Should Women Wear Veils In Church

[BSHoop96]

Struggling,

The fact that Mary has appeared with a veil might be due to the fact that she is a 1st century AD Jewish woman. It is not a sign to all of us to wear veils. She commonly is portrayed in blue, does that mean women should all wear blue to church.

This is silly. Wearing veils is a fine tradition, but it is not in any way indicative of holiness or required.

Absolutely agree.

 

[BSHoop96]

But she’s not in the context of 1st century AD Judaism. She is in heaven with Our Lord and she has appeared in the 20th century. I just find it curious that the model for women always has her head covered.

Pax Christi tecum.

Oh my gosh, would you expect her to appear in a tank top and shorts? She appears so that She is known and recognized. We all know Her in her blue and head covered.

 

[strugglingalong]

In 2008 it does not make you an object of desire if your hair is uncovered. Now maybe you could compare a female showing her hair in Christ’s time to some ridiculously low-cut blouse today.

That is one reason but not the only. It is also a sign of the sacred and of humility. However if women would stop chopping all their hair off then maybe their hair would again be an issue but most women have hair so short you can’t tell if they’re a man until they turn around. Sorry, it’s true.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[strugglingalong]

Oh my gosh, would you expect her to appear in a tank top and shorts? She appears so that she is known and recognized. We all know her in her blue and head covered.

And there is a reason why her head is covered - it’s her humility, a sign of being the handmaiden of Our Lord.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[BSHoop96]

Just curious…

Has anyone on this thread confessed sitting with people of the opposite sex (even family members) in church prior to 1983?

I sat with my boyfrield. I wasn’t even Catholic at the time. He was.

 

[mammallama]

In 2008 it does not make you an object of desire if your hair is uncovered. Now maybe you could compare a female showing her hair in Christ’s time to some ridiculously low-cut blouse today.

Believe me,I complain about that all of the time,and did so on this same thread.Today’s exchange has been all over the place so I can understand how you might have missed a posting back on page such and such.I am all for a mandatory dress code for all people of all ages.I’ve been crabbing about that over on the ‘family issues’ section…oh **** the russians are invading Georgia…

 

[BSHoop96]

And there is a reason why her head is covered - it’s her humility, a sign of being the handmaiden of Our Lord.

Pax Christi tecum.

Well we’ll just have to disagree. I think she is in the clothing of her time, as were ALL the women except the fallen.

 

[BSHoop96]

That is one reason but not the only. It is also a sign of the sacred and of humility. However if women would stop chopping all their hair off then maybe their hair would again be an issue but most women have hair so short you can’t tell if they’re a man until they turn around. Sorry, it’s true.

Pax Christi tecum.

Hmmmm…you do know it’s 2008, right?

 

[strugglingalong]

Hmmmm…you do know it’s 2008, right?

Yes, sadly. The modern world has lost its way in so many facets of life.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[Ceil-1]

For you sticklers out there.

My friends and I have flirted with this issue for some time, thanks to the example of some very holy women. I know many holy women who do not veil, and take communion in the hand. I feel the need for it because of my sinfulness in the past, and the humility it brings me. It is a mortification, of sorts. This is how it was explained to me. Also, the presence of the holy angels and of the Lord at Mass and Adoration.

Certain sanctimonious types should not give their opinions because it has the effect of coming across as such. This is why the Church should speak up about these things. Well, I can’t help it if the authorities have no back bone. Yes, it is a holy and pious thing to do.

That being said. I look like a fool in a veil. I look like a fool in a bandana. I cannot find the right hat to wear. The best I can do is a scarf tied on like a head band. Different colors to go with what I am wearing. My kids (who said to me at one time “Mom why aren’t you wearing a veil?”) tell me I look like I’m from the 60’s. Well, I can live with that. So, perhaps one can grow into a veil via scarf or hat.

Is that adequate? Or does it have to be a lace veil? How far must I go to get the job done?

