Should there be actions taken to improve or even control immodest dress at mass?

[clock]

Get a new outfit.

no because if you feel uncomfortable wearing those types of cloths then when your sitting in church your not fully there. Your physically there, but thats it, because your constantly thinking about what other people are thinking about you because your uncomfortable.

I think it must more of a problem in the US than the UK, people don’t wear low-cut tops and scraggily cloths over here I don’t think!

 

[mammallama]

Dress codes like this can disenfranchise some people, especially the poor.

What is a poor family to do when they can not afford clothing that other people deem acceptable.

I am more concerned with what is in peoples’ hearts than what they wear.

My only stipulation for dress is that one not dress as if they are going out to a night club.

As long as what they are wearing is clean and modest, I am happy.

Dress codes seem to be like the arugments on how to recieve the Eucharist (in the hand or on the tongue, kneeling or standing) and whether it is more reverent to allow the Eucharist to melt rather than to chew it. It all seems that some people wish to enforce their views of what is “reverent” on everyone else rather then just worrying about themselves.

Agreed,to a point…the town closest to me has 100,000 people and about 10 churches.Couple in the lower-income part,couple in the upscale area and so on.Not a lot of public transportation,so folks tend to go to church in their own neighborhoods.I live way out here in the boondocks and belong to the Cathedral parish but sometimes attend Mass at other locations,usually the mission churchs in the older,poorer parts of town(they are quite beautiful btw!)…It’s a shame to see people come to Mass dressed as if they’re going to the yatch club swimming afterwards,and then on the other side of town the poorest of the poor are are wearing the best they own be it a 30 year old dress or bib-overalls with a bow-tie.I’ll break bread with the “commoners” anyday.

 

[SwizzleStick]

• No clothing with questionable graphics or verbiage.
• No revealing tops, sleeveless tops or bare midriffs.
• No blue jeans.
• No shorts.
• No skirts/dresses above the knee.

Those 5 points would clean-up a GREAT deal of the problem attire we all see at Mass.

…Some people get extremely uncomfortable in dressy cloths, like the first time you wear heels out when your 13 and think everyones staring at you because you think their SO loud. When mum used to make us get dressed up all I could think about is that everyone was staring at me, instead of what was going on during the mass.

The dress code offered by the OP is actually pretty simple and not at all fussy and is not really “dressy” at all. With what was written, I do not even see a need to wear heels. It seems more like “casual Friday” type of stuff to me and just basic, modest dress.

I don’t think one needs a lot of clothes. I know I sure don’t have many Church clothes as a SAHM and I wear things over and over again and so do my children. My husband has more clothes because he needs them to go to work. Maybe some would be critical of our practice of wearing the same outfits repeatedly, but at least we are dressed to reflect where we are, what is happening, and in Whose presence we are during Mass.

 

[SeekerJen]

• No clothing with questionable graphics or verbiage.
• No revealing tops, sleeveless tops or bare midriffs.
• No blue jeans.
• No shorts.
• No skirts/dresses above the knee.

Those 5 points would clean-up a GREAT deal of the problem attire we all see at Mass.

The Vatican dress code does not say “no jeans”. Thus I think it is unrealistic to impose that restriction on individual parishes.

Otherwise- right on. I would also include “nothing that looks painted on”.

 

[GodsGadfly]

Why is it that the response to “dress modestly” is “what about the poor?”

The poor can’t afford to cover their bodies?

In my experience, the cheap clothes these days are the modest ones.

A ditzy co-worker who had recently gotten a management job once insisted that the streetwalker outfit she was wearing was appropriate for work because it cost her a lot of money.

To me, “no jeans” should be more like “no tight-fitting jeans” or “no low-cut jeans.”
I don’t care if people wear their sweats to Mass, so long as their bodies are covered.

 

[ellammcg]

Given your example, I would not let the teen wear the tight shorts regardless of her feeling “awkward” without them.

I think that at the end of the day we lead by example as well as by direction. If a child doesn’t come out of his/her room wearing appropriate attire for Mass, they should be sent back to their room to try again. But again… if these boundaries are set when they are young, the odds are that this will be a non-issue.

My sons (6, 15, 18) have never really been an issue except not being thrilled at having to wear a suit to morning church. They have learned to accept it and stopped complaining years ago.

