Should there be actions taken to improve or even control immodest dress at mass?

[Popes_Soldier]

I think if a pastor was VERY respected and if he used great tact, things would change.

He could put a short essay in the bulletin explaining the need to dress better. He could preach on the same subject. Most importantly he could then thank those who made the effort.

If it took hold, peer pressure would do the rest.

Unfortunately, a lot of priests are scaredy-cats. They’re afraid to tell it like it is on a whole host of issues. A great bishop in Oakland, Alan Vigneron, put out a statement about homosexuality after they okayed same-sex marriage in Calif., and asked that it be published in parish bulletins. Half the parishes declined. There you go.

I don’t know what the problem is with so many priests. What is it about 6 years in seminary that turns so many of them into pantywaists, I have no idea

 

[pentecostbaby]

I live in the South. Saying “no shorts” is like condemning us to sweat - specially since our air conditioner is broken. I’m not advocating hot pants! Plus, down here most men manage to look pretty dressed up wearing shorts. Same goes for flip-flops - the nice ones, like Rainbows.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Hi pentecostbaby! I live in the South too. And when I look over at the Baptist Church and the Episcopal Church and the Church of Christ etc. etc. I do not see people wearing blue jeans and shorts. I see them looking mighty 'dressed up." And they don’t even have the Real Presence the way we do!

Now, there may be places where they do wear them. Of course, there are also Catholic churches in the South where even when it is 107 heat index you still don’t see anybody under the age of 9 wearing shorts.

Even 40 years ago not only did we ladies wear dresses and stockings (with garter belts AND foundation garments and dress shields and hats and gloves) and closed toe shoes. . .the gentlemen wore suits. . .shirt, vest, pants and jacket and tie. And it was just as hot back then as now. And there was LESS air conditioning than there is now.

40 years ago about the only difference between the Catholics and Protestents visibly was that there would be more Catholic women wearing a veil than a hat–although plenty would still wear hats. And of course, at First Communion and Confirmation time you’d see the girls in the white dresses. Boys almost always wore suits all the time.

About those shorts --would a person still wear them to the best formal restaurant in town? For a ceremony where they were being given an award? If they were meeting some important dignitary?

Probably not. From what I hear (not from you personally), the idea seems to be that the concern we should have is about being ‘comfortable’’, and often on further questioning people seem to think that there isn’t any occasion that is worth ‘dressing’ for. This is not only very ‘new’ in human history, it actually flies against the human psyche. Human beings have always thrived on the social aspects of ritual and tradition. The breakdown of ritual and tradition is the hallmark of a decaying or dying society. And the ‘scrapping’ of appropriate dress and the idea that clothing is not ‘important’ and only ‘comfort’ matters is indeed a breakdown of ritual and tradition.)

And aside from flip flops being noisy (there’s a reason for that name, you know), and dirty (even the cleanest person gets filthy feet wearing flip flops because the whole foot gets ‘exposed’ in walking), haven’t you read the latest studies from the orthopedic surgeon–they are bad for your feet.

I have heard the arguments about "God doesn’t care how we’re dressed’ and “it’s too hot not to wear shorts etc.” like a million times. . .and I do think that there is another side. . . one that argues that there is a greater need for all people to take a little more time and effort (and even some occasional sweating) in order to be more respectful of our Lord and King. It might not be a point of view you’re seen in the last 40 years. It might seem strange. . .a lot of people condemn it as ‘too much’ but I’m asking you and others to bring this to God, and consider this and not to reject it outright.

 

[Chris-WA]

Hi pentecostbaby! I live in the South too. And when I look over at the Baptist Church and the Episcopal Church and the Church of Christ etc. etc. I do not see people wearing blue jeans and shorts. I see them looking mighty 'dressed up." And they don’t even have the Real Presence the way we do!

Now, there may be places where they do wear them. Of course, there are also Catholic churches in the South where even when it is 107 heat index you still don’t see anybody under the age of 9 wearing shorts.

Even 40 years ago not only did we ladies wear dresses and stockings (with garter belts AND foundation garments and dress shields and hats and gloves) and closed toe shoes. . .the gentlemen wore suits. . .shirt, vest, pants and jacket and tie. And it was just as hot back then as now. And there was LESS air conditioning than there is now.

40 years ago about the only difference between the Catholics and Protestents visibly was that there would be more Catholic women wearing a veil than a hat–although plenty would still wear hats. And of course, at First Communion and Confirmation time you’d see the girls in the white dresses. Boys almost always wore suits all the time.

