Should someone from another faith who wants to become a Traditionalist have to go through RCIA?

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Blessed_is_He said:
My friend is interested in becoming Catholic. Lately she has been going to the Latin Mass. If she wants to be traditional Catholic does she still have to go through RICA? Thanks
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Stephen_Sutor said:
A non-Catholic friend always wanted to go to a Traditional Latin Mass (TLM), so five months ago he joins me and has attends every week.

He wanted to learn more about Roman Catholic teachings and become a Catholic. He visited two local parishes and asked to participate in a Catholic learning group. Both parishes have the RCIA program and their requirement was that he attends weekly ‘New’ Masses at their parish. The RCIA programs did not recognize TLM in their program.

Stephen Sutor
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Something is missing in both of these situations. If someone wants to join the Catholic Church, why don’t they simply join at the parish they attend? Surely the RCIA program at a parish that is offering the traditional Mass would be able to accommodate some one that goes to Mass there. So then I was thinking and had a question. Are the Masses these two are attending being licitly offered by the Catholic Church or is it a Mass being illicitly offered outside of the diocese?
 
I find this the topic of this thread just a little unnerving.

Wanting to become a Catholic, but on the basis of identifying oneself exclusively with on form of the Roman rite of the Mass, to the point of almost identifying oneself with that form, doesn’t seem very catholic. We are the universal Church, we don’t have sub-groups that people can join.

Regardless of what a person’s individual preference might end up becoming, the Ordinary Form of the Mass is the form celebrated by the vast majority. It would seem (to me) to be just a little bit strange to be received into the Church having almost chosen to not want much to do with it.

We are all Roman Catholics, we are not identified on the basis of with form of the Mass we prefer to attend. All it is is a personal preference, nothing more. I light candles and pray particularly to the Sacred Heart, more than I do to Mary. Does that make me a Sacred Heart Catholic, as opposed to a Marian Catholic?
 
Brendan_64 said:
I find this the topic of this thread just a little unnerving.

Wanting to become a Catholic, but on the basis of identifying oneself exclusively with on form of the Roman rite of the Mass, to the point of almost identifying oneself with that form, doesn’t seem very catholic. We are the universal Church, we don’t have sub-groups that people can join.

Regardless of what a person’s individual preference might end up becoming, the Ordinary Form of the Mass is the form celebrated by the vast majority. It would seem (to me) to be just a little bit strange to be received into the Church having almost chosen to not want much to do with it.

We are all Roman Catholics, we are not identified on the basis of with form of the Mass we prefer to attend. All it is is a personal preference, nothing more. I light candles and pray particularly to the Sacred Heart, more than I do to Mary. Does that make me a Sacred Heart Catholic, as opposed to a Marian Catholic?
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I agree with you. This isn’t a good trend in Catholicism.
 
Brendan_64 said:
I find this the topic of this thread just a little unnerving.

Wanting to become a Catholic, but on the basis of identifying oneself exclusively with on form of the Roman rite of the Mass, to the point of almost identifying oneself with that form, doesn’t seem very catholic. We are the universal Church, we don’t have sub-groups that people can join.

Regardless of what a person’s individual preference might end up becoming, the Ordinary Form of the Mass is the form celebrated by the vast majority. It would seem (to me) to be just a little bit strange to be received into the Church having almost chosen to not want much to do with it.

We are all Roman Catholics, we are not identified on the basis of with form of the Mass we prefer to attend. All it is is a personal preference, nothing more. I light candles and pray particularly to the Sacred Heart, more than I do to Mary. Does that make me a Sacred Heart Catholic, as opposed to a Marian Catholic?
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Many want to be a better Catholic, or a better traditionalist, or a better <fill_in_the_blank>. Few have the desire to be a better disciple and lover of Jesus.

We should strive to be a better disciple. God will lead us where he wants us to be after that.

When we recieve the Eucharist it is not he who is incorporated into our body but we who are incorporated into his.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Many want to be a better Catholic, or a better traditionalist, or a better <fill_in_the_blank>. Few have the desire to be a better disciple and lover of Jesus.
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I guess I’m confused by this statement. Hows is trying to be a better Catholic, not trying to be a better disciple of Jesus?:confused: Likewise how is trying to be a better traditionalist or <fill_in_the_blank>, not being a better disciple of Jesus Christ? Is cultivating a deeper love for the Liturgical form or Rite you believe you are called to an anti-Christlike behavior?
TimothyH said:
We should strive to be a better disciple. God will lead us where he wants us to be after that.
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How do you know these aren’t the ways He is leading others to Him?
TimothyH said:
When we recieve the Eucharist it is not he who is incorporated into our body but we who are incorporated into his.
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It’s both! 🙂 Christ gives Himself fully to us and we like wise offer ourselves fully to Him.
 
