Should priests wear their clerics when out grocery shopping? Getting a haircut? Seeing a movie? Walking the dog? Away on vacation?

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  1. All Catholics and Orthodox who have reached the age of reason go to confession. Even the Pope has a confessor. For centuries it has always been a Capuchin-Franciscan Brother. And no, Friar Raineiro (sp?) does not wear a collar. He wears his brother’s habit when at the Vatican. This is very deliberately done by the Capuchins and other branches of the Franciscan Order to avoid distinguishing priests from their Franciscan brothers. They do not desire to stand apart, nor was it Francis’ wish either.
  2. In my post on justice I failed to use the word “not” and Joy corrected it. Thank you Joy. We are not to assume authority over someone who is not subject to our authority. It seems on this issue there are too many who want to control. There is a difference between expressing an opinion and passing a judgment. He who passes a judgment over a religious or priest for not wearing a collar is really trying to control.
  3. The collar is no guarrantee that the person wearing it is a priest. Many religious men wear collars, so do some Protestant ministers.
  4. The question on the title of this thread is funny. I think the OP wanted to say clerical dress instead of clerics. I suddenly had an attack of silliness and tried to imagine someone trying to wear a cleric (deacon, priest or bishop) wrapped around his neck.
  5. In the case of priests who belong to religious orders, congregations societies or institutes of apostolic life, the faculties to hear confession is granted by the major superior not a bishop. Once a community is established in a diocese, the major superior may give faculties to any member of his community to hear the confessions of the faithful. The bishop grants that authority to the major superior. It’s part of the contract between the diocese and the community. This protects the community’s autonomy.
The same rule of autonomy applies to dress. The bishops cannot overrule the Constitutions or Rule of an institute of consecrated life. The most they can say is that they do not want that institute in their diocese.

There is a precedent for this in canon law. The Missionary Servants of the Blessed Trinity are a congregation of sisters founded in Maryland around the time of World War II. They never wore a veil or a long European style habit. A bishop wanted all women religious in his diocese to wear a veil. The Trinitarian Sisters explained that they had never worn a veil. The bishop insisted. The case went to Rome. Rome ruled in favour of the Sisters. The bishop decided that he would retrack his invitation to the congregation to serve in his diocese. Rome supported the bishop’s retraction. Both sides were acting within their rights.

This is the rule concerning dress. The rule of the community and the policy of the bishop have equal weight. If they can’t reach a compromise, they part company. The laity has no voice in the matter.

There was another issue involving a group of friars. The laity did not like the fact that they could not tell the friars apart. They did not know who was a priest and who was a layman. They wanted the priests to wear a collar while serving in the parish. The bishop ruled against the laity, because the friars were a mendicant order and are exempt. They answer only to their General Chapter and the Holy See. The habit was the tradition of the order and the laity had no right to demand that the friar-priests not wear the habit, but instead wear a Roman collar. It was unfortunate, because the friars became so upset that they pulled out of the diocese and left four parishes without anyone to attend to them. The bishop had to consolidate them into two parishes.

We have to be very careful where we step. If we want priests and religious to be there for us, we have to pick real issues and leave the small things alone. Everyone can find a priest when they go to a parish office, if there is a priest available.

In my parish you will never find a priest on the parish campus except during business hours. Our parish is staffed by mendicants. They do not live on the parish campus. They live at a friary several miles away. They have a schedule of parish hours that does not conflict with the schedule of the friary. There are certain times of the day when they don’t want to be found, because it’s community time, except in cases of life and death emergencies.

The supermarket is certainly a place where they do not wish to be targeted. If they are at the supermarket they are usually doing the shopping for the community. This is community time, as are community prayer, community recreation, community meals and so forth, just like shopping for your family is part of your family time.

JR 🙂
 
Thanks JReducation, you have a great way of clarifying things and getting to the point. I really appreciate your posts.
 
  1. All Catholics and Orthodox who have reached the age of reason go to confession. Even the Pope has a confessor. For centuries it has always been a Capuchin-Franciscan Brother. And no, Friar Raineiro (sp?) does not wear a collar. He wears his brother’s habit when at the Vatican. This is very deliberately done by the Capuchins and other branches of the Franciscan Order to avoid distinguishing priests from their Franciscan brothers. They do not desire to stand apart, nor was it Francis’ wish either
I don’t think Brothers are allowed to hear Confessions. Only priests are.
 
Ok, here is a companion question:

Should ordained, permanent, DEACONS wear a roman collar when not specificlly engaged in church work? Many deacons have full time jobs, outside the church. I would think it would be quite awkward wearing a collar to the office.

Doug
 
Ok, here is a companion question:

Should ordained, permanent, DEACONS wear a roman collar when not specificlly engaged in church work? Many deacons have full time jobs, outside the church. I would think it would be quite awkward wearing a collar to the office.

