in larger #'s than what was going on in Iraq before our invasion?

Americans have spoken; you lost, get over it and move on to another web site where they may think the ideas that come from a mind like yours make sense.

And while you are at it, why don’t YOU round up some of your friends and head over to Sudan and try to help the people there if they are more of a concern to you than the Iraqis instead of sitting back here in comfort and safety whining while Americans are risking and losing their lives for you to do so. If you are unwilling to risk your life for others then how about running for elected office on your ideas and see how many votes your thinking attracts. George W. Bush did and won again.:clapping:

Or stay on this board and open your mind to wisdom.

Jesus said, “No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends (or ‘those whom one loves’)”(John 15:13). Our military men and women are doing the job they are doing because of the love they have for others. You and I are recpients of the gift of their lives and their work. Your ungratefulness, misguided compassion and false love is disturbing and dishonors true love and goodness.

 

[Brad]

Elaine's Cross:

Thank you for all the kind words.

It would have been nice if Hitler’s troops had laid down their weapons rather than go into Poland and other countries. From what I’ve read, they were propagandized into believing they were doing the right thing for the “Fatherland” just as our brave men and women were propagandized by our government and Fox News.

I am proud of our troops, but ashamed of our government in Washington.

Comparing the Iraq invasion to that of Poland by Germany in WWII does not increase the credibility of your argument.

 

[Brad]

Norwich:

My dear Elaine, you have just walked into the extreme right wing of the Republican Party, may I suggest in future the centre of the Collesium in about the year 50 AD would be a much safer bet. Some of this lot make Attila the Hun look like a social worker.

To prove my point, watch the retribution that is now coming my way!!!

Apparently, 53 million Americans are extremely right. It couldn’t be that the left has lost touch with mainstream America (i.e. reality) - or could it?

 

[geezerbob]

After rethinking the original question, maybe they shouldn’t go on strike. Let’s see, we went on and struck Afghanistan and Iraq. If we can talk China into taking care of North Korea and Israel into doing what needs to be done to Syria and Iran, maybe there would be no need for our military to strike anyone for a few years.

 

[Darrel]

Elaine's Cross:

The question speaks for itself, dripping of red meat and blood for the hounds to attack.

I can see it now,

Let’s set up a picket line and we can secure the perimeter with tanks and helicopter support. The military should never have the option to say no to being the military. If anything like this ever happened it would be dispersed before it was even started. It makes no difference at this point if the war is right or not. It’s finished business and must be seen through, the only thing left to do is to support our troops and deal with a few people who can’t seem to stop sniveling about all of the ‘not nice stuff’.

-D

 

[La_Chiara]

Elaine–

Were you one of those Americans who went to Iraq before the war to “protect” the infrastructure with their lives? You know, the ones who stood guard outside of power plants. You remember, the ones who gave interviews to the newspapers and TV. The ones who were used by the Iraqi government as propaganda mouthpieces for their own purposes. You know, the ones who flew home to safety in the U.S. when it became clear that the U.S. was really going to invade Iraq.

Or, are you one of those Americans who are going to move to Canada once you find a nice job there because you just can not tolerate another 4 years under George Bush AND a Congress with Republican majorities in BOTH houses? (All democratically elected by the majority of those who chose to vote.)

Or, are you like certain other persistent poster–someone who is already living overseas, perhaps not even an American, but happy to voice your opinions in an offensive manner–I refer to your original post?

 

[APxr22]

Elaine's Cross:

I also ask that our men and women in Iraq stand down and demand to be returned stateside.

And I’ll pray that they don’t.
I served in Iraq and Afghanistan. The left-wing anti-war pacifism you and your liberal ilk spew has huge impact on the morale of deployed soldiers. But I bet that’s part of your commie plan.

 

[gilliam]

The Left will wake up one day, on the morning it is led down a dark corridor to a cell floored with rubber mats, sloping curiously down to a corner where a single drain waits to carry fluid away. The walls will be bare but for a banner with the words ‘Allah is Great’ opposite a video camera whose tripod legs are protected with a drop cloth. On a table will be a single knife. And then they will know. Then they will see.

belmontclub.blogspot.com/2005/02/explosive-ambulance.html

 

[otm]

elaine, I am really confused. Perhaps you could help me. What did you make of the elections? What did you make of the response of a people who had been under a dictator for years; who’s brothers, fathers, uncles, grandfathers, great uncle were sent into the meat grinder of a war that Saddam waged agains Iran; do you really feel these are a people who just want to be left to the vllodbath that would occur if we were to suddenly pull out? The have had an election, but do not yet have the police and miltary stabilzed and trained sufficiently to be able to withstand the concerted attacks by those Saddam had placed in power before. So we just wlk away and abandon them, like we did the Kurds and the Southern Iraqis after the first Gulf War?

