Should the Gloria and Sanctus always be sung rather than recited?

[superamazingman]

The GIRM also says that it should be sung straight through with out refrains, but there are exceptions granted for this in at least North America.

Where is this exception found?

 

[Elizium23]

Where is this exception found?

There is no exception because there is no restriction. The GIRM says the text of the Gloria “may not be replaced by any other text”. Whether or not parts of the prescribed text can be repeated, as for refrains, is a point of interpretation.

 

[O_Moriah]

There is no exception because there is no restriction. The GIRM says the text of the Gloria “may not be replaced by any other text”. Whether or not parts of the prescribed text can be repeated, as for refrains, is a point of interpretation.

I’m pretty sure there was some instruction that allowed for repetition of words and phrases for the sake of meter and allowing the Gloria to be composed with a refrain. I’m not sure of the exact instruction it came from, but a contest for new settings seems to be quoting from that instruction, unfortunately, without attribution.

From this web site: thesacredarts.org/composer_competition.html
*
Composers are encouraged to provide through-composed settings of the Glory to God, reflecting the free-form structure of the hymn. Compositions that incorporate a refrain are also acceptable but must not unduly lengthen the hymn. Such a refrain should be drawn from the official text without addition or alteration (see no. 6).

Text for Mass Setting for the New English Translation
For artistic considerations and in conformity with the tradition of sacred music, words or phrases may be repeated moderately while maintaining time considerations consistent with regular congregational use.*

 

[wmw]

Where is this exception found?

Sorry not North America, but in the United States, there is the option of using a setting for the Gloria that has a refrain. The permission to do so was given by the bishops of the United States in their Policy for the Approval of Sung Settings of Liturgical Texts:

“The addition of refrains to the Glory to God is permitted, provided the refrains encourage congregational participation.”

The bishops’ more recent document, Sing to the Lord: Music in Divine Worship, reiterates this but also clarifies the bigger picture for us:

“While through-composed settings of the Gloria give clearest expression to the text, the addition of refrains is permitted, provided the refrains encourage congregational participation” (149).

.

 

[superamazingman]

Sorry not North America, but in the United States, there is the option of using a setting for the Gloria that has a refrain. The permission to do so was given by the bishops of the United States in their Policy for the Approval of Sung Settings of Liturgical Texts: The bishops’ more recent document, Sing to the Lord: Music in Divine Worship, reiterates this but also clarifies the bigger picture for us:.

But here’s the problem: Sing to the Lord has absolutely no authority.

 

[TCCOV]

Well, folks, quote passages until blue in the face. But this “added repetitive text/refrain” conundrum is a non-starter by the “Whats good for the goose” axiom, namely- the incredibly unnecessary interpolations of the newly composed “genuine polyphony” that Capella Sixtina inflicts upon the world during the chanting of the Angelis “Gloria” for Festal Masses at St. Peter’s. I’m sure it has never occured to the Holy Father in those moments, but it likely has crossed (pardon pun) his mind otherwise to take his crozier during those interminable moments, pound in on the marble floor and hiss “Es ist genug! (That’s enough!) Sie mussen nur kanten jetzt. (You must now only chant.)”
I’ll take some of the refrain “Glories” over that any day.

 

[Evan]

I went through this list and bolded what it typically sung in my parish. Funny how most of them are in the group that is deemed least necessary to be sung.

I think you have your understanding backwards.

1st degree songs are sung only at the Solemn Mass.
2nd degree songs are sung at the Solemn or High Mass
3rd degree songs can be sung at any mass: Solemn, High or Low.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

I think you have your understanding backwards.

1st degree songs are sung only at the Solemn Mass.
2nd degree songs are sung at the Solemn or High Mass
3rd degree songs can be sung at any mass: Solemn, High or Low.

I don’t think so.

These degrees must be so employed, however, that the first may always be used without the others, but the second and third never without the first. Thus in all cases the faithful are to be brought to take part fully in the singing.

So according to my understanding, you shouldn’t be starting to do things in the second and third degree until you are doing everything in the first.

 

[Evan]

I don’t think so.

So according to my understanding, you shouldn’t be starting to do things in the second and third degree until you are doing everything in the first.

I guess you are right. But my understanding is that the Gospel Alleluia is to be sung (and it was in the 3rd group).

In the new GIRM

1. After the reading that immediately precedes the Gospel, the Alleluia or another chant indicated by the rubrics is sung, as required by the liturgical season. An acclamation of this kind constitutes a rite or act in itself, by which the assembly of the faithful welcomes and greets the Lord who is about to speak to them in the Gospel and professes their faith by means of the chant. It is sung by all while standing and is led by the choir or a cantor, being repeated if this is appropriate. The verse, however, is sung either by the choir or by the cantor.

