Should We Recite the "Pledge of Allegiance?"

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What in my post was militaristic?

In my parish we pray for our political leaders, our soldiers in uniform and our akkies every week. Today we recognized the virtues of St. George, a patron of soldiers whose feast was commemorated on Saturday.

If you can explain to me one particular of how my post was evidence of excessive militarism I would be much obliged. Your saying so does not make it so.
 
Elaine's Cross:
Not counting family or clan, Catholic first, Louisianian second, Southerner third, USA citizen fourth.

Although this country has done some wonderful things, it has a most checkered history and the government has evolved into a Leviathon that was not envisioned by the Founding Fathers. That was changed by the War for Southern Independence. The South was much more in tune to the concept of limited government than the North was.
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Yeah that darn ol’ government wanted to interfere with owning slaves. They shoulda’ kept their noses out of those plantation owners business right? PUH LEASE!

Lisa N
 
Elaine's Cross:
Not counting family or clan, Catholic first, Louisianian second, Southerner third, USA citizen fourth.

Although this country has done some wonderful things, it has a most checkered history and the government has evolved into a Leviathon that was not envisioned by the Founding Fathers. That was changed by the War for Southern Independence. The South was much more in tune to the concept of limited government than the North was.
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Yes, the South was much more in tune with limited government than the North was. Only problem was the sticky situation of owning human beings.

With regards to the unjust war in Iraq: blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Same old tune.
 
I refuse to say the pledge and have for 20+ years. My allegience is not to a piece of cloth but to the ideas contained in the ink on a piece of parchment - the divinely inspired U.S. Constitution.
 
If there is a phrase or words in the Pledge to object to, it’s “one nation” “indivisible”. This wording would be totally alien to the Founding Fathers.

Nevertheless, try to remember the crucial distinction between the country and the government. I say the Pledge because I love my country, even though I hate some of the things the government does. The flag represents real patriotism, a true love of country. It doesn’t necessarily represent what the government does.
 
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Peter_Atlanta:
the divinely inspired U.S. Constitution.
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Doubtful seeing it’s had to be fixed 27 times and that the original inferred that black people weren’t fully human:rolleyes:
 
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Genesis315:
Doubtful seeing it’s had to be fixed 27 times and that the original inferred that black people weren’t fully human
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The 2/3rds vote for blacks didn’t have anything to do with being human or not. It was politics, pure and simple. The North insisted on it, for they felt that if the blacks could vote the South would have an advantage.
 
Elaine's Cross:
A belief in God yes, as promulgated by Deists and Protestants, not the Holy See.

Besides, this country did quite all right without a pledge of allegiance for over 100 years and the citizens of these united states had a great deal more liberty in the 100+ years without the pledge than in the 100+ years subsequent to it.
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I will not subscribe to your liberal interpretation of history, and your a sophist.
 
I don’t think that anyone here can argue that our allegiance to God and the Church is sometimes, perhaps often, at odds with our allegiance to country. While I’m not sure any one here is guilty of this, I think it is important to recognize that we could easily mix up our priorities in this regard. We are obliged to be active in our faith and address the ways our faith and fidelity to country contradict, but at times, to be at odds with our country and in line with our faith, we may need to at least temporarily abandon a pledge to remain allegiant to the actions of our country in order to be a positive part of change toward a more faithful government…

At times when I have felt a true contradiction, I have simply closed my eyes when others pledge or sing, and silently prayed the Hail Mary. I do this because I love my country.
 
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cathyt:
I don’t think that anyone here can argue that our allegiance to God and the Church is sometimes, perhaps often, at odds with our allegiance to country. While I’m not sure any one here is guilty of this, I think it is important to recognize that we could easily mix up our priorities in this regard. We are obliged to be active in our faith and address the ways our faith and fidelity to country contradict, but at times, to be at odds with our country and in line with our faith, we may need to at least temporarily abandon a pledge to remain allegiant to the actions of our country in order to be a positive part of change toward a more faithful government…

At times when I have felt a true contradiction, I have simply closed my eyes when others pledge or sing, and silently prayed the Hail Mary. I do this because I love my country.
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God, family, country, government. In that order for me please.
 
Yes, the South was much more in tune with limited government than the North was.
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One of the great myths of the South. The Confederate government was far more oppressive than the Federal government. From the onset of hostilities, the exploits of drunken recruits prompted communities from Selma to Lynchburg to beg the centralized government in Richmond to impose martial law. Southern citizens resigned themselves to a passport system for domestic travel similar to the system of passes imposed on enslaved and free blacks before the war. These restrictive measures made commerce difficult and constrained religious activity. Southerners accepted the passports as a necessary inconvenience, ignoring the irony that the necessities of national mobilization had changed their government from a states’-rights confederacy to a powerful, centralized authority.
 
“Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s.”

Despite the Roman Empire’s agression, Jesus didn’t say withhold your taxes; he didn’t tell the soldiers he encountered to desert and become pacifists, he didn’t deny the authority that Pilate held over him in the secular world.
 
Elaine's Cross:
To use the “n” word in my home would reward one with a smack.
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That’s funny, because in my house we didn’t even know that
there was an “n” word.:tsktsk:
 
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gilliam:
The 2/3rds vote for blacks didn’t have anything to do with being human or not. It was politics, pure and simple. The North insisted on it, for they felt that if the blacks could vote the South would have an advantage.
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Yes indeed. The number of representatives is based on population and if all of the blacks were included the south would have an advantage. Thus the (IMO disgraceful) 3/5ths of a person rule.

Lisa N
 
Since our unjust invasion of Iraq, I cannot recite the “Pledge of Allegiance.” As an un-Reconstructed Southerner, I find this article most thought-provoking.
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I may be wrong, but I am guessing that you aren’t in school anymore and that there are few if any situations where you are required to say the Pledge anyway. This whole post seems to be an attempt to bait a few people while getting in some anti-American and anti-church jabs. That being said, I want to point out a few things.

First, in order for your first statement (quoted above) to be logical, you would have to be uninformed of the actual wording of the pledge. Nowhere does it say that we are approving of or endorsing all of the decisions of our country’s leaders. It is a pledge of fidelity to our country.

Since you seem to be fond of hyperbole, let me make a comparison. In the 40’s, Hitler and his “government” committed awful acts. Most Germans hated what the government was doing. Did this mean that they hated their country? No, it meant that they hated what Hitler was doing to and in the name of thier country. If anything, their love of country made them hate him more.

Second, your line of thinking reminds me of those hollywood wackos who said they would have to go live in Canada if Bush was re-elected. Way to show love of country!!! Instead of working to improve things you vote with your feet. In your case, you are dumping on our country and our flag because you don’t agree with the current administration. Your own original post tells us that your decision not to say the pledge only happened since the Iraq war and yet is somehow related to Bellamy’s supposedly checkered politics over 100 years ago??? Sorry, I don’t buy it.
 
The flag of the United States represents the Constitution of the United States. If you don’t honor the flag, you don’t honor the Constitution.

A lot of very good men and women died for that Constitution that keeps you safe at night and keeps the tyrants at bay, while carrying and honoring the flag that represents it.

There are a lot of other people in the world who would pay any price to live under that flag.
 
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