Doug
As documented in other posts, the real issue with permanent deacons is the opposite problem: deacons whose bishops FORBID the wearing of the collar even while the deacon is engaged in ministerial work such as hospital visits, wake services, internments, etc. I don’t know any deacons who are in favor of wearing the collar on their civilian job, but I know many who are frustrated that they’re denied the collar when engaged in ministry.
 
I see that I am post #157 or there about…so not sure if this point has been brought up in postings before this…

**YES priests should wear their clerics at all times. Do I take off my wedding ring when I go places? ** No.

Their clerics are a sign of their vocation like my wedding ring is a sign of mine. It lets people know my state in life…my commitment before God…it does not disappear suddenly if I am shopping…getting a haircut (there is a cap my beautician places on me)…esp. seeing movies these days (keeps priests prudent in their choices)…on vacation (esp. on vacation again).

It is my belief ~ if the day ever came that I began taking my ring off to go places ~ my marriage would be in deep trouble. Likewise the priest and the comfort level in wearing his clerics in public.
 
I see that I am post #157 or there about…so not sure if this point has been brought up in postings before this…

**YES priests should wear their clerics at all times. Do I take off my wedding ring when I go places? **No.

Their clerics are a sign of their vocation like my wedding ring is a sign of mine. It lets people know my state in life…my commitment before God…it does not disappear suddenly if I am shopping…getting a haircut (there is a cap my beautician places on me)…esp. seeing movies these days (keeps priests prudent in their choices)…on vacation (esp. on vacation again).

It is my belief ~ if the day ever came that I began taking my ring off to go places ~ my marriage would be in deep trouble. Likewise the priest and the comfort level in wearing his clerics in public.
Sorry but many of us disagree with you.

Fact is there are good times to take off a wedding band too.

When I worked as a volunteer firefighter and as a full time paramedic, we were advised to remove such things as you could loose a finger with some of the stuff we do on the job.

I also know many who remove them when they are playing sports.

I will say it again though, it is interestering how some people have opinions of the way others should act when they have no authority over them and those who do have authority allow them to do as they are doing currently.
 
**YES priests should wear their clerics at all times. Do I take off my wedding ring when I go places? ** No.
Again: should a priest choose not to wear his clerical clothing precisely so he can “discretely” engage in behaviors not appropriate for a priest? Absolutely not. But just because there are bad reasons for leaving the collar or wedding ring at home, there are also perfectly legitimate ones.
I will say it again though, it is interestering how some people have opinions of the way others should act when they have no authority over them and those who do have authority allow them to do as they are doing currently.
Yes.

A priest should always say “yes” to what he is called to do…by God. Outside those with legitimate authority over him, the rest of us have to understand that a priest’s fidelity may or may not lead to the same behavior as what we would tell him to do.
 
Fact is there are good times to take off a wedding band too.

When I worked as a volunteer firefighter and as a full time paramedic, we were advised to remove such things as you could loose a finger with some of the stuff we do on the job.

I also know many who remove them when they are playing sports.
I think we’re all in agreement, per several previous posts way back in this thread, that manual labor, sports, safety, etc. are good reasons not to wear clerics.
 
I don’t think Brothers are allowed to hear Confessions. Only priests are.
In the Franciscan Order the word priest does not appear in their rule or constitution. Every member is referred to as a Brother or a Friar. The custom of referring to Franciscans, Carmelites and Dominicans as Father comes from the United States where we have many diocesan priests and clerical congregations whose priests are called Father.

In the USA many people call Friar-priests Father, but that’s not their proper title. Francis, Dominic, Teresa of Avila did not use such a title in their rule or when referring to their brothers.

In addition, the European friars are referred to as Fra., the Latin abreviation for Frater (Brother).

Again, the reason is to ensure that priests in the order are not identifiable and do not singularize themselves. Among Franciscans the title Father is reserved for Francis. All superiors are Minister and everyone else is either Frater, Friar or Brother.

Notice how the Capuchin Franciscans call everyone Brother.

**Brother Alex, pastor of the parish;

Brother Louis, retired, but helping as part-time chaplain for various Catholic groups;

Brother Martin, retired, but helping as friary bursar for the Custody;**

justabrother.blogspot.com/ Only one of these Brothers is a priest.

In this parish one of the Brothers is not a priest. But the friars do not use the title Fr in front of their name.

They all wear a habit or a Roman collar.

st-bonaventure.ca/

This is a good example of how the opinions expressed in this thread are not universally applicable without throwing away over 1,000 years of religious life and deaconate. The permanent deaconate has always existed among the Eastern Churches and the Orthodox Churches. Both are validly ordained clerics.

The term “clerical collar” is a very American term. It is not a universal term. It is a Roman Collar used by all men who are either ordained, in vows or seminarians. Some communities of sisters also wear them. St. Faustina’s congregation wore a Roman collar, the solid white one.