My oldest daughter (21) is one of those who had to be sent to her room repeatedly to change into something more appropriate for church. Some Sundays I thought we were never going to make it there! She is on her own now and she still dresses modestly and appropriately for church (especially Sunday morning).

I agree that parents set the standard for their children. (I remember in California that one of the deacons asked my husband how he managed to get our sons to wear suits. My husband looked at him quizzically and said “I just tell them”.)
I have stressed modesty to my children, especially my daughters, for years. They were not even allowed to purchase immodest attire to wear ever (and yes, I checked). Clothes shopping was very difficult but we perservered. (I did carefully explained why modesty is so important.) I just keep praying that by the grace of God they keep steadfast to the end.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, the idea behind the code is not only modesty, but also respect.

There are always going to be the poor. But here’s the thing about blue jeans: Even though they have been around since the late 19th century, most people (and I mean men, because until the 1930s the concept of slacks for women as respectable wear in public didn’t exist --bloomers or jodphurs were strictly for sports activities, not for wearing at other times) did not wear blue jeans, even on a majority of jobs. And the ones who did wear them on the job still wore other clothes ‘off the farm’. The tramps and homeless men even of the 30s and 40s would sometimes wear jeans but more often wore thrift store or donated ‘regular’ pants which of course would ‘wear out.’ (Jeans wore out, too).

The idea that the homeless and the poor are out there with ‘nothing to wear but blue jeans’ isn’t supported though.

In fact, it is far more likely to be the ‘average’ person who ‘lives’ in blue jeans. The person who has enough money to buy a simple skirt, dress, or dressy pants but prefers jeans because, "they look better. I feel better. I don’t want to stand out. I don’t want to make the poor feel bad.’ Etc.

Some (though not all) jeans are ‘modest’ in that they cover the legs. But if ‘blue jeans are all right’ is part of the code, then the low rise, the baggy, the tattered, the spangly, the skin-tight, etc. are 'they’re jeans and it says ‘jeans are allowed’ bones of contention. And we still have not addressed the ‘respect’ part.

An army of people in church dressed in jeans. . .when 90% or more would be dressed in much more formal attire if they were in someplace ‘important’. . .isn’t really respecting God to the fullest extent, are they? An army of people in church dressed in jeans when 90% of them are doing so not for ‘modesty’ reasons or ‘fellowship with the poor’ reasons, but purely and simply because they themselves want to wear the jeans because they don’t want to ‘bother’ getting ‘dressed up’ for God --IOW, God is not important enough to them for them to put themselves out in even the smallest way–is not really respecting God to the fullest extent.

And that’s a reason why ‘blue jeans’ should be on the list. Because too many people have ‘abused’ their wearing and too many people are more concerned about their own ‘comfort’ and not about respecting God. Too many people are more inclined to find fault with the idea that they are ‘lacking’ and to point the finger of ‘elitist’ and ‘discriminator’ at those who are telling them the unpalatable truth that it is quite possible that ‘their comfort’ is not as important as ‘God’s glory.’

And of course, there should be provision made (as there is now, in many cases) to have plenty of clean and appropriate clothing of all sizes for men, women, and children available and rooms for men and women to put the clothes on, so that in cases of need, any person coming to church may find clothing for his needs. This, of course, would not only solve the problem of people being dressed modestly and appropriately, it would also be helpful to those in need who would thus have an opportunity to get the clothing they need but could not otherwise afford.

 

[clock]

The dress code offered by the OP is actually pretty simple and not at all fussy and is not really “dressy” at all. With what was written, I do not even see a need to wear heels. It seems more like “casual Friday” type of stuff to me and just basic, modest dress.