"a. The Alleluia is sung in every season other than Lent. The verses are taken from the Lectionary or the Graduale.

"b. During Lent, in place of the Alleluia, the verse before the Gospel is sung, as indicated in the Lectionary. It is also permissible to sing another psalm or tract, as found in the Graduale.

"63. When there is only one reading before the Gospel,

"a. During a season when the Alleluia is to be said, either the Alleluia Psalm or the responsorial Psalm followed by the Alleluia with its verse may be used;

"b. During the season when the Alleluia is not to be said, either the psalm and the verse before the Gospel or the psalm alone may be used;

“c. The Alleluia or verse before the Gospel may be omitted if they are not sung.”

Quite a change… from 3) to 1) for the Alleluia!

 

[ProVobis]

In the Extraordinary Form, if a Low Mass was celebrated, it was not even permitted for any Mass parts to be sung at all, including the Sanctus and Gloria, even on Sundays or Class I feasts.

Yes, this is the Missa Lecta (read Mass) as opposed to the Missa Cantata (sung Mass). Either can be used anytime. AFAIK, GRIM does not apply in the EF.

 

[wmw]

But here’s the problem: Sing to the Lord has absolutely no authority.

That is why Policy for the Approval of Sung Settings of Liturgical Texts is quoted first as the major source while Sing to the Lord is only added because it gives further explanation.

 

[Enim]

Following this hierarchy or degrees mentioned above you can see that the singing begins with the celebrant, then the ordinaries which are the same for every Mass tne would grow into the propers or hymns. Had wee used this template more judicously I think Our music programs would be better united to the rite. I like that the Creed is required above hymns.

 

[Elizabeth779]

If you are in a Mass where they will be spoken rather than sung, I suggest to say the Gloria and the Sanctus as joyfully and thoughtfully, and you will be happier with the experience.

 

[Anne1964]

We used to sing the Gloria until the new translation came out last year. Our pastor hates the music for the new translation and refuses to use it. So, we either recite the Gloria in English or sing it in Latin.

 

[TCCOV]

Our pastor hates the music for the new translation and refuses to use it.

Couple of questions:

1. The musical settings are subserviant to the translation, and many are the revised extant settings as well as many musically worthy settings. Do you know, for a fact, that he has availed himself of intimate acquaintences with all of those?
2. Are you sure his refusal to use the above, much less the Latin originals (the easilty negotiated “de Angelis” for example) is based upon a musical analysis or some other prediliction?

 

[O_Moriah]

We used to sing the Gloria until the new translation came out last year. Our pastor hates the music for the new translation and refuses to use it. So, we either recite the Gloria in English or sing it in Latin.

There’s like 50 settings just from OCP and GIA and WLP. Wonder if he did his research.

 

[superamazingman]

There’s like 50 settings just from OCP and GIA and WLP. Wonder if he did his research.

and many of them are absolute trash to be perfectly honest.

 

[centurionguard]

Since last Advent 2011 when the New Revised Roman Missal came out the music has gotten extremely modern as if pushing the envelope to the extreme.

Love the the Revised Mass translation a obvious change for the better for the most part even if I’m at odds with my parish priest omitting parts of the translation and rubrics or changing them for his own convience.

The new Gloria sung now has familiar words but short of nine minutes in length it seems oddly redundant for the length part.

None of the parishioners feel inclined nor encouraged to join their voice to a strange music arrangement.

 

[Anne1964]

Our pastor is very musically talented, plays several instruments by ear and prefers Gregorian chant. The people in our parish who assist with music are in agreement with him.

He is very particular about the music we use during Mass. Even though we have a more traditional hymnal we frequently have copies of older hymns inserted in the bulletin to use during Mass.

I would imagine he has investigated what musical arrangements are available for the new translation.

 

[TCCOV]

Anne, no disrespect intended in the questions.
That all sounds wonderful for your parishioners. Your pastor is undoubtedly is very familiar with Corpus Christi Watershed project. Masses available on that website are in the Creative Commons and are royalty free. I’m particular fond of the Mass of St. Ralph Sherwin by Jeff Ostrowski and the Mass of St. Therese of Liseux by Royce Nickel, tho’ there are many more to peruse. There are also psalters there, royalty free, etc. Virtually all of the content there is chant, or chant based. Cheers.