Should there be actions taken to improve or even control immodest dress at mass?

[JRKH]

While I agree to an extent, and myself and my family always wear our Sunday best to mass, I think if something like this were implemented, you would simply see even LESS people attending mass.

The Catholic church needs to find a way to BRING people back to mass, not new ways to get them not to attend.

I’m sorry if you honestly think that fewer people would attend mass if a reasonable dress code were introduced. Personally i don’t see that happening. Few if anyone here feels that everyone should be “dressed to the nines” as the old saying goes. The thrust is to reign in things that are obviously in poor taste as church attire.
If someone stops attending mass because they are not allowed to wear their favorite skin tight low rider jeans and low cut tank top with matching push-up bra then I suggest they might be attending for the wrong reason to begin with.
OK I may be overstating just a bit, but I have seen dress at our church that is comparable.

While I think that it is important that the “powers that be” (pastors etc) approach this carefully and tactfully, I do think it should be addressed. for instance, a priest could write a homily on the importance of modesty and chastity. This could include examples of immodest dress. If he writes this homily on wednesday in his study, he won’t be singling anyone out at mass. Of course if someone happens to be dressed that way, they may feel a bit embarassed, and that might not be a bad thing.

You say that we need to do things to bring more people in to mass, but it needs to be for the right reasons to and showing off skin is not it. The point is not to put people in the pews, it’s to get them into heaven.

Peace
James

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I’m sorry if you honestly think that fewer people would attend mass if a reasonable dress code were introduced.

Please define “reasonable dress code”.

 

[rotlex]

I’m sorry if you honestly think that fewer people would attend mass if a reasonable dress code were introduced. Personally i don’t see that happening. Few if anyone here feels that everyone should be “dressed to the nines” as the old saying goes. The thrust is to reign in things that are obviously in poor taste as church attire.
If someone stops attending mass because they are not allowed to wear their favorite skin tight low rider jeans and low cut tank top with matching push-up bra then I suggest they might be attending for the wrong reason to begin with.
OK I may be overstating just a bit, but I have seen dress at our church that is comparable.

While I think that it is important that the “powers that be” (pastors etc) approach this carefully and tactfully, I do think it should be addressed. for instance, a priest could write a homily on the importance of modesty and chastity. This could include examples of immodest dress. If he writes this homily on wednesday in his study, he won’t be singling anyone out at mass. Of course if someone happens to be dressed that way, they may feel a bit embarassed, and that might not be a bad thing.

You say that we need to do things to bring more people in to mass, but it needs to be for the right reasons to and showing off skin is not it. The point is not to put people in the pews, it’s to get them into heaven.

Peace
James

I agree, 100%, but my point was missed I guess. It seems that the Church needs to be less concerned with things such as this at the moment, and more concerned with why they are losing parishioners. I guess I’ve just been frustrated lately. In my area, attendance is down, parishes are closing, and more folks seem to be leaving the church than ever. I think that’s a bigger concern right now that making sure someone is dressed properly.

 

[Popes_Soldier]

Please define “reasonable dress code”.

There was a Justice (I forget his name) who once said that he didn’t know how to define pornography, but he knew it when he saw it.

I think we all know improper, immodest dress when we see it. This ain’t about “definitions”, its about common sense and common decency - two concepts that people these days seem to have difficulty with.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

There was a Justice (I forget his name) who once said that he didn’t know how to define pornography, but he knew it when he saw it.

I think we all know improper, immodest dress when we see it. This ain’t about “definitions”, its about common sense and common decency - two concepts that people these days seem to have difficulty with.

Right, which is what I said. Clean modest cloths.

But it seems others wish to have a actual dress code that lists what one can wear. Such a thing goes against what you have said. They seem to wish to define it and make everyone live by their opinion rather than accepting that there might be differences in opinion as to whether or not shorts and jeans are “reasonable”.

The Church will never come up with such a dress code and shame on those who wish to exclude others who do not meet what they deem as acceptable.