 

[nsm]

I have started wearing a chapel veil and sometimes at black satin headscarf. I think that, as tradition goes, it reaches all the way back to the beginning - St. Paul. I haven’t felt any heat for it (though I am worried about attending the local parish where I was brought into Full Communion wearing a scarf, because that parish tends to be more liberal.)

I honestly don’t understand why people are so passionately against wearing a chapel veil. Having to take it out of my purse and put it on my head gives me a moment to think “I am entering the presence of the Lord” it is a wonderful moment. It also is something special that I don’t wear other places so it reminds me of how extraordinary special church is. It doesn’t feel like, oh either I am going to be modest inside or I am going to put this chapel veil on - it reminds me of what Jesus requires of us and that there is order and beautiful difference between men and women.

I am married, and I love my husband very much. He is the spiritual head of the household, but he does not “Lord it over me.” He treats me like an equal, lets me pursue any dream or goal that I want. I know that I am blessed to have him, and that it is not always that way with everyone, and I am happy to wear a chapel veil as a sign of his authority (the way that God ordered men and women equal in dignity but not the same) and because of the angels.

 

[catharina]

I honestly don’t understand why people are so passionately against wearing a chapel veil.

I think passion comes into it when some insist that all women must do so.

Since that directive has not come from the Vatican, how can anyone insist upon it?

 

[mammallama]

That being said. I look like a fool in a veil. I look like a fool in a bandana. I cannot find the right hat to wear. The best I can do is a scarf tied on like a head band. Different colors to go with what I am wearing. My kids (who said to me at one time “Mom why aren’t you wearing a veil?”) tell me I look like I’m from the 60’s. Well, I can live with that. So, perhaps one can grow into a veil via scarf or hat.

Is that adequate? Or does it have to be a lace veil? How far must I go to get the job done?

I wear those big old 60’s chiffon scarves and tie them under my chin.also helps to cover my ever expanding turkey-neck.Then wrap a second long scarf around my neck twice and let hang down in the back.very retro. There are websites devoted to modest clothing that sell head-wear and show various scarf wrapping techniques.Veils or mantillas look good usually if they are lonngg.The shorter versions look silly on adult women ‘cause they tend to hang just a tad bit longer than your ears.I also buy fabric remnants and sew lace around the edges.there’s no end to what you can do once you start thinkin’ about it.

 

[ibkc]

I think passion comes into it when some insist that all women must do so.

Since that directive has not come from the Vatican, how can anyone insist upon it?

No one can insist, as in force women to do it. But anyone can express an opinion about it, even so strongly that it sounds like insistence. However, they have no power to do anything about it.

Outside of EF communities, women are only doing it here and there as a personal devotion, so I really don’t think the anti-headcovering crowd has anything to worry about. Even at the FSSP parish I sometimes attend, which has a box of veils and scarves in the narthex for visitor use, I still see many uncovered female heads and do not see anyone getting asked to cover or leave.

 

[catharina]

No one can insist, as in force women to do it. But anyone can express an opinion about it, even so strongly that it sounds like insistence. However, they have no power to do anything about it.

Outside of EF communities, women are only doing it here and there as a personal devotion, so I really don’t think the anti-headcovering crowd has anything to worry about. Even at the FSSP parish I sometimes attend, which has a box of veils and scarves in the narthex for visitor use, I still see many uncovered female heads and do not see anyone getting asked to cover or leave.

I really don’t think there is an “anti-headcovering crowd,” however it’s clear that some wish all women to cover their heads as a way to appear more reverent. I dispute the notion that headcovering necessarily equates to reverence. Simple as that.