Tradosaurus_Rex said:
Likewise how is trying to be a better traditionalist or <fill_in_the_blank>, not being a better disciple of Jesus Christ? Is cultivating a deeper love for the Liturgical form or Rite you believe you are called to an anti-Christlike behavior?
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Why label oneself based on the type of Mass one prefers to attend? How would a person become a better ‘traditionalist’ anyway? By being better at listening and responding when you attend Mass? Because (outside of a different form of the Mass) there are no differences in values and beliefs.

Whether we choose to attend an EF or OF Mass (or attend both) the beliefs and values that the Church expects of us are exactly the same. There is not a set of ‘traditionalist’ teachings, beliefs and values. There is only the teachings, beliefs and values of the Church.

The only thing you could call ‘traditionalist’ might be the form of Mass you attend. How many hours a day does a person spend at Mass, and how many hours does he spend outside of Mass, trying to live the Gospel values that are exactly the same for us all?
 
Brendan_64 said:
Why label oneself based on the type of Mass one prefers to attend? How would a person become a better ‘traditionalist’ anyway? By being better at listening and responding when you attend Mass? Because (outside of a different form of the Mass) there are no differences in values and beliefs.

Whether we choose to attend an EF or OF Mass (or attend both) the beliefs and values that the Church expects of us are exactly the same. There is not a set of ‘traditionalist’ teachings, beliefs and values. There is only the teachings, beliefs and values of the Church.

The only thing you could call ‘traditionalist’ might be the form of Mass you attend. How many hours a day does a person spend at Mass, and how many hours does he spend outside of Mass, trying to live the Gospel values that are exactly the same for us all?
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Why do Eastern Catholics label themselves or why do Roman Catholics label themself as such? Identifying one’s self as Eastern, Western, traditionalist, or <insert here> does not mean we are not identifying ourselves at the same time as Catholic! And yes while the Church expects us to believe in the same things, meaning the doctrines, it does not expect us to uphold the same rubrics during the Liturgy and so in order to identify who practices what we are allowed to identify ourselves. This becomes especially true when theology is involved between Eastern and Western Catholics.
 
Tradosaurus_Rex said:
Why do Eastern Catholics label themselves or why do Roman Catholics label themself as such? Identifying one’s self as Eastern, Western, traditionalist, or <insert here> does not mean we are not identifying ourselves at the same time as Catholic! .
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Because they are Eastern Catholics, not Roman Catholics. It is not simply a label they decide to give themselves based on a form of Mass they prefer to attend.

There is no separate sub-group within the Roman Catholic Church called ‘Traditional Catholics’. At least not one that is recognised by our Church.
 
Brendan_64 said:
Whether we choose to attend an EF or OF Mass (or attend both) the beliefs and values that the Church expects of us are exactly the same. There is not a set of ‘traditionalist’ teachings, beliefs and values. There is only the teachings, beliefs and values of the Church.

The only thing you could call ‘traditionalist’ might be the form of Mass you attend. How many hours a day does a person spend at Mass, and how many hours does he spend outside of Mass, trying to live the Gospel values that are exactly the same for us all?
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In my experience, this doesn’t hold water. Different stripes of Catholics have very different worldviews and come to opposing viewpoints on prudential judgments because of it. Sometimes, it sounds like they come from different religions, even if they both swear they believe everything the Church teaches.

And what kind of Mass people prefer is, in my experience, not the cause of the differences. It’s an effect that comes from the first cause, which is their respective worldviews.
 
Rich_C said:
And what kind of Mass people prefer is, in my experience, not the cause of the differences. It’s an effect that comes from the first cause, which is their respective worldviews.
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I fail to see how preference for a particular form of Mass is a reflection of that person’s ‘worldview’.

We are all called to follow the teachings of the Church, are we not? There is only one Christ, only one example to try to emulate in terms of our behaviour. The form of Mass we prefer has no bearing on our behaviour.
 
Brendan_64 said:
I fail to see how preference for a particular form of Mass is a reflection of that person’s ‘worldview’.

We are all called to follow the teachings of the Church, are we not? There is only one Christ, only one example to try to emulate in terms of our behaviour. The form of Mass we prefer has no bearing on our behaviour.
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Nevertheless, if you meet enough Catholics, you start to see how a person can be completely orthodox and still completely out of touch with historical Catholicism as believed and lived–and what a difference it makes.

I don’t really have time for a good reply now. I’d be happy to discuss it more over PM, if you like.
 