Didn’t you learn anything from that?

And given that neither Syria nor Iran is overwhelmingly in support of a democracy, and both make shelter available to all comers who wish to establish a “Taliban” style theocracy, do you really feel those voters should simply be turned over to them and we should wash our hands?

Or is there a bit of racism at the bottom of this? They are just ignorant Islamic slugs, incapable of accomplishing anything either economically or politically, and so whatever happens to them really doesn’t matter?

You speak of “genuine self determination”. How is that to be accomplished when those who are determined at the cost of their lives (through suicide bombing, no less - an interesting equation of one “martyr” and literally hundreds of wounded and dead per incident, and no signs of running out of Semtex or anything else that will go “boom”) to stop that self determination are tremendously better organized? Not to mention, effective against poorrly armed and trained forces?

Do tell! I am waiting with baited breath!

 

[Isidore_AK]

You are totally insane if you think that thats even a possibility. Sorry, thats crazy talk. I don’t want to be rude, but there it is.

I just received my discharge in January (there goes that whole back door draft thing eh?), and my (single) buddies are volunteering for extra duty in Iraq. I don’t know anyone who is against the war (in the military I mean) in Iraq. People miss their families, and their state side lives, but they are still willing to go. Its not propaganda, its honor & discipline.

What you pray for is nothing short of a betrayal of our troops.

 

[Elaine_s_Cross]

But suppose, just suppose, it is an unjust war or suppose that it is very debatable and an individual soldier feels, that the war is unjust?

I follow with an excerpt from Joe Sobran in The Wanderer.

sobran.com/wanderer/w2004/w041230.shtml

War, Caesar, and Catholics

http://www.sobran.com/images/spacer.gifOne of the most disheartening facts about this war, to my mind, is how many Catholics have supported it. And I mean devout Catholics, who take their faith seriously, receive the sacraments, and would never dream of voting for a pro-abortion candidate.

http://www.sobran.com/images/spacer.gifThe Church has a long tradition of reflection on war, including the just war theorizing that goes back at least to St. Augustine. Criteria for a just war were developed when most wars were, by our standards, rather minor skirmishes, long before modern weapons of mass murder — when even the crossbow seemed a monstrous innovation. It was possible, and practical, to stipulate that civilians should be spared.

http://www.sobran.com/images/spacer.gifIn modern warfare, it hardly need be said, it has become increasingly difficult to avoid harming the innocent. If you will warfare, you almost necessarily will indiscriminate mass destruction. And even that can be directly willed and efficiently executed, not only by direct violence, but also by, for example, the 1991 sanctions against Iraq that killed countless people — far more than either of the two shooting wars against Iraq.

http://www.sobran.com/images/spacer.gifYet American Catholics have generally ignored these things, though the Pope himself has vigorously protested them. We have too readily equated war with “defense,” failing to ask in what possible sense such measures could possibly qualify as defensive.

http://www.sobran.com/images/spacer.gifIn the case of the latest Iraq war, some Catholics have argued that the decision to wage war belongs to “competent civil authorities,” and — by implication, at least — that once they make the fatal decision, the rest of us must obey. And also refrain from opposing them, it seems. Apparently this falls under the expansive heading of “the things that are Caesar’s.”

http://www.sobran.com/images/spacer.gifBut do Christ’s words mean we must always submit to the state? The early martyrs didn’t think so. True, He Himself didn’t engage in political activity; but He had a special mission that required Him to acquiesce. And we have the example of St. John the Baptist. If he could attack a king for an unholy marriage, surely we can, and should, speak out against an unholy war!

 

[mjdonnelly]

Those soldiers who would drop their weapons and refuse to fight are guilty of failing to follow a direct order (they swore to follow all orders) and mutiny (if involved with coercing others), cowardice in the face of the enemy.

They deserve to be shot where they stand. Which is perfectly legal in times of war.