Should we even have EMHC's?

[Strummer]

Perhaps it should be recognized that while the extention of the celebration of the Mass, is not necessarily a bad thing, just what part of the Mass would be elongated by the absence of EMHCs: essentially the waiting for everyone else to receive Communion. Sure, there may be music for some of this but for these large parishs with over 1000 would mean doubling the duties of the music minister and musicians. Furthermore, as outlined above, not all families and/or individuals are of a disposition that can endure such a long period of inactivity. This would, in fact, serve only to *remove *them from the meditative, spiritual place that Holy Communion should be empowering.
Back in the days of small neighborhood parishes and plenty of preists, foregoing EMHC’s was a simple decision. The simple realities and resources of the day lead us in a different direction.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Perhaps it should be recognized that while the extention of the celebration of the Mass, is not necessarily a bad thing, just what part of the Mass would be elongated by the absence of EMHCs: essentially the waiting for everyone else to receive Communion. Sure, there may be music for some of this but for these large parishs with over 1000 would mean doubling the duties of the music minister and musicians. Furthermore, as outlined above, not all families and/or individuals are of a disposition that can endure such a long period of inactivity. This would, in fact, serve only to *remove *them from the meditative, spiritual place that Holy Communion should be empowering.
Back in the days of small neighborhood parishes and plenty of preists, foregoing EMHC’s was a simple decision. The simple realities and resources of the day lead us in a different direction.

Agreed!

In fact, the Monasteries that I often attend Mass at, have plenty of priest, and a small crowd. They have no need for EMHC’s.

Jim

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

So you want a Mass where the largest amount of time is distributing Holy Communion?

Thats what would happen if EMHC’s were no longer allowed.

Jim

No, I want a Mass that isn’t governed by a clock. For instance, at my parish, Msgr. has on occasion told us to recite the Gloria instead of chanting it because it takes too much time (an extra 2-3 minutes maybe).

I also seriously doubt that non-use of extraordinary ministers of holy Communion would significantly lengthen Mass in the average parish. In my Diocese, I would say the average Mass attendance is about 200-300 per Mass. And at some of the urban Churches, you’re lucky if 100 people show up. At my own parish, it can take up to five minutes for Msgr. to distribute the sacred vessels to all the extraordinary ministers and for everyone to get into place. On an average Sunday Mass (~ 200 people) the actual distribution takes between 5-10 minutes (that’s Msgr. and one extraordinary minister distributing the Hosts and two extraordinary ministers distributing the Blood). If it was just Msgr. distributing the Body and Blood so that the initial organization doesn’t take place, then the total time would be approx. the same (~10-20 minutes).

Of course the statistics start seeming awkward when you start talking of parishes with 3000 families. There is only one parish in my Diocese that has that many families. I’m not certain if that parish currently has one or two Priests (it has been a little tumultuous since their long time Paster died several months ago - eternal life grant unto Him, O Lord). Given average statistics, say that 30% attend any given Sunday. Assume an average family size of three. They have six Sunday Masses. That works out to an average of 450 per Mass. Even with just one Priest, it would be under 25 minutes for the total reception. That doesn’t seem to justify the five extraordinary ministers (all distributing the Hosts) I have seen there on my visits.

Please note - I am not condemning the use of extraordinary ministers. As the Vatican has approved it, it is ultimately between a Priest and his Bishop - and I will support the Bishop in his decision. My questions are they are actually needed (remember this is a discipline and not a doctrine), whether they are used more frequently than they should be, and whether their use is in the right intent (i.e., not meant to make people feel like they are participating).

 

[MrS]

So you want a Mass where the largest amount of time is distributing Holy Communion?

Thats what would happen if EMHC’s were no longer allowed.

Jim

Interesting.

Today our pastor talked about the four levels of prayer.

The first and lowest is petition… always asking for something
Next is thanksgiving… obvious
Third is contrition… something we perhaps don’t do often enough
The highest level is Adoration… something we certainly don’t do often enough.

Occasionally I will be at a Mass where the celebrant elevates the host and chalice for quite some time… 10 seconds or more. Personally I don’t think it is long enough…so I love adoration because the elevation is near forever.

IMHO I think the overuse of well meaning EMHCs is at best their desire to pray in that first level.

Those who like a short Mass perhaps will then pray in the second level.

After 5 years of regular Adoration, I am unaware of either of those two groups actively (not just occasionally) involved in Adoration. That is not to say I am better than they. I do know better than that. I only thank God for trying to make me better than I was.

May I never feel worthy to handle the Lord. May I never desire a liturgy that is more horizontal than virtical. May I simply take what the Lord gives me, and give Him whatever is His will… with a smile…

.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Interesting.

Today our pastor talked about the four levels of prayer.

The first and lowest is petition… always asking for something
Next is thanksgiving… obvious
Third is contrition… something we perhaps don’t do often enough
The highest level is Adoration… something we certainly don’t do often enough.

Occasionally I will be at a Mass where the celebrant elevates the host and chalice for quite some time… 10 seconds or more. Personally I don’t think it is long enough…so I love adoration because the elevation is near forever.

IMHO I think the overuse of well meaning EMHCs is at best their desire to pray in that first level.

Those who like a short Mass perhaps will then pray in the second level.

After 5 years of regular Adoration, I am unaware of either of those two groups actively (not just occasionally) involved in Adoration. That is not to say I am better than they. I do know better than that. I only thank God for trying to make me better than I was.

May I never feel worthy to handle the Lord. May I never desire a liturgy that is more horizontal than virtical. May I simply take what the Lord gives me, and give Him whatever is His will… with a smile…

.