 

[clock]

How about suits and ties. I can tell you that my wife and I stand out every Sunday, and we are Glad we Do. Even when we Go to Saturday Mass, (4:00 pm and 95 degrees sometimes) we get dressed up. I in my Suit, she in her very nice, Pant suit. We do get stared at, and commented on, but in a positive manner.

ooo no compliments are a big no-no, I attempt to stand in the crowd attempt as in it never happens, I always end up the one in the middle of the circle telling the jokes:shrug:

(By the way I am a long way from 65 yet )

sound like something someone 65 would say to me

Our Dear Lord Sacrificed, Hung on the Cross and Bled to death that we might be saved. I can sure wear and tie for an hour and a half.

hour and a half? 45 mins more like

To all my brothers and sisters in Christ, I say - STAND OUT - LETS MAKE IT A FASHON SHOW FOR GOD - FOR MODESTY - FOR REVERENCE - FOR PRAISE - FOR GLORY OF OUR FATHER AND OUR LORD.

Gosh you americans are very dramatic aren’t you !

By the way, I’m not 100% opposed to jeans, but they need to be plain, clean, modest, and in good condition. Also, if you have a better option, you should wear that. In any case we should be wearing our best Clothes to visit with Our God. Of course some leeway can be made for weekday mass, or outdoor masses etc. But I think mostly we are talking about Sunday Mass here.

Peace
James

Peace

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I don’t think that those of us who are attempting to give some guidelines for what has historically been acceptable clothing are out of line, though.

I for one understand that there are a lot of people who disagree with the idea that jeans might be inappropriate for most (not all) people. . .simply because they have never entertained the idea that there should be ‘appropriate’ dress per se (specific), or because they think that modest only means ‘certain areas covered’,or because they think it would put undue hardship on ‘the poor’ or even because it would put undue hardship on **them **because they personally don’t like wearing anything much other than jeans and if people are saying jeans are not appropriate for Mass, they take it as a personal criticism on their lifestyle outside Mass and get defensive.

So what we need is almost a ‘re-education’ and a ‘reformation’ that combats some of the really dreadful propaganda that has gone through Western society in the last 100 years or so that has been intent on turning the majority of the people into lazy and slothful beings **spiritually **by obliterating tradition and fuzzing up virtues to the point that people actually now think that the **really virtuous thing to do **when attending Mass is to dress with absolutely no consideration at all as to whether Mass is ‘something special’, but simply not to care about one’s appearance because if we ‘care’, we are taking the focus away from our relationship with God.

It is quite frankly diabolical and one of Satan’s great successes that he has been able to take something so much a part of human psyche–the need for ritual and for the showing of respect–and turn it around so that people **now **often seem to think that any ‘going out of one’s way’ or any attempt to mark something as ‘special’ is actually disrespectful (usually of the poor), is something elitist (instead of being so ‘common’ to humanity that it’s actually the ‘modern’ stance that is itself ‘elitist’), and is ‘burdensome’.

The only thing I’ll point out–and it is not directed to any individual per se --is that all through these types of threads the main thing I hear is “I, I, I” and “me, me, me” and when God is mentioned, it is always, “God doesn’t care what I wear”. The great god ‘me’, my comfort, my opinion, my standards, my expectations, my ‘reading of God’s intent’ etc. is always to the fore.

Very few actually are going beyond the knee-jerk ‘defense’ of perceived ‘criticism’ to explore the history of the Church and of the Mass, and the history of how people have viewed Mass and how they have approached Mass. . .where they might get more of an idea of what “God wants” having had many many years of ‘example’ that long predate a **societal change **that was thrust upon us with no rhyme or reason, and that many nonEuropeans (and some Europeans, and some of us Americans/Canadians) **still, **try to combat . .against the lockstep ‘deconstructionism’ of much of the Western world today. . .deconstructing our clothes, our cultures, our religion, etc. etc.