About those shorts --would a person still wear them to the best formal restaurant in town? For a ceremony where they were being given an award? If they were meeting some important dignitary?

Probably not. From what I hear (not from you personally), the idea seems to be that the concern we should have is about being ‘comfortable’’, and often on further questioning people seem to think that there isn’t any occasion that is worth ‘dressing’ for. This is not only very ‘new’ in human history, it actually flies against the human psyche. Human beings have always thrived on the social aspects of ritual and tradition. The breakdown of ritual and tradition is the hallmark of a decaying or dying society. And the ‘scrapping’ of appropriate dress and the idea that clothing is not ‘important’ and only ‘comfort’ matters is indeed a breakdown of ritual and tradition.)

And aside from flip flops being noisy (there’s a reason for that name, you know), and dirty (even the cleanest person gets filthy feet wearing flip flops because the whole foot gets ‘exposed’ in walking), haven’t you read the latest studies from the orthopedic surgeon–they are bad for your feet.

I have heard the arguments about "God doesn’t care how we’re dressed’ and “it’s too hot not to wear shorts etc.” like a million times. . .and I do think that there is another side. . . one that argues that there is a greater need for all people to take a little more time and effort (and even some occasional sweating) in order to be more respectful of our Lord and King. It might not be a point of view you’re seen in the last 40 years. It might seem strange. . .a lot of people condemn it as ‘too much’ but I’m asking you and others to bring this to God, and consider this and not to reject it outright.

Excellent post. What is it about us Catholics that makes us so wimpy about dressing nicely for mass? Other religions seem to cope with the heat just fine and still wear pants and regular shoes. I lived in the South for three years and never wore shorts or flip-flops (totally inappropriate) to mass. You don’t need to wear a suit and tie, but for goodness sakes, out of respect for the mass and other worshipers around you, stop whining and put on a pair of pants and shoes.

I would ask those of you who dress for mass like you’re going to the beach to spend a little time considering what the mass really is and what really happens there. In the Western world we dress for the occasion. For weddings, job interviews, funerals, and other formal events we dress up, regardless of whether it’s muggy and hot. This indicates the relative importance we attach to the event. Now can anyone here give me a more important example of an event than the holy mass? I’ll give you a hint–as a believing Catholic, there is nothing more important! The mass is not a “service” we attend. It is so much more than that. It is where heaven touches down to the earth and where the marriage supper of the Lamb transforms ordinary bread and wine into the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. Jesus is truly present there, along with the angels and saints. That takes faith, but once you let that metaphysical truth sink in and start to really appreciate the ramifications, you realize that it might justify showing up in something a little better than shorts and flip-flops.

 

[GodsGadfly]

1. I don’t see what it matters what kinds of shoes someone wears. I saw somewhere else the other day where someone was complaining about a female college student wearing glow-in-the dark flipflops to evening Mass on campus. I pointed out that maybe she wore them for safety.
2. I’m not a big fan of “blue blazer with brass buttons” Catholicism, but there’s a big difference between dressing fancy and dressing modestly. Yes, living in the South it is hot, but as already noted, most Protestants dress up big time for church. I have a heart condition, and I can’t take the heat. usually, if it’s too hot to dress properly for Mass, I’m not well enough to go to Mass. But only rarely do I come to Mass in shorts, and that’s if I’m going to daily Mass while running errands.
3. Sometimes churches are nice enough to put smocks out front for us when we don’t have time to change.
4. I have two favorite anecdotes about modesty: one is when I was kneeling in front of my my wheelchair, in the back of church, and a teenaged girl walked past me in jeans where the waist was cut way too short. Her waist was right at my eye level, inches away from my face, and I’m not sure how to phrase it delicately, but I saw more than i needed to of her front.
5. Once, three girls were sitting in the row in front of us, wearing completely sheer tops with colored bras underneath. They acted strangely all through Mass. And when two the three went up for Communion, each tried to steal a Host: one was caught by the priest but the other, who went to the EMC, succeeded.
6. In Spring 07, I had a routine of going to daily morning Mass with my kids at least 2 days a week, on days we had to run morning errands. It was nice because we were living in the town where I grew up, and I had old friends who could help me divvy up the duties.

Well, one morning we got to Mass, and it was a school mass. I realized I had absent-mindedly put on shorts, so I was kind of nervous. My son (then 1 and a half) was sleeping, so I carried him in with a large baby blanket draped over my body.

