Should the Church return to the old rite?

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The majority of the priest who celebrate the EF in my diocese are in their 30’s.
They are well advertised, and offer the Sacraments in the EF as well.
There is not now, nor do,I expect it to happen, a huge surge in popularity. In fact, I do beelive it will always be a “niche” group, and that will keep it small.
 
I pray it happens but doubt it will… at least not with this pope!
 
The only thing that makes me reluctant to go to the old rite is the LANGUAGE, because I don’t want to sit through a Mass in a language that I don’t understand. It’s nice to have a bit of Latin here and there, but having the entire thing in Latin is too much for me.
 
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stpurl:
But you’re telling us it was a bunch of tolerant OF ‘vibrant’ people who just couldn’t be vibrant unless they had it their way.
No, that’s not what I said. The new pastor disbanded all of the Christian charity projects, the parish festival, etc. He also made his personal disdain for the OF quite clear.

Parishioners didn’t leave the Church over it, and go somewhere not in communion with Rome. They simply found new parishes. The attendance at the parish is now a tiny fraction of what it was, which is indeed sad, but also indicative that the EF isn’t some magic bullet to bring people back.
Weren’t there all kinds of other issues at the parish that he corrected? Inclusive language, using earthen (pottery?) vessels, a prayer added into the Mass? Disbanding the soup kitchen, which had been controversial in the neighborhood for years?

It’s about way more than “making the Mass similar to the EF”, I believe.

At St. Francis of Assisi Parish in Portland, unity is elusive | National Catholic Reporter
 
same aspects of tradition should be brought back or at least be made known again.
 
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I’d be thrilled to see the Extraordinary Form offered in the vernacular.
 
Oh that’s hilarious I go to Mary Immaculate at Annerley too! I wouldn’t say we have heaps more Ordinary Form masses though, we have both forms every day (at least before covid) although the OF is definitely more accessible for weekday Mass. However on Sundays I’ve been to both and I always see way more people at the EF.
 
his back to the people
In the Eastern Catholic Churches, the priest faces towards the altar (“liturgical East” as @stpurl posted) and has his back to the people except at certain points in the Liturgy/Qorbono (e.g. blessing the people).

The RCC needs to rediscover its own Tradition. I know some people who are so gung-ho against the EF/TLM it’s almost unbearable - and they grew up with the TLM prior to VII! You can’t reason with them. Everything pre-VII is bad and everything post-VII is good.

IIRC, Our Lord spoke in the Gospel about a householder who brings out the old as well as the new.
 
In the Eastern Catholic Churches, the priest faces towards the altar
In every liturgy, everyone faces the altar. (unless there is an iconostasis or roodscreen) Personally, I think the altar is far more obvious in the OF than in the EF, one of the best reforms from the Council.

The EF seems directed beyond the altar, to the tabernacle or to “the East.” I have heard EF proponents make both of those mistakes. We face the altar where Christ is saving us by his sacrifice. Ad orientem and versus populum are just ways to distinguish postures while facing the altar.

While Vatican II called for a continued use of Latin, once the vernaculars were introduced, people and clergy called for an expanded use of it. (see the description of this in the intro to the GIRM) This is known as an organic development.
 
The majority of the priest who celebrate the EF in my diocese are in their 30’s.
They are well advertised, and offer the Sacraments in the EF as well.
There is not now, nor do,I expect it to happen, a huge surge in popularity. In fact, I do believe it will always be a “niche” group, and that will keep it small.
That is possible, but I wonder if we might see an increasing trend over a few generations?
I say this because if the majority of the priests are in their 30s, than their peers, who will marry and raise kids, are also in their 30s. From what I’ve seen, these married couples tend to have more than the 1 or 2 kids that have become the standard in so many communities. I also wonder if we might not see their children more likely to stay in the church or return after a short exit? it will be interesting to observe retention. Of course, I’m thinking two generations out here (40-50 years.
 
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stpurl:
But you’re telling us it was a bunch of tolerant OF ‘vibrant’ people who just couldn’t be vibrant unless they had it their way.
No, that’s not what I said. The new pastor disbanded all of the Christian charity projects, the parish festival, etc. He also made his personal disdain for the OF quite clear.

Parishioners didn’t leave the Church over it, and go somewhere not in communion with Rome. They simply found new parishes. The attendance at the parish is now a tiny fraction of what it was, which is indeed sad, but also indicative that the EF isn’t some magic bullet to bring people back.
This sounds more like a problem of a bad pastor or there was something going on behind the scenes that most parishioners didn’t know about. This doesn’t really sound like it is mainly an OF vs EF issue.

There is a territorial parish near me which a traditional minded pastor. He likes to offer the EF on special occasions. He remodeled the sanctuary (inexpensively) by obtaining an Altar Pope Francis offered Mass at during the World Meeting of Families in Philadelphia, brought in more statues, he build side altars out of wood, etc.

