Sick of blaming homosexuals for the scandals

[phil19034]

But there are many clergy who are quite open about their homosexuality.

No, most priests who experience same sex attraction are NOT open about their same-sex attraction, and disprove of priests who are open about it.

I once read an article about a same-sex attracted man who joined the Jesuits. He was happy to learn that many in his location were same-sex attracted, but when he started talking publicly about experiencing same-sex attraction, his fellow same-sex attracted Jesuits were not supportive of him.

He eventually left the Jesuits & the Catholic Church and became an Episcopalian priest.

 

[Augustinian]

What I mean is that your views as an Anglican might be in conflict with the Catholic Church.

The Anglican Faith believes in Homosexual Marriage, and in fact has ordained practicing homosexuals into their bishopric.

A lot different than the Catholic Church

 

[deMontfort]

SeriousQuestion:

What I mean is that your views as an Anglican might be in conflict with the Catholic Church.

The Anglican Faith believes in Homosexual Marriage, and in fact has ordained practicing homosexuals into their bishopric.

A lot different than the Catholic Church

I’d hazard to say most of Anglicanism has embraced the Modernist Heresy and is in a state of apostasy.

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr:

The notion that SSA should be concealed implies that it’s something that someone should be ashamed of.

Please forgive me in advance… my post is going to be very blunt. It is not my intention to upset anyone, but I’m trying to make a strong point.

@Thorolfr

Why? Should heterosexual men go around publicly and introducing themselves as a masturbator, fornicator, sodomite, or adulterer? Or that they are currently chaste but have a desire to masturbate, fornicate, sodomize, or they have a desire for a married women?

Homosexual acts are a form of sodomy and are sexual sins, just like masturbation, fornication, adultery, etc.

Why do people who have same sex attraction feel the urge to tell everyone, when people who feel the temptation to masturbate do not go around telling everyone.

Being a “homosexual” is no more a person’s identity than being a fornicator is a straight man’s identity. Our identity is not defined by our sexual sins and sexual desires.

Our identity comes from being a child of God.

God Bless

In my opinion, whatever it is that makes some people turn out homosexual and some people turn out heterosexual and some people turn out bisexual when they reach puberty (and I’m talking about sexual orientation here, not sexual activity) is something that they are born with. So, I don’t see any reason for someone to actively conceal their sexual orientation. Why should someone be ashamed of something they’re born with?

I’m not saying that people should go around announcing their sexual orientation to everyone they meet or wear a sign board on their chest that announces it. But in certain circumstances, I think it’s appropriate to tell people in my life. I sometimes I think it’s appropriate to speak out, especially in situations like this one in the Catholic Church where people with a homosexual orientation are being scapegoated by some people who want easy explanations and want to ignore the real issues involved.

Fornicating and adultery, etc. are all actions, not something like sexual orientation which is a more integral part of someone’s makeup.

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr:

The notion that SSA should be concealed implies that it’s something that someone should be ashamed of.

Priests are supposed to be celibate and there isn’t really a point in talking about their sexuality at least in public.

I replied to a particular post by Augustinian that happened to be about priests, but he had made it clear in an earlier post that he thinks that it is never appropriate for anyone to reveal their sexual orientation, except maybe to their psychiatrist or someone like that.

 

[Thorolfr]

But it is a fact that the number of gay men has risen exponentially since my own youth. Do you have a theory as to why that is?

I doubt that the number of gay men as a percentage of the population has risen exponentially. The only thing that has risen is the number of gay men who are out of the closet and are open about their sexual orientation.

 

[phil19034]

is something that they are born with. So, I don’t see any reason for someone to actively conceal their sexual orientation. Why should someone be ashamed of something they’re born with?

You see, that’s something I disagree with. I do not believe that anyone is born with those attractions. I do believe that it is POSSIBLE that there might be a gene that makes someone more susceptible to it, but in general, I believe it’s more environmental and biological.