 

[JRKH]

ooo no compliments are a big no-no, I attempt to stand in the crowd attempt as in it never happens, I always end up the one in the middle of the circle telling the jokes:shrug:

Well it’s not like people are fawning over us, but our deacon came up and said we were teh “best dressed” couple in Church. The simple fact that it is noticed is part of the point. Note that I don’t mean “We” are noticed, but that our mode of “Dress” is noticed.

sound like something someone 65 would say to me

Sorry - I’m 53

hour and a half? 45 mins more like

Well I put on my suit and tie BEFORE I leave the House and only take it off AFTER we get Home.
Mass is about 1 hr, we generally get there 10 to 15 minutes early, (more if we are going to confession) then we stay 5 to 10 minutes after, praying and greeting. We live close so it’s only about 5 minuest each way so that’s another 10 minutes. Sounds like an hour and a half to me.

Gosh you americans are very dramatic aren’t you !

I won’t Argue with that one. - by the way American is CAPITALIZED.

Sorry - just kidding - Got dramatic on you agian - - - -

Peace

Back at ya

Peace
James

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Maybe we could change it so that everyone wears a vestment like an altar boy outfit and we just put it over our street clothes when we get to church.

 

[Popes_Soldier]

…The Church will never come up with such a dress code and shame on those who wish to exclude others who do not meet what they deem as acceptable.

The Church won’t, but parish priests SHOULD.

And the shame belongs on those who dress that way, not those who try to keep the Mass sacred. What’s wrong with you anyway.

 

[clock]

Well it’s not like people are fawning over us, but our deacon came up and said we were teh “best dressed” couple in Church. The simple fact that it is noticed is part of the point. Note that I don’t mean “We” are noticed, but that our mode of “Dress” is noticed.

ooo hats off to you :tiphat:

Sorry - I’m 53

You are forgiven, I’m 18

Well I put on my suit and tie BEFORE I leave the House and only take it off AFTER we get Home.
Mass is about 1 hr, we generally get there 10 to 15 minutes early, (more if we are going to confession) then we stay 5 to 10 minutes after, praying and greeting. We live close so it’s only about 5 minuest each way so that’s another 10 minutes. Sounds like an hour and a half to me.

You see we do things differently over here. We get out of bed and brush our teeth, don’t worry about washing the rest of your body, jump into the car whilst still in pajamas and change whilst driving 5 mins before you arrive. This means that if you have chosen to dress up, the uncomfortable smart cloths will be worn for a minimal amount of time Do not get there early under any circumstances as you wouldn’t want people to think your too eager now would you? Now you don’t want to be rude and leave before the priest or the last song has finished, but you preferbly want to beat the stampead out the door, you don’t owe these people a conversation, so don’t have one.
And that is how to get in and out in 45 min And maximum time in bed also, and you have an extra long fast before communion because the last time you ate was the night before, smart

I won’t Argue with that one. - by the way American is CAPITALIZED.
Sorry - just kidding - Got dramatic on you agian - - - -

It’s best not to argue, lets face it, I’m English, I’ll always win

Back at ya

ditto

 

[Popes_Soldier]

I think protestants could teach us a thing or two here. Most of them dress up very nice for church. A lot of Catholics are slobs at my parish. I saw a guy putting extra hosts back in the tabernacle wearing flip-flops, shorts, and a ratty old t-shirt. Now tell me that’s not disresptcful in the worst way.

Catholic USE to dress nice in the old days. I don’t know what happened to our people.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Yes, people ‘used to’ set aside “Sunday best” and to try to dress appropriately, differentiating between attire that was suitable for formal functions, for public but less formal functions, for job-related functions, for public leisure functions, and for private, or ‘home’ related functions. You knew that certain outfits were appropriate for one function but not for another. You tried to dress to reflect your ‘best’ --not necessarily ‘income’ wise either, but to express the person you wanted to be–and what you were trying to be throughout a HEALTHY society was a modest, sober, and upright person.