None of my friends were there that day, so my eldest daughters both sat with me in the back room. Well, as Mass progressed, Joe woke up, but I had to take him to the cry room, but the girls didn’t follow. The air conditioning was on pretty high, and it wasn’t very hot yet, so the church was freezing.

A few minutes later, I saw the girls moving around in the pew.
Then they stopped.

When I came out, they were both sleeping under that blanket!

 

[Tantum_ergo]

GG–your children sound adorable! I totally identify. Hope that you’ll continue to have a blessed and happy life raising your family!

 

[Rawb]

I used to attend Mass with my grandparents.

If I showed up in jeans, my grandmother smacked the back of my head.

The fact is that jeans are casual. Shorts are casual. If that’s all you have, of course, come with what you can, but for the majority of us, we need to realize just Who we are seeing.

This is not about judgement either. If I see someone in jeans, I’ll charitably assume they have nothing else to wear. This should be about how you are appreciating the Real Presence of Christ.

Also, I live in the central valley in California. It reaches over 105 degrees here in summer. You don’t have to wear a wool suit to look appropriate, slacks and a polo can work, but claiming “it’s just too hot, I must have shorts” for an hour in the morning or evening? That’s stretching it a bit.

 

[Rickwood]

I also don’t think t-shirts on men are appropriate at Mass. I cannot play golf without a collared shirt. I think God deserves at least as much as the golf course.

So that’s a total of six things. If all Catholics adhered to those six things, things would be a GREAT deal better.

 

[Tietjen]

This is a response to post #5.
IMO, this post is so incredibly off-base.

Well, I thank you for your opinion. I don’t think it’s “off-base” I think that you are simply against holding teens accountable. That’s just my opinion though.

There are many wonderful parents who set boundaries when children are young and do absolutely EVERYTHING right as a parent.

Everything? Really. I’d like to meet those parents.

But the kids rebel when they get to be teenagers.

… and the parents then did what?

If this didn’t happen to you, it’s not because of your great parenting. It’s because God chose to allow your children to remain well-behaved even as teenagers.

I never claimed to be a great parent. Just one with a little common sense, love for my children, and a deep desire to see them grow up to be respectable and productive adults… both inside the Church as well as in society.

Other families aren’t so lucky. God allows the teenagers to express their rebellion, and it tears the family apart. And when people say, “If only you had set boundaries when they were little, this wouldn’t be happening to your kids right now”–well, that is just so offensive and hurtful and cruel.

If I have offended you or anyone else here by sharing my experience with this subject, I apologize. Hear YE Hear YE… let all know once and for all, that I do NOT abdicate boundaries on children. I applaud allowing children to set standards in the area of dress, as well as most other areas because as we all know… children ALWAYS know best… especially teens.

Do you also tell people suffering from lung cancer–“See, you should have given up smoking!” Talk about Job’s comforters!

Lady… with all due respect, you are way out there. Re-read my post.

Kicking their kids out or telling them that they can’t come into the building isn’t going to help these hurting families, and this approach may hurt them so badly that they will never come back to church. And then their souls will be on OUR heads and we will be accountable.

All because we told them no mini-skirts at mass… now you would have us believe that we are bound for hell.

If men (or women) are offended or aroused by an immodestly-dressed woman in Mass, they should remove themselves from the temptation by walking away from it, going to the other side of the church building, or even leaving the Mass and returing at a “safer” time when the tempting woman is not around.

Of course, avoiding personal responsibility for one’s actions or the clothes they wear seems to be an on-going theme of yours. After all if a woman dresses immodest and draws the attention of males it’s only the men that are at fault. The woman has no responsibility in the matter. I’m sorry lady, you are either very young or very naive. God bless you.

 

[sancte_joseph]

I go to mass in blue jeans sometimes, and in shorts during the summer. I don’t see how those two attire qualify as problem attire.

Why can’t you give the best for God?

 

[reff]

I definitely agree, for a young man like me it’s so hard to stay focused when the attractive young ladies come in dressed immodestly. It’s seems to be a problem with a number of the youth at my parish, including men coming in with tank tops and baggy shorts. I really think they need to put a sign up on the doors or something. At my parish they have a sign that says to turn off all cell phones, etc. I don’t see why having a sign about a dress code would hurt.

 

[LutheranDK]

• No clothing with questionable graphics or verbiage.
• No revealing tops, sleeveless tops or bare midriffs.
• No blue jeans.
• No shorts.
• No skirts/dresses above the knee.

Those 5 points would clean-up a GREAT deal of the problem attire we all see at Mass.