 

[ibkc]

I really don’t think there is an “anti-headcovering crowd,”

Oh, there is definitely an “anti-headcovering crowd”. Perhaps not on this board, but they are out there. I’ve gotten a few ugly looks at my home parish, which is OF; and some very rude comments from a couple of non-religious “feminist” family members. Funny, one of the things I do treasure about the fruits of the feminist movement is the ability of modern women to make choices about our lives, but apparently to some people, respect is only given if you make the same choices they do.

however it’s clear that some wish all women to cover their heads

Maybe so, but as I said, they can’t do anything to make us all cover our heads. So while it may gall you that they hold such opinions, take comfort in the notion that these people are a tiny minority and don’t have the power to do anything about this.

as a way to appear more reverent.

Hmmm, when you word it that way, it makes it seem so superficial. I can promise you I, for one, don’t wish to just “appear” more reverent. In fact, the first few times I did it, I was a bit self-conscious because I was worried what other people would think, and the sentiment you express above was one of my worries: that people would think I just wanted to appear holier-than-everyone-else. I got over that, though. People can think what they want; what is in my heart is between me and the Lord. Period.

I dispute the notion that headcovering necessarily equates to reverence. Simple as that.

I agree, but I would piggyback on your “necessarily” to add that headcovering can, for some people, be one of the ways that reverence manifests itself. I hope you and I can find some common ground here.

Let me ask, too: would you be against a purely grass-roots movement among women which encouraged head covering by choice?

 

[Ceil-1]

My husband just told me he really thinks the scarf tied on like a head band with the tails hanging in the back from beneath my hair looks really nice. I’m going with that.

I agree the longer veils look very elegant and pretty. I would like to work my way in that direction.

The Jackie Onassis look sounds pretty, but wouldn’t that get too warm in the summer?

 

[saint_rafael]

Robert Sungenis has written a very good article on this subject:

“Should Today’s Women Wear Head Coverings?
A Scriptural, Historical and Canonical Analysis”

catholicintl.com/articles/Head%20Coverings%20for%20Women.pdf

He makes a great argument in that the 1983 Code of Canon law is silent on headcoverings. This silence he shows, does not mean the law on headcoverings is abrogated, but that the 1917 canon law is still in effect.

Headcoverings is still the law of the Church, but hardly anyone has followed this law since the 70’s. The 1917 law has never changed but has just been ignored.

 

[SFD]

Has anyone checked The Textural Concordance of The Holy Scriptures for a clue as to why the Church requires a head covering for women?

SFD

 

[catharina]

Oh, there is definitely an “anti-headcovering crowd”. Perhaps not on this board, but they are out there. I’ve gotten a few ugly looks at my home parish, which is OF; and some very rude comments from a couple of non-religious “feminist” family members. Funny, one of the things I do treasure about the fruits of the feminist movement is the ability of modern women to make choices about our lives, but apparently to some people, respect is only given if you make the same choices they do.

Maybe so, but as I said, they can’t do anything to make us all cover our heads. So while it may gall you that they hold such opinions, take comfort in the notion that these people are a tiny minority and don’t have the power to do anything about this.

Hmmm, when you word it that way, it makes it seem so superficial. I can promise you I, for one, don’t wish to just “appear” more reverent. In fact, the first few times I did it, I was a bit self-conscious because I was worried what other people would think, and the sentiment you express above was one of my worries: that people would think I just wanted to appear holier-than-everyone-else. I got over that, though. People can think what they want; what is in my heart is between me and the Lord. Period.

I agree, but I would piggyback on your “necessarily” to add that headcovering can, for some people, be one of the ways that reverence manifests itself. I hope you and I can find some common ground here.

Let me ask, too: would you be against a purely grass-roots movement among women which encouraged head covering by choice?

A “grass roots movement” sounds very political to me.

What’s already in place is that women might or might not cover their heads. Of course, for some women headcovering might reflect a personal choice to express reverence. However, there is no limitation of freedom in the situation today.

Yes, no: it’s one own decision. I’m of an age where girls and women did not make simple visits to Church or chapel if they had no scarf, veil, mantilla or hat handy. Men and boys went right on in without any special garments.