But what you are saying about people with same-sex attraction can be said about criminals. One can make the same argument that criminals are born that way.

Having a temptation to a sin is not something to be proud of. Again, I’m not proud of the fact that I often experience attraction to women who are not my wife. However, while this attraction to women who are not my wife is natural (and as you claim I’m born with), I do not celebrate my attraction to other women - nor am I proud of the fact that I’m sometimes sexually attracted to women who aren’t my wife.

God Bless

 

[Thorolfr]

You see, that’s something I disagree with. I do not believe that anyone is born with those attractions. I do believe that it is POSSIBLE that there might be a gene that makes someone more susceptible to it, but in general, I believe it’s more environmental and biological.

So, if sexual orientation is more environmental, do you think that you would have turned out differently if you had been raised by two gay men? Do you think that everyone could be raised to be homosexuals if that’s what parents wanted?

 

[Thorolfr]

Good post. Nonetheless, men with deep seated homosexual tendencies should not be around young boys. That is what much of this current problem is all about.

So, do you think that men with deep seated heterosexual tendencies should not be around young girls? Should priests who are heterosexual not be allowed to be around young girls?

 

[SeriousQuestion]

That’s sounds like a non sequitur.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Re: secrecy, we all seem to be missing the point.

It is generally exhibitionistic for a person to broadcast his or her sexual proclivities, unless there is some concrete godly goal for doing so (which, in some cases, there is). So it’s generally not a good idea for men, much less priests, to broadcast their sexual orientation.

However, it is also deeply harmful for a person to have a secret that they keep from everyone in their lives except those with whom they sin. I can scarcely imagine anything more toxic and harmful than that!

There is a middle way: humility and transparency with a number of people you can trust.

But the priests at issue here have almost all followed one of those two toxic paths: exhibitionism or utter secrecy. What do we know about other gay priests, who were not “out and proud” and who were not utterly secretive? What do we know about their support groups, their attempts to achieve chastity? Nothing. Perhaps these priests outnumber the others, perhaps by a lot. Do we know? We do not. We are presumptuous if we assume.

 

[joeybaggz]

When I was a medic in the military, at a large stateside hospital, we were told that as a male corpsman, we were never to enter the room of a female patient alone. For our protection and theirs. I believe that is what it is going to come to with the situation of all male priests around high school age and younger children of both sexes.
It is a shame that priests don’t have a blinking sign on their forehead that says either “straight” or “homosexual.”

 

[phil19034]

So, if sexual orientation is more environmental, do you think that you would have turned out differently if you had been raised by two gay men? Do you think that everyone could be raised to be homosexuals if that’s what parents wanted?

Do I think I may have turned out different if I was raised by two gay men? I don’t know. As I said, there might be a gene that makes someone more susceptible.

However, some evidence for environmental factor:

1. identical twins where one twin is straight and the other is homosexual. There have been a number of these cases. If it was 100% biological, they they should be the same, as identical twins share the same exact DNA.
2. Michaela Nobilette from Season 13 of American Idol. She was a lesbian and was adopted as a baby by two lesbians. IF it is 100% biological, what are the chances of a lesbian couple adopting a lesbian baby? Not very good.

If since identifies a “gay gene” I will accept it. However, I do not believe it exists. Instead, I believe that homosexuality is mainly caused my a number of environmental factors, with a potential for some people to have a biological predisposition towards it.

https://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=244

Homosexuality ‘may be triggered by environment after birth'

God Bless

 

[Thorolfr]

That’s sounds like a non sequitur.

How is it a non sequitur? If it’s dangerous to leave young boys around someone with homosexual tendencies as joeybaggz seems to imply (“men with deep seated homosexual tendencies should not be around young boys”), then it should also be true that it’s dangerous to leave young girls around men with heterosexual tendencies. That is, unless there’s some reason to believe that homosexual men are more likely to be child molesters than heterosexual men.