I don’t think one needs a lot of clothes. I know I sure don’t have many Church clothes as a SAHM and I wear things over and over again and so do my children. My husband has more clothes because he needs them to go to work. Maybe some would be critical of our practice of wearing the same outfits repeatedly, but at least we are dressed to reflect where we are, what is happening, and in Whose presence we are during Mass.

haha no I wasn’t saying wear heels to mass, it was an example of when you did, because of the clicking-clocking you felt like everyone was staring at you, because of the noise

No shorts and no blue jeans, means to me that it would be dressy. Because you wear jeans everywhere, so the places you don’t, you are making an effort for e.g wedding, concert etc etc. Ooops, I think I may have just ruined my own point you are meant to make a effort for church right?
Ok fair do’s, BUT (gosh I’m awfully argumentative today) in my church everyone wears casual cloths. Ive never seen anyone under 65 in a dress and so you would REALLY stand out, as if you were turning it into a fashion show (english expression maybe)

p.s sorry I don’t know what SHAM is

 

[clock]

But if ‘blue jeans are all right’ is part of the code, then the low rise, the baggy, the tattered, the spangly, the skin-tight, etc. are 'they’re jeans and it says ‘jeans are allowed’ bones of contention. And we still have not addressed the ‘respect’ part.

skinny jeans are frowned upon, low rise AND baggy.
I didn’t think skinny jeans were frowned upon, ok so I didn’t even realise jeans were inappropriate before this forum

 

[b_justb]

clock:

ok so I didn’t even realise jeans were inappropriate before this forum

Don’t let the peanut gallery dictate your spirituality.

 

[SeekerJen]

skinny jeans are frowned upon, low rise AND baggy.
I didn’t think skinny jeans were frowned upon, ok so I didn’t even realise jeans were inappropriate before this forum

Watch any televised Mass from the Vatican. You will see people in jeans. The Vatican has a dress code that it enforces strictly. Obviously the Vatican does not have a problem with neat, decent jeans. I don’t personally wear jeans to Mass unless I’m working the SVDP clothing drive truck before Mass, but until the Vatican bans jeans in its own dress code, I refuse to call out someone else for wearing them to Mass.

I think some jeans are inappropriate. We should not be able to see the wearer’s underwear. If we can, the jeans are either too low cut or too baggy. The jeans should be neat and not dragging on the floor. The jeans should not be skin-tight. If one can tell what kind of underwear you’re wearing even if your underwear is completely covered, or if you have to lay down to get your jeans zipped up, then those jeans are too tight to be modest. This goes for all pants, IMO.

 

[rotlex]

While I agree to an extent, and myself and my family always wear our Sunday best to mass, I think if something like this were implemented, you would simply see even LESS people attending mass.

The Catholic church needs to find a way to BRING people back to mass, not new ways to get them not to attend.

 

[surfinpure]

Oh, I’m not so sure. For hundreds, even over a thousand, years, women were pretty modest. Its only since the 60’s that things have gone over board. In the great scheme of things, thats pretty much overnight

(Tangent Warning)

Believe it or not, we started to go downhill bigtime around 1920, when Coco Chanel introduced “flapper” dress, the “bob” haircut, and a whole new “party” lifestyle. Read Dressing with Dignity, by Colleen Hammond, for a shocking history of women’s fashions. You’ll find that in the late 1800s the Freemasons plotted amongst themselves to destroy the Catholic Church by degrading (gradually undressing) women.

(End of tangent)

 

[clock]

Watch any televised Mass from the Vatican. You will see people in jeans. The Vatican has a dress code that it enforces strictly. Obviously the Vatican does not have a problem with neat, decent jeans. I don’t personally wear jeans to Mass unless I’m working the SVDP clothing drive truck before Mass, but until the Vatican bans jeans in its own dress code, I refuse to call out someone else for wearing them to Mass.

I think some jeans are inappropriate. We should not be able to see the wearer’s underwear. If we can, the jeans are either too low cut or too baggy. The jeans should be neat and not dragging on the floor. The jeans should not be skin-tight. If one can tell what kind of underwear you’re wearing even if your underwear is completely covered, or if you have to lay down to get your jeans zipped up, then those jeans are too tight to be modest. This goes for all pants, IMO.

haha just realised in one of the US states its illegal to wear your jeans too low isn’t it (?), mine are definitely not that baggy lol, or that tight for that matter (thay have to be able to handle the sunday dinner and not need un-doing )

 

[Carjack1]

• No clothing with questionable graphics or verbiage. This I could adhere to as I wear nothing that has questionable verbiage
• No revealing tops, sleeveless tops or bare midriffs.I don’t wear sleeves in the summer, but midriff and cleavage are covered
• No blue jeans.My husband wears jeans and there is no problem with that
• No shorts. I wear Capris. Do those count
• No skirts/dresses above the knee.This is reasonable

Those 5 points would clean-up a GREAT deal of the problem attire we all see at Mass.

