Should the Pope apologize?

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Let’s review. Benedict recites a quotation which characterizes Islam as being Evil and Violent.

Muslims get offended.

So they burn five churches and start setting off car bombs.

I think more than anything they are proving the wise Emporer correct…
 
The way I see it, if they get violent in response to this, then all they’re doing is proving that he was speaking the truth - that Islam “evangelizes” through violence.

If they want him to be wrong, all they have to do is ignore him and pay attention to what’s important in life - loving your kids and doing your daily duties.
But the HF does not believe that the quote was the truth. the HF said that Islam is not a violen religion. We should follow the HF’s example and not feed the fire.

Peace,
DS
 
“Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”

And thats not feeding the fire?
 
“Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”

And thats not feeding the fire?
It is a statement by the Byzantine Emperor, who was watching the Christian Byzantine Empire being decimated by the sword of Islam.
 
“Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”

And thats not feeding the fire?
I think it is feeding the fire. I wish he hadn’t used that quote. But he did. And he has tried to express his sorrow upsetting them. He has also reiterated that is NOT his opinion of Islam. So as followers of the RCC, we should follow that stance.

Peace,
DS
 
Looking at the quote in context is interesting though- the Muslim community lashed out at the Pope for that quote, but it was to demonstrate that spreading the faith through violence is unreasonable.
 
Emperor Manual II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire only spoke what was true. And is still proving to be true in lands run by orthodox Islam, which are free of Western influence. The Byzantine Empire and other neighboring areas were conquered by the followers of Islam, in the name of Islam. The only thing that prevented that from happening sooner, The Crusades! And those Crusades were initiated to defend against the radical Islamic threat of that period.

Pope Benedict may not be attributing the words himself, but he’s made it clear he is fully aware of the history of things done in the name of “Allah”. And now Muslim leaders are fuming. Calling his words “hostile”. The words were TRUTHFUL. Muhammad took by the sword and across the Middle East, Europe, Africa and Asia we see similar activity today. What can’t be obtained by it being given to them, followers of Muhammad’s own teachings from the later part of his life, are obtaining via their own form of the sword, the bomb!

Muhammad told them they would get higher in heaven if they die in battle and they are going for it. They don’t want the freedom brought to Afghanistan or Iraq. They want the rule that has enabled them to ruin territory and abuse women around the world.
 
Not to hijack the thread. But I just wanted to share with you (for those that may not know about this book) The Life and Religion of Mohammed
by J.L. Menezes

It was written by a priest who tried to spread christianity to members of islam. It is very well written and shows what a made-up religion this is. Ex. Moh. wanted to marry his nephew’s wife after he died to add to his collection of wives. It was not allowed according to their law. So what happens??? Ahhh, Allah speaks to him and tells him it is OK, so he marries her and puts it in the koran.:confused:

My point is…apologize to people of a violent, false religion??? Never.
 
Muslims and many historians claim that violence was not the chief way Islam was propagated. That is was the exception to the rule. Can anyone provide reliable and unbiased historical studies to disprove this? I am being teased a lot at work because of the Pope’s comments. Why did he use such a controversial and potentially insulting quote. This quote directly links Muhammed to violence, not just a minority of muslims. This is a direct attack against Islam, or at least it seems so. Considering that the Church has a history of violence (i.e. Crusades, Inquisition, Heresy Laws, expulsion of Jews and Muslims from Spain), I’m having a difficult time defending the Pope. Christian and Jewish communities were “tolerated” for centuries in the Muslim world during the Middle Ages, or at least that’s what the historians say. I think the Pope should not have used that quote. We already have enough trouble with Terrorists as Americans to have more trouble with them as Catholics.