I’m not sure how the lay people on this thread hopes to preserve the traditions of religious life and have priests that are easily identifiable. It’s not possible without doing harm to one or the other.

It’s best to leave these things to those who have a voice in the internal affairs of religious communities or dioceses.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
Two things.

One to muddy the water and the other about this idea that clerical dress is equivalent to a wedding band,

First the mud,

In the Byzantine Tradition (both Catholic and Orthodox) all male vowed religious are addressed as father regardless of ordination as a vowed religious is viewed as a monastic and as such they are spiritual fathers. Brother is only used for novices. All women vowed religious are addressed as mother. Sister is only used for novices.

Deacons are addressed as father deacon.

Now for the second.

The idea that clerical dress is equivalent to a wedding band is actually comparing apples to oranges.

Wedding bands are exchanged during the wedding ceremony and have a significance in that service. Clerical dress is not given at an ordination. The equivalent would be the priestly vestments and the paten which are given to the priest at the time of his ordination. For the deacon it would be the diaconal vestments, the Book of the Gospels, and the Chalice (thurifer in the east).

Now the religious habit might have an equivalence with the wedding bands but each order/congregation has its rules and constitutions that cover the habit.
 
Two things.

One to muddy the water and the other about this idea that clerical dress is equivalent to a wedding band,

First the mud,

In the Byzantine Tradition (both Catholic and Orthodox) all male vowed religious are addressed as father regardless of ordination as a vowed religious is viewed as a monastic and as such they are spiritual fathers. Brother is only used for novices. All women vowed religious are addressed as mother. Sister is only used for novices.

Deacons are addressed as father deacon.

Now for the second.

The idea that clerical dress is equivalent to a wedding band is actually comparing apples to oranges.

Wedding bands are exchanged during the wedding ceremony and have a significance in that service. Clerical dress is not given at an ordination. The equivalent would be the priestly vestments and the paten which are given to the priest at the time of his ordination. For the deacon it would be the diaconal vestments, the Book of the Gospels, and the Chalice (thurifer in the east).

Now the religious habit might have an equivalence with the wedding bands but each order/congregation has its rules and constitutions that cover the habit.
Brother,

Your points reinforce my question. Why would the lay posters on this thread want to change thousands of years of traditions in the Eastern, Roman and Orthodox churches and those that are part of religious life?

I can’t understand the need to intervene in something that is more complex than meets the eye.

If something is not broken, why try to fix it?

What I see happening regarding dress codes is clerics and religious recovering their roots. These roots contributed to the life of the Church for almost 2000 years.

Let’s leave it alone. Give those of us who live this life the space to do as our founders and bishops want us to do.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
I don’t think Brothers are allowed to hear Confessions. Only priests are.
All friars are addressed as Brother, even priests, under the Franciscan rule. Only when functioning as a priest are they addressed as Father. Several other orders of friars have similar rules.

And only some priest-friars are permitted to be fathers-confessor.
 
Sometimes when I go to visit my sister I pop into the catholic church that is a block from her house. Today I noticed he was wearing a stripped (I think bluish) polo and black pants. It was the morning Mass, and he was talking about the importance of feeling like we are the church. He also mentioned it was the birthday of Mary. I have not seen this at the parish I go to. Is this allowable? I have no information on this.
 
Sometimes when I go to visit my sister I pop into the catholic church that is a block from her house. Today I noticed he was wearing a stripped (I think bluish) polo and black pants. It was the morning Mass, and he was talking about the importance of feeling like we are the church. He also mentioned it was the birthday of Mary. I have not seen this at the parish I go to. Is this allowable? I have no information on this.
When a priest celebrates the Mass he must wear the required vestments.

Under non-emergency situations that would be the alb, (plus the amice and cincture if necessary), stole and chasuble.
 
Rick’s right. If you’re sure it was during Mass, then he should not have been wearing street clothes, and if he was, they should have been completely covered by his vestments. Even a roman collar should be covered by an amice if the alb is inssuficient- the vestments represent the priest stepping into his role as Christ in the sacrifice, so his ‘normal’ attire should be hidden.
 
It was the Mass, I have been to a bunch now. The mass times are also listed on the entrance on a sign box by the entry doors.

Maybe he was running late?
 
Eep. Yeah, he should have been wearing vestments…

As far as everyday, going out and whatnot, I don’t think they’re obligated to wear a collar (Our previous priest would just dress very nicely, polo shirt and khakis, when he went out to lunch or dinner with a family or whatnot), but I think it’s kinda cool when they do 😃
 
Well, maybe he had a good reason, like the person in charge of them for cleaning or repairs was late, or they tore when he put them on, and decided it looked worse to have torn vestments to do the Mass, or maybe something else I don’t know.
I guess running late is not a reason according to the eye roll emotion pic another poster had.
🤷

Anyway, I guess I will pray he does the right thing next time.

Do priests have to wear vestments for private confession too? I mean, not in an emergency of course, but a scheduled one?
 
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