He even stopped doing to the Sign of Peace and the required the Choir & Cantors to sing some Latin Hymns.

The parish was VERY liberal before he came. The previous priest used to let lay people give homilies by asking “is there anyone who would like to come up and give today’s homily?”

So some people didn’t really like him. But he also kept the parish carnival and worked to make it better. The priest is very warm and very holy man. Even people who don’t like that he’s traditional, can sense his holiness.

He told the parish that he was going to start fundraising to actually build the new Church they were promised 50 years ago. He grew the parish funds so that the parish wasn’t closed (which many thought was going to happen). He helped a group found a new Catholic high school at the parish, using the classrooms from the closed elementary school, etc.

He’s transforming that parish, and people are slowing taking notice.

So brining in tradition can work, but you also have to keep what is good at a parish too.

Getting rid of a parish festival, and closing all charities doesn’t sound like a wise thing to do.

However, there also could have been far more going on that you are not aware of. There have been parishes with finance issues over the years, and perhaps there was a money issue that forced the priest to close these things? Because traditional priests are not against parish festivals and parish charities.

God Bless
 
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HomeschoolDad:
Yes.

Next question?
No.

Next question? 😉

Unless you make the following changes to the EF: available in the vernacular; dialogue Mass; spoken or chanted Canon; more EPs (well at least EP IV); three readings, on Sundays, 1st from the Old Testament (or from Acts in Eastertide); responsorial psalm instead of gradual to facilitate participation of the faithful… Oh wait…

But keep the Gregorian chant… oh wait…that’s what happens at our abbey (but they kept the Gradual).
This blog post (which was linked to from the National Catholic Register) is from a Catholic priests who is suggesting something similar to the 1965 or 1967 missal

 
Perhaps making every Mass a dialogue Mass would be able to counter some of that though.
What is interesting is that the SSPX uses the dialogue Mass at their Low Masses. I’ve never been, but I heard an interview about it and about why the SSPX uses the dialogue (Low) Mass.

Also, many parishes offering the EF do allow the laity to pray aloud certain parts during the High Mass.

The Gloria, the Creed, The Santos, Agnus Dei, plus all the Dominus vobiscum’s
 
Guess what? People were leaving before Vatican II. Why do we think they held the council? Society in general, after WWII, became increasingly irreligious. Rolling the clock back only restores the known problems in the “old rite.”
Wait a minute — Vatican II was convened because people were leaving the Church? I never heard that before. The way I always heard it, John XXIII just kind of “woke up one morning and decided the Church needed a council”.

It might shock some people to hear me say this, but I have to think that the Church did need a council at this particular time. In the 20th century, the world had been through two of the worst wars, in quick succession, that had ever occurred. European civilization, or large portions of it, was left in ruins both physically and morally. There was also communism, which V2 did not address, this due to an agreement between Rome and Moscow. That was very unfortunate, but it was just the fact of the matter.

As for what would have happened if there never had been a Novus Ordo Missae — if the Church had retained the Traditional Latin Mass and only the TLM — that is hard to say. Catholics were emerging from their often insular, even ghettoized lives, they were pursuing higher education along with everybody else, and there was an absolute social and cultural revolution in the West in the 1960s and 1970s. There might have been a “quiet revolution” (such as happened in Quebec) and many people would have just quit going to Mass. You had television, and improved communication and transportation, and Catholics saw the non-Catholic world and were attracted to it. I don’t know how it would have gone, for that one hour on Sundays to have been a mystic, contemplative, otherworldly experience that contrasted so dramatically with people’s everyday lives. Again, hard to say. We’ll never know.

I do know that the TLM in our day is very self-selecting — everybody who is there, is there because they want to be there, they have made a conscious choice to be at the TLM and not the OF, and not only are they fully orthodox in the Faith (some do not even use NFP, viewing this as only permissible for the gravest of reasons which they don’t see as applying to them), but very often, other aspects of their lifestyle are conservative, traditional, “retro”, and so on. Their politics are usually very right-wing. In short, they are a small sliver of the Catholic world and not at all representative of the larger Church. (But do they ever produce vocations! If the Church at large followed suit, we wouldn’t have a priest shortage.)
 
The way I always heard it, John XXIII just kind of “woke up one morning and decided the Church needed a council”.
There was also communism, which V2 did not address, this due to an agreement between Rome and Moscow. That was very unfortunate, but it was just the fact of the matter.
Provide evidence of these accusations or withdraw them. Better a millstone be tied to your ankle and you be drowned than lead unsuspecting faithful into sin.
 
Weren’t there all kinds of other issues at the parish that he corrected? Inclusive language, using earthen (pottery?) vessels, a prayer added into the Mass? Disbanding the soup kitchen, which had been controversial in the neighborhood for years?

It’s about way more than “making the Mass similar to the EF”, I believe.
Um, not sure what you’re talking about, or what this link has to do with anything I said. Perhaps you replied to the wrong poster?
 
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