Only in decaying and dying societies did the reverse start to happen where instead of trying to dress appropriately and with care and attention and modesty, people instead tried to ‘push the envelope’ and to dress to shock, to distract, to promote lustful attention, to rebel–not only among the youth–who historically would be the most -style conscious as youth and then take up the ‘sober’ appropriate clothing as they matured --but the older generation itself embracing the shocking.

And it could come about because you can have a lot of style ‘changes’ that are good, or neutral. Lengths of jacket for men, breeches vs. pantaloons, the cut of a sleeve on a woman’s dress, uses of certain fabrics or colors–all of these are reflective of good and natural changes that reflect a healthy desire not to look like robots or clones day in, day out, year in and year out.

So it is easy to mix in with the ‘good’ changes first the slightly questionable changes. . .and once those get accepted, start to make the more shocking ones. That’s what happened in the last 100 years. Little things would get argued for as necessary and practical, therefore ‘acceptable’. . .and then once the first thing was accepted, more extremes were pushed. Who would have thought the bathing suit of 1900 --itself a shocking change from full length coverage of male and female to the wrists and the ankles to elbow length sleeves and knee length hose. . .would have turned into trunks ONLY for men 50 years later–and to the maillot one-piece for women. . .and that the ONE piece would turn into the bikini, the string bikini, and now in many cases either a thong alone or the casual acceptance of public nude bathing?

That’s what we have had in the last 100 years–a rebellious society that wants to throw out ‘stuffy tradition’ in favor of a supposedly better and ‘freer’ society where ‘anything goes’ and sex sells.

 

[surfinpure]

I agree, 100%, but my point was missed I guess. It seems that the Church needs to be less concerned with things such as this at the moment, and more concerned with why they are losing parishioners. I guess I’ve just been frustrated lately. In my area, attendance is down, parishes are closing, and more folks seem to be leaving the church than ever. I think that’s a bigger concern right now that making sure someone is dressed properly.

I believe it’s worth considering that we are losing parishoners partly because we are watering down our worship! In places where orthodoxy is cultivated, we see spiritual renewal cropping up among the faithful. Catholics are tired of a wishy-washy, anything goes, feel-good, warm-fuzzy, cafeteria-style faith. And one tenet of this style is a loss of standards – of behavior, of morals, and even of dress. Therefore an awakening of true Catholic values, including modesty and reverence, can only help bring a starving mass of lukewarm believers back to vitality!

 

[Popes_Soldier]

I agree, 100%, but my point was missed I guess. It seems that the Church needs to be less concerned with things such as this at the moment, and more concerned with why they are losing parishioners. I guess I’ve just been frustrated lately. In my area, attendance is down, parishes are closing, and more folks seem to be leaving the church than ever. I think that’s a bigger concern right now that making sure someone is dressed properly.

That depends on why we are losing them. If its due to poor Catechesis, then, yes, we should be concerned. I might add that poor Catechsis could be tied in with this subject too, because if people understood that the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christs is truly present on the altar, they might be more apt to look presentable when they approach HIM. People dress immaculately if the are invited to a White House dinner. Is not Jesus more important than the president?

If we are losing people because they are being consumed with other matters, or their faith is weak, I say, cut the dead wood loose. That may sound rude, but worldly people are the very people that are sucking the church down into mediocrity. We don’t need the Kennedys and Pelosies who promote vile ideas that are contrary to Catholic teaching. Those people should be excommunicated, and the wishy washy Catholic is free to move toward the exit door as far as I’m concerned.

Heck, sometimes I avoid mass myself, because I can’t stand seeing the goofy things that occur at mass in our parish. Sometimes I can only stomach so much.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The thing with wanting to ‘cut the dead wood loose’ is actually a loving response even though it might not appear so (and particularly if it is phrased just that way without any qualification. Understandably, it can get ‘tiring’ dealing with difficult people/situations but we have to try to be Christ-like in our thoughts, words and actions at all times).