 

[SeriousQuestion]

I replied to a particular post by Augustinian that happened to be about priests, but he had made it clear in an earlier post that he thinks that it is never appropriate for anyone to reveal their sexual orientation, except maybe to their psychiatrist or someone like that.

I replied to this.

 

[joeybaggz]

How is it a non sequitur? If it’s dangerous to leave young boys around someone with homosexual tendencies as joeybaggz seems to imply (“men with deep seated homosexual tendencies should not be around young boys”), then it should also be true that it’s dangerous to leave young girls around men with heterosexual tendencies. That is, unless there’s some reason to believe that homosexual men are more likely to be child molesters than heterosexual men.
[/quote]

As a matter of social interaction, no, in a proper social setting men should be comfortable and in control around both sexes.
BUT, given the history of this scandal, and that 80% of the abuse was homosexual, it has to be conceded that putting men with deep seated homosexual tendencies around young boys with no other adults present is not a wise idea.

Try this: If I’m playing baseball and I am the seventh hitter in the order, and the pitcher has “beaned” the first six batters in the head with a fastball, I’m not going up to the plate until the umpire throws that pitcher out of the game.

 

[phil19034]

“men with deep seated homosexual tendencies should not be around young boys”), then it should also be true that it’s dangerous to leave young girls around men with heterosexual tendencies.

The key word is “deep seated.”

And yes, it is dangerous to leave young girls around men with DEEP SEATED heterosexual tendencies because those men typically objectify women.

I would never want my daughter or son around a heterosexual pervert, just as I wouldn’t want them around a homosexual pervert.

God Bless

 

[Thorolfr]

1. identical twins where one twin is straight and the other is homosexual. There have been a number of these cases. If it was 100% biological, they they should be the same, as identical twins share the same exact DNA.

I would just like to point out that people with identical DNA do not always turn out identically even in terms of their physical appearance. Just to give one particularly striking example of twins born to a biracial couple:

Britain’s ‘first black and white twins’ born from same egg

These siblings are thought to be the first “black and white” twins born in the UK - despite coming from the same egg.

Libby Appleby, 37, was told her unborn babies would look so similar that they would need to be “marked with ink” to tell them apart.

But she was surprised when Amelia was born with dark skin, black hair and brown eyes - while her sister Jasmine has fair skin, blue eyes and mousey curls.

Despite their contrasting skin tones, the siblings are genetically identical and are thought to be the first of their kind in the country.

Ms Appleby said: "When they were born, we were flabbergasted, even the doctors couldn’t believe it.
“They look like they’re different races. Amelia is the spitting image of her dad, while Jasmine is a mini version of me.”

The 37-year-old, of West Rainton, County Durham, said strangers assume the twins - who have just celebrated their first birthday - are step-sisters.

She added: “We get a lot of funny looks when we tell people the girls are actually identical.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ne...black-and-white-twins-born-from-same-egg.html

 

[phil19034]

I would just like to point out that people with identical DNA do not always turn out identically even in terms of their physical appearance. Just to give one particularly striking example of twins born to a biracial couple:

Yes, but that mutation (from what I understand) is far less common than the occurrence of identical twins with one homosexual and one heterosexual.

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr:

“men with deep seated homosexual tendencies should not be around young boys”), then it should also be true that it’s dangerous to leave young girls around men with heterosexual tendencies.

The key word is “deep seated.”

And yes, it is dangerous to leave young girls around men with DEEP SEATED heterosexual tendencies because those men typically objectify women.

I would never want my daughter or son around a heterosexual pervert, just as I wouldn’t want them around a homosexual pervert.

God Bless

I don’t think that the term “deep seated” means what you seem to think it does in what the Church has written. I think that what they mean in the case of “homosexual tendencies” is men for whom those tendencies are not likely to be fleeting and go away. It is probably assumed that most people who are heterosexual have deep seated heterosexual tendencies meaning that those heterosexual tendencies are probably permanent and are not going to change to homosexual tendencies.