God Bless
 
Muslims and many historians claim that violence was not the chief way Islam was propagated. That is was the exception to the rule. Can anyone provide reliable and unbiased historical studies to disprove this? I am being teased a lot at work because of the Pope’s comments. Why did he use such a controversial and potentially insulting quote. This quote directly links Muhammed to violence, not just a minority of muslims. This is a direct attack against Islam, or at least it seems so. Considering that the Church has a history of violence (i.e. Crusades, Inquisition, Heresy Laws, expulsion of Jews and Muslims from Spain), I’m having a difficult time defending the Pope. Christian and Jewoish communities were “tolerated” for centuries in the Muslim world during the Middle Ages, or at least that’s what the historians say. I think the Pope should not have used that quote. We’re already have enough trouble with Terrorists as Americans to have more trouble with them as Catholics.

God Bless
Am I the only person who worked in a place where people didn’t “tease” each other because of their religion or current events concerning their religion? We were generally too busy working to be teasing people about the leaders of their faith.
 
Am I the only person who worked in a place where people didn’t “tease” each other because of their religion or current events concerning their religion? We were generally too busy working to be teasing people about the leaders of their faith.
Aren’t you in Seminary, and surrounded by other Catholics?
 
I am pretty sure he had a job before he went to seminary.

Now in reply to the teasing, the Pope is clearly saying that violence is bad, after a Pope has apologized for any misdeeds that people have done in the name of the Catholic Church.

Which makes any teasing type comment just a bigoted comment and not anything based upon sincerity. So I would point out that the Catholic Church has already apologized for any wrongs it’s members have done in the name of religion and is clearly against forceibly spreading the faith.

The problem with that logical understanding is, it is contrary to a bigoted view of the Church, which has to be attacked no matter what, by some people.

In Christ
Scylla
 
Am I the only person who worked in a place where people didn’t “tease” each other because of their religion or current events concerning their religion? We were generally too busy working to be teasing people about the leaders of their faith.
My employes tease me all the time about my being in “The One true Church” and i tease them about OSAS but in between we have some marvelous sharing of our Faiths.
 
Muslims and many historians claim that violence was not the chief way Islam was propagated. That is was the exception to the rule. Can anyone provide reliable and unbiased historical studies to disprove this?
Just read any history of Islam–try one very sympathetic to Islam, such as Marshall Hodgson’s three-volume Venture of Islam. Hodgson goes out of his way to disprove the claim that Islam spread primarily by violence. But he has an uphill task. He does show that in certain areas (Southeast Asia, for instance) it spread nonviolently. But it’s clear from his narrative (or any other historical account) that Islam took over the Middle East (North Africa to Persia), Spain, India, parts of Central Asia, and much of southeastern Europe through military conquest. The Ottoman Empire came into existence as a state dedicated to holy war against Christians. It’s not true that Islam spread only by conquest, but it certainly gained at least half its territory–I’d say quite a bit more than half–that way. Furthermore, Hodgson makes it clear (this is toward the end of the second volume, discussing mostly southeast Asia) that whenever Muslims reached a certain number they pushed for the introduction of sharia, and this is how many areas became Muslim. In many ways it’s more chilling–outright conquest we can resist, but who’s going to stop Europe from introducing shari’a when a majority of the population asks for it?
Why did he use such a controversial and potentially insulting quote.
Partly no doubt because he was in an academic context, and forgot that he is more than just an academic and that he can’t count on people hearing his remarks in context! But on the other hand, I think he was trying to throw down a challenge. If the Emperor is wrong, then show us. Talk to us about how Islam is a reflection of the divine Intellect. Show us how you as Muslims act “with logos.”