If by ‘cutting the dead wood loose’ we understand that this is not a 'if you’re not 100% with us as we see it, then you’re no good and get out of OUR church". . .

but instead. . .“This is our true faith. We know the teachings can be hard. But you must be with us 100% --not just ‘as we see it’ but always and only ‘as God sees it’ for it is HE whom we serve and this is HIS request. . .not ours alone. Therefore, we will pray for you continually to accept us so that you will be with us 100%. If you feel you cannot do that now, then you must indeed go --not by “our” will, but by God’s, who will not take ‘lukewarm’ behavior or denial of His teaching. . .but we will pray and sacrifice daily for you in the hopes that you will be able to accept fully and to come back to the fullness of truth. We know you ‘must’ go now, but we pray you will return, with all your heart and soul, as quickly as possible.”

If people understood that in speaking of ‘having to cut the dead wood’ that we mean the kind of pruning where we do so to get the best growth–and **that the growth comes from the pruned parts when the pruning has been done correctly–**they will see that the desire to ‘cut the dead wood’ is praiseworthy and loving of our fellow Christians, and not a hateful act.

 

[Blueberry]

Well, when I was visiting a church, the priest that reprimanded me for genuflecting before receiving the Precious Body of our Lord (I was so upset I didn’t even stay after, I just left the church crying.) was not thinking, “At least she’s at Mass.” He was thinking, “We’ve got to stamp out this terrible problem.”

 

[Popes_Soldier]

Well, when I was visiting a church, the priest that reprimanded me for genuflecting before receiving the Precious Body of our Lord (I was so upset I didn’t even stay after, I just left the church crying.) was not thinking, “At least she’s at Mass.” He was thinking, “We’ve got to stamp out this terrible problem.”

That priest was out of line. Just as I have no problem with wishy washy Catholics leaving the Church, I also have no problem telling a priest when he’s wrong. One time I had a verbal knock-down drag-out fight with a priest who said Mother Angelica was basically a trouble maker. What a day THAT was.

You should have told that priest what time it was, I sure would have. Go back next Sunday and do the same thing, and this time, instead of crying, give him a piece of your mind after mass.

 

[ellammcg]

I believe it’s worth considering that we are losing parishoners partly because we are watering down our worship! In places where orthodoxy is cultivated, we see spiritual renewal cropping up among the faithful. Catholics are tired of a wishy-washy, anything goes, feel-good, warm-fuzzy, cafeteria-style faith. And one tenet of this style is a loss of standards – of behavior, of morals, and even of dress. Therefore an awakening of true Catholic values, including modesty and reverence, can only help bring a starving mass of lukewarm believers back to vitality!

And we all know what the Lord says about lukewarm: "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." KJV Rev 3:15-16

 

[Pax2u]

As the grandmother of two lovely young ladies, I purchase clothes for them often. And let me tell you, it’s a real challenge to find modest clothing for them in the stores these days (and they are aged 10 and 12…not 25 and 30!!!). I refuse to buy them anything that is immodest (and their parents are totally supportive of that, as well).

My heart aches when I see girls at Mass dressed in inappropriately revealing clothing (always accompanied by at least one parent). They obviously either don’t have a clue that it is inappropriate, don’t care, or parents refuse to use their parental authority to insist on modest clothing. If the parents don’t get it, we certainly can’t be surprised that their children don’t.

I personally don’t have a problem with “casual” clothing at Mass…I don’t even notice what people wear on their feet, and living in a resort-vacation area, shorts don’t bother me if they are knee length and not skin-tight (though I would never wear them). But shirts with inappropriate messages on them, micro-mini skirts, and cleavage…all bad distractions, and disrespectful to the Lord.

I’ve never known a priest who would say a word about this (though I’ve heard some say in meetings that they wished it didn’t happen–they just don’t feel they should say anything). I think they should touch on the topic of modesty in dress a couple of times a year (preferably in the fall/winter when chances are everyone is covered up and won’t feel like they are being singled out in the middle of Mass). For some, it may be the only talks they ever hear on this topic, and could help them make better choices in the future.

I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen, though.