I disagree with this dress code.

 

[Holly3278]

Yes, and I am a female Roman Catholic. I do believe that action should be taken to improve or possibly even control immodest dress at Mass. What should be done? I don’t know.

 

[SwizzleStick]

…OOk fair do’s, BUT (gosh I’m awfully argumentative today) in my church everyone wears casual cloths. Ive never seen anyone under 65 in a dress and so you would REALLY stand out, as if you were turning it into a fashion show (english expression maybe)

p.s sorry I don’t know what SHAM is

Most of the people who dress for Mass (as opposed to coming from the beach) at my parish wear casual clothes too, as in “Friday casual.” I don’t wear a dress either since I HATE hose. I wear a nice pants suit or a nice pair of slacks and a blouse or a sweater, sometimes a tailored jacket in cooler weather.

Sorry to confuse you, but I am a SAHM (not SHAM), which means stay-at-home-mom, certainly not a big fashion person. My clothes basically consist of shorts and tee-shirts during the summer and running wear and tee shirts in the winter, nothing fancy. But, I do like to dress a bit better when I go to Mass and other dressier times, so I do have a few clothes for that purpose.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Why is it that the response to “dress modestly” is “what about the poor?”

The poor can’t afford to cover their bodies?

In my experience, the cheap clothes these days are the modest ones.

This was not what I said.

My response came to when people started to define what they mean by “dress modestly” to include no shorts or jeans.

If you read what I said again you will see that I summed up my point as the cloths one wears should be clean and modest. This can include jeans and shorts.

And by the way, this is a very bad poll as once can select all four boxes when they vote. Just as I did!

 

[Popes_Soldier]

Dress codes like this can disenfranchise some people, especially the poor…

Thats ridiculous. Its not a matter of the quality of the clothing, its a matter of modesty.

Its not hard to figure out that girls should not wear clothes that are splitting at the seams and exposiing 3/4 of their breasts. Good Lord, lets use some common sense.

Any parent that lets their kid dress that way needs to learn how to parent. And any adult that comes to church dressed that way should know better, and the priest should put them in check.

By God, people are lucky that I’m not a priest. I’d crack the whip on all the stupid stuff I see at Mass.

 

[JRKH]

haha no I wasn’t saying wear heels to mass, it was an example of when you did, because of the clicking-clocking you felt like everyone was staring at you, because of the noise

No shorts and no blue jeans, means to me that it would be dressy. Because you wear jeans everywhere, so the places you don’t, you are making an effort for e.g wedding, concert etc etc. Ooops, I think I may have just ruined my own point you are meant to make a effort for church right?

Ok fair do’s, BUT (gosh I’m awfully argumentative today) in my church everyone wears casual cloths. Ive never seen anyone under 65 in a dress and so you would REALLY stand out, as if you were turning it into a fashion show (english expression maybe)
p.s sorry I don’t know what SHAM is

How about suits and ties. I can tell you that my wife and I stand out every Sunday, and we are Glad we Do. Even when we Go to Saturday Mass, (4:00 pm and 95 degrees sometimes) we get dressed up. I in my Suit, she in her very nice, Pant suit. We do get stared at, and commented on, but in a positive manner. Now some might say that we are doing this “for show” and we are. Not to draw attention to ourselves, but to cause others to maybe consider their own clothing choices. (By the way I am a long way from 65 yet )
Our Dear Lord Sacrificed, Hung on the Cross and Bled to death that we might be saved. I can sure wear and tie for an hour and a half.

To all my brothers and sisters in Christ, I say - STAND OUT - LETS MAKE IT A FASHON SHOW FOR GOD - FOR MODESTY - FOR REVERENCE - FOR PRAISE - FOR GLORY OF OUR FATHER AND OUR LORD.

By the way, I’m not 100% opposed to jeans, but they need to be plain, clean, modest, and in good condition. Also, if you have a better option, you should wear that. In any case we should be wearing our best Clothes to visit with Our God. Of course some leeway can be made for weekday mass, or outdoor masses etc. But I think mostly we are talking about Sunday Mass here.

Peace
James