Blessed_is_He said:
My friend is interested in becoming Catholic. Lately she has been going to the Latin Mass. If she wants to be traditional Catholic does she still have to go through RICA? Thanks
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Most parishes will put everyone through RCIA. This is due to resource (time, staff/volunteers, money) issues. Strictly, RCIA is for unbaptized non-Christians. If your friend is a non-Catholic Christian an appropriate programme of catechesis is more relevant. This should depend on whether she is coming from an Orthodox/Protestant church/ecclesial community. But, it’s most likely she’ll be required to go through RCIA.
 
Brendan_64 said:
There is no separate sub-group within the Roman Catholic Church called ‘Traditional Catholics’. At least not one that is recognised by our Church.
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There are two Forms of the Liturgy which are recognized by the Church within the Roman Rite, so since they both can’t be called the OF, some Catholics have taken it upon themselves to identify as “traditional Catholics” so then other Roman Catholics as a whole will know or will come to know they attend the EF. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who had and have no knowledge of the Mass prior to Vatican II. If there weren’t a group of EF going Catholics identifying themselves as “traditional” Catholics then it would make it hard to let others know that there is another form of the Liturgy which is and has been part of the Roman Rite. As one priest said, the Tridentine Mass has gone from the ordinary form to a mission Mass, in where if others do not make it known that it is a valid form and that it still does exist within the Church, then it will and can disappear. Especially since most Catholics nowadays were born into the Church after Vatican II and therefore have no idea of what Mass was like prior to the changes.

Anyway this is getting sidetracked from the OP. So I will leave this as it is.

God bless.
 
Rich_C said:
In my experience, this doesn’t hold water. Different stripes of Catholics have very different worldviews and come to opposing viewpoints on prudential judgments because of it.
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Domincan, Franciscan, Marian, LifeTeen, Neocatechumenal. There are more different types of Catholic spirituality that I can count out there. Being tied in heart to the older form of the Mass, or some other type of Traditional spirituality is no different. As long as we don’t cross the line to comparison with others, thus elevating ourselves as holier, its alright. There is nothing wrong with having a modifier to “Catholic”. That which unifies us is greater than that which divides, which in the end is not relevant. It is the end product (holiness) that matters, not the means.
 
Why do people get so uncomfortable when they try to identify themselves within Catholicism? The Church is very diverse even within our own rite. As long as we remember even though we are many parts, we are one body. I don’t see the trouble in appreciating all aspects of the Catholic Church and being proud to celebrate in a particular way.
 
If the person is interested in the EF Mass, then I would suggest contacting the closest FSSP parish priest. They generally give one on one catechesis. But a new entry into the church should have some basic instruction. They need to understand the tenants of the church and their responsibility as a member of the Body of Christ.
 
=Blessed is He;11119394]My friend is interested in becoming Catholic. Lately she has been going to the Latin Mass. If she wants to be traditional Catholic does she still have to go through RICA? Thanks
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First be aware that you may [read as can and should] remove the word “traditional” from your Q, as the answer applies to everyone desiring to enter into the CC.

And the answer is a mandated YES as the Norm for enterning the Roman Catholic Church in America. Any deviant would have to * be approved by the Local Ordinary [Bishop].

WHY?

Because among the RITES of RCIA “Rite of Iniation for Catholic /Christian Adults”] is the Sacrament of Confirmation. This Sacrament [which like all seven Sacraments was Instituted by Christ] presuposes [not "assumes] a suffiecient knowledge of our Catholic Faith and our CREED that one can knowledgeably and freely AFFIRM our beliefs. God considers this ACT as a Personal Covenant, a very serious matter.👍

One cannot be asked to commit to a faith one does not understand.

God Bless you BOTH!
patrick [PJM]*
 
PJM, you are presenting a VERY flawed view of the sacrament.

Confirmation is a sacrament wherein a person is signed with holy oil while receiving the blessing of being “… signed and sealed with the gifts of the Holy Spirit.” (Byzantine-ruthenian liturgical wording.) In all of the Eastern Churches in Union with Rome, it’s done within an hour or two of baptism; in the Byzantine rite children and adults alike are baptized immediately before the liturgy, chrismated after the readings, and communed that very day.

There is no requirement to already know the faith to be baptized nor confirmed; there is a requirement for converts of the age of reason to know the faith before baptism if unbaptized, and before their profession of the faith if baptized.

Further, Orthodox are NOT supposed to be confirmed when converting (Their Confirmation/Chrismation in their Orthodox church is valid, and confirmation is not repeatable). All they do is make the profession of faith and public statement of acceptance of what the church teaches.

Further still, the RCIA program as presented by the USCCB has specific provisions for dealing with candidates and catechumens. There are some differences. The Eastern Churches in Union do not follow the RCIA program at all - each has their own rules on the formation of converts and their own liturgical ritual to be followed.
 
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