Responding to a theological critique with violence is simply inexcusable. Blaming the Pope for this reaction is nonsensical and unjust. Can’t you see how monstrous it is to refute the claim “Islam is violent” by acting violently? An apology would be a mockery after that. “Oh yes, I’m so sorry, the death of a nun and the burning of churches have convinced me that drawing a link between Islam and violence was completley unfair.”
This quote directly links Muhammed to violence, not just a minority of muslims. This is a direct attack against Islam, or at least it seems so.
The Pope has made it clear that he wasn’t endorsing that part of the Emperor’s remarks. However, Muhammad was a bloody conqueror–just like Moses and Joshua! Suppose a Buddhist were to blame Christian violence on the Biblical record of holy war. That would be a serious critique, and Christian theologian would try to answer it theologically. For Christians to start killing Buddhists in response would be obscene, and everyone would see it as such. But because of reflexive Western self-criticism (an admirable thing in many ways), we give any non-Christian religion a break.
Considering that the Church has a history of violence (i.e. Crusades, Inquisition, Heresy Laws, expulsion of Jews and Muslims from Spain), I’m having a difficult time defending the Pope.
Obviously that behavior is just as contrary to reason, and nothing the Pope suggested implied otherwise.
Christian and Jewish communities were “tolerated” for centuries in the Muslim world during the Middle Ages, or at least that’s what the historians say.
You should read the historians in more detail. Toleration was bumpy and uneven. For instance, the “taifa” states in medieval Spain were quite tolerant, but then the Almohads took over and swept away this “corruption.” Their intolerance led to Christian intolerance and eventually to the expulsion of Jews and Muslims. But–petty as it seems–the Muslims started it (never mind that they were the invaders in the first place). That doesn’t excuse Christians. But the claim that Islam was more tolerant than Christianity is a dubious one. On the whole, it seems to me that Muslims and Christians treated other religions much the same. Perhaps Muslims have a slight edge, but I’m not sure. The Crusaders, for instance, adopted the Islamic practice of “dhimmitude”–they did not force Muslims to convert. And on the other hand, Islamic “toleration” came with many of the same disabilities inflicted on Jews by medieval Christians–special dress, ritual humiliation, periodic outbreaks of violence at the slightest provocation.

Edwin
 
Why did he use such a controversial and potentially insulting quote.
Maybe he should have used some of our own Catholic history as an example, just as JPII expressed regret over.

Or maybe its to jump-start dialog between Islam and Catholics, which seems to be sorely lacking.

If he does reach out to Islam, will it be a one-way street as it seems to be with the Orthodox?
 
Hi,

I was wondering what all of you thought about this. On the news this am, they were satying that the muslim community wants an apology from the Pope.

As you all know Im not catholic, but Im not sure about this. The truth hurts sometimes. I think I agree with the Pope on this.

Do you guys think the Pope should apologize?

Peace

ALLFORHIM
Emphatically NO. The statement that adherents of Islam tend to riot destory the houses of worship of those they disagree with has once again proven to be true.
 
No.
If anything I would like him to say more. Allah is not the same God of the Jews and of the Christians.

There are some brave voices out there from our non-catholic brothers -in- Christ. They are saying what we should be saying. In stead we get hung up on the silliness or sinfullness or worthwhileness of hand holding while in prayer at Mass

But, he must balance the truth of what the koran says about forced conversion and death to Jews and crusaders with acknowledgemt that under the Roman Catholic Church name horrific deaths did occur.

Doxiemom
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
 
No.

Further, I believe it to be a good sign that his much touted “apology” was not for what he said, but the unanticipated reactions of the muslims. In effect, showing pastoral care without abandoning his position.

It is very sad that so many are only reinforcing the image that they supposedly are rejecting in their protests.
 
He has no reason to apologise!!!

He has invited Muslims to dialogue. They will not enter into dialogue, becuase everything these extremists do is totally against what the Qu’ran writes. So they have nothing to base there dialogue on apart from “the world should be rid of infidels”, which has pretty much been mis-interpreted. Much the same as biblical fundamentalists.

Question: Would the world actually listen to Islam if they had no oil ? ? ? Islam would probably not be much of a religion!
 
STOP THE FORUMS!!!

WE ALL AGREE!!!:eek: :eek:

PRAISE THE LORD!!😃

:dancing: :bowdown2: :bounce:
I disagree.

The Pope should apologize, even if his words were misconstrued.

It seems analogous to making a joke, but then someone taking it completely the wrong way.

If the counterparties are offended, then as Catholics, we should apologize.

What prevents an apology? Pride?
 
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