Again, I’m not RC so some would say this is none of my business, but I am curious:

I understand the other four, but I can’t see the problem with blue jeans, as long as they cover all? Is it specifically blue jeans that’s a problem, and what about black jeans, for instance?

Again: Maybe none of my business, but the “blue jeans” just doesn’t make sense to me…

 

[Popes_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cat
*This is a response to post #5.

IMO, this post is so incredibly off-base.

There are many wonderful parents who set boundaries when children are young and do absolutely EVERYTHING right as a parent.

But the kids rebel when they get to be teenagers*

Well, if they rebel on Sunday morning and wear inappropriate clothing, they should be left at home or forced to change their clothes. If a parent can’t handle that simple issue, then they have problems

 

[clock]

• No clothing with questionable graphics or verbiage.
• No revealing tops, sleeveless tops or bare midriffs.
• No blue jeans.
• No shorts.
• No skirts/dresses above the knee.

Those 5 points would clean-up a GREAT deal of the problem attire we all see at Mass.

Thats me chucked out then
I honestly would own no cloths that would be appropriate. The only bottoms that aren’t jeans are shorts and the only dress I own is my old prom dress from two years ago. You won’t find me anywhere near a skirt.
Some people get extremely uncomfortable in dressy cloths, like the first time you wear heels out when your 13 and think everyones staring at you because you think their SO loud. When mum used to make us get dressed up all I could think about is that everyone was staring at me, instead of what was going on during the mass.

And what do you mean by sleeveless? Sleeve’s all the way to your wrist?

 

[Newbie2]

Yeah, no shorts would be a problem…does that cover those pants that women wear (sorry ladies…no offense meant), I forget what they’re called, except they look to me like “flood water pants”, that go up to mid-calf?

That’s why we’ll never have a dress code…nobody can agree what’s entirely appropriate.

But I do agree that many things cross the line.

 

[Rickwood]

Again, I’m not RC so some would say this is none of my business, but I am curious:

I understand the other four, but I can’t see the problem with blue jeans, as long as they cover all? Is it specifically blue jeans that’s a problem, and what about black jeans, for instance?

Again: Maybe none of my business, but the “blue jeans” just doesn’t make sense to me…

Saying “RC” to mean the Catholic Church is a slur around these parts…

Blue denim (the original) is not considered very dressy in the US. Many places have a specific prohibition against blue denim.

 

[Rickwood]

Thats me chucked out then
I honestly would own no cloths that would be appropriate. The only bottoms that aren’t jeans are shorts and the only dress I own is my old prom dress from two years ago. You won’t find me anywhere near a skirt.
Some people get extremely uncomfortable in dressy cloths, like the first time you wear heels out when your 13 and think everyones staring at you because you think their SO loud. When mum used to make us get dressed up all I could think about is that everyone was staring at me, instead of what was going on during the mass.

And what do you mean by sleeveless? Sleeve’s all the way to your wrist?

Get a new outfit.

 

[b_justb]

A Simple Dress Code for Mass

Come to Mass with a broken and contrite heart.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Dress codes like this can disenfranchise some people, especially the poor.

What is a poor family to do when they can not afford clothing that other people deem acceptable.

I am more concerned with what is in peoples’ hearts than what they wear.

My only stipulation for dress is that one not dress as if they are going out to a night club.

As long as what they are wearing is clean and modest, I am happy.

Dress codes seem to be like the arugments on how to recieve the Eucharist (in the hand or on the tongue, kneeling or standing) and whether it is more reverent to allow the Eucharist to melt rather than to chew it. It all seems that some people wish to enforce their views of what is “reverent” on everyone else rather then just worrying about themselves.

 

[SwizzleStick]

• No clothing with questionable graphics or verbiage.
• No revealing tops, sleeveless tops or bare midriffs.
• No blue jeans.
• No shorts.
• No skirts/dresses above the knee.

Those 5 points would clean-up a GREAT deal of the problem attire we all see at Mass.

My family follows these guidelines already.

As far as the shorts issue, I do not even let my 5-year old wear shorts to Mass. I tell my kids that one would not wear shorts to a wedding or funeral out of respect for either the couple or the deceased, so why would one wear shorts to Mass? I’ve been to weddings and also funerals in August in churches without air conditioning and have been really hot and uncomfortable, but I would never dream of attending without proper attire. If mere humans and their occasions are worthy enough to get dressed up for and to respect, I think we can manage it for our Lord also. I’m not saying that we dress to the 9s, but remembering that the Mass is a prayer and a reverent event and reflecting that fact in our attire is not too much to demand of my own family.