I think it was Saint Teresa of Avila who wrote that many will never make it past this first phase of prayer toward the inner rooms of the castle.

 

[NoPlaceLikeRome]

Should we even have Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion?

No.

 

[Cobbfmly]

So, let me get this right…

EXTRAordinary now means common practice to some … hence, don’t take away their perceived right to “help” the priest. Perhaps extraordinary really means allthetimeisordinary.

"Too long of a Mass…" is one of the first concerns of said group. That in itself says a lot. Afterall, the football game only is supposed to last 60 minutes

Extraordinary - In my parish EMHC’s do not perceive being EMHC’s as a right. Our pastor has made it very clear that they are extraordinary ministers and when there are additional ordinary ministers at a mass, the EMHC’s are not to serve.

Too long of a Mass - In our parish, it isn’t a matter of keeping the mass short for convenience. It is a matter of how long can masses be and still be able to allow all parishoners to meet their Sunday obligation without having the fire department shut down the mass due to overcrowding.

 

[maryelizabeth1]

It’s hard for me to see people wearing jeans (in the summer shorts and sandals) up on the alter. I used to receive from EMHC’s, but now I will only receive from the priest, even if I have to wait a little longer. I purposely sit where I know the priest will be standing for communion. I have seen by a couple of different EMHC’s dropping the consecrated host on the ground. I just don’t think that people who aren’t ordained should be distributing communion.

 

[maryelizabeth1]

It’s hard for me to see people wearing jeans (in the summer shorts and sandals) up on the alter. I used to receive from EMHC’s, but now I will only receive from the priest, even if I have to wait a little longer. I purposely sit where I know the priest will be standing for communion. I have seen by a couple of different EMHC’s dropping the consecrated host on the ground. I just don’t think that people who aren’t ordained should be distributing communion.

 

[Sir_Knight]

It’s hard for me to see people wearing jeans (in the summer shorts and sandals) up on the alter. I used to receive from EMHC’s, but now I will only receive from the priest, even if I have to wait a little longer. I purposely sit where I know the priest will be standing for communion. I have seen by a couple of different EMHC’s dropping the consecrated host on the ground. I just don’t think that people who aren’t ordained should be distributing communion.

What happens when you become ill and homebound? Will you still refuse to receive from an EMHC when he comes to bring our Lord to you? Because, with the number of priests decreasing, chances are that a priest will not be available to bring communion to you. Will you give up the graces and blessings that come from receiving our Lord just because an EMHC brings Him to you?

And if you receive from an EMHC under those conditions, then why not at mass?

 

[Cobbfmly]

It’s hard for me to see people wearing jeans (in the summer shorts and sandals) up on the alter…

Where is your pastor? If any EMHC at our parish showed up dressed like that on the day they are to serve, they would no longer be an EMHC.

 

[palmas85]

According to who, you or the celebrant?

Jim

Hi Jim. If you believe that expediency should be the norm then please point out to me where it says that. I’ve looked through Canon Law and cannot find any thing that says Communion MUST be expeditiously delivered to the receipients.

In fact, as far as I know, Extraordinary Ministers are NOT supposed to be used at all Masses and especially if there are other Priests or deacons available to distribute.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

In fact, as far as I know, Extraordinary Ministers are NOT supposed to be used at all Masses and especially if there are other Priests or deacons available to distribute.

The last part depends on each individual parish. If the priest wants to delegate duties this way, that is part of his duties. To use or not to use is a local parish issue.

 

[japhy]

Here is a link to the document regarding EMHC’s.

Here is a link to the document explaining Communion under both kinds and in the hand.

Neither of those are in the Constitution on the Liturgy from Vatican II.

 

[Sir_Knight]

The last part depends on each individual parish. If the priest wants to delegate duties this way, that is part of his duties. To use or not to use is a local parish issue.

Exactly.

And it is the Pastor of that parish, who should make that decision and not the folks in the pews.

 

[lak611]

Neither of those are in the Constitution on the Liturgy from Vatican II.

I never claimed that they were.

 

[japhy]

lak611:

The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy provides the norms for the Novus Ordo

Really? Where is the “Communion in the hand” norm? Where is the EMHC norm? Where is the widely applied Communion under both kinds (see the examples provided in n. 55).

Here is a link to the document regarding EMHC’s.
Here is a link to the document explaining Communion under both kinds and in the hand.

Neither of those are in the Constitution on the Liturgy from Vatican II.

I never claimed that they were.

JimR said Sacrosanctum Concilium had the “norms for the Novus Ordo”, and I asked where particular norms were found in that document. I’m entirely aware of the GIRM and various documents from the USCCB, but I disagree that Vatican II produced the norms for the Pauline Mass.

 

[lak611]

lak611:

JimR said Sacrosanctum Concilium had the “norms for the Novus Ordo”, and I asked where particular norms were found in that document. I’m entirely aware of the GIRM and various documents from the USCCB, but I disagree that Vatican II produced the norms for the Pauline Mass.

You are correct, japhy.

 

[anamchara]

Where is your pastor? If any EMHC at our parish showed up dressed like that on the day they are to serve, they would no longer be an EMHC.

That’s interesting cobb, I noticed we are from the diocese. We do have some EMs show up in jeans but they are nice looking ones with a nice blouse and nice shoes. I’m thinking of darker blue jeans as well not really faded ones.

 

[palmas85]

The last part depends on each individual parish. If the priest wants to delegate duties this way, that is part of his duties. To use or not to use is a local parish issue.

Actually the Priest** HAS** to distribute. That is not an option for him. If there are other Priests or Deacons present they are to help with distribution. That is not a option either. Sorry, but that is just the way it is.