Sick of blaming homosexuals for the scandals

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Prodigal_Son said:
Yeah, and nearly all rape in the entire world is committed by men. This is my point. Why not refuse to admit all men to the priesthood, because they’re rapists?
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That’s not going to happen however.

But what is going to happen is that a lot of parents are going to keep a closer eye on folks that they see as potential predators. Perhaps some might attend RE classes with their offspring- more to keep an eye on instructors they see as “suspect”.
 
The problem at it’s core is not homosexuality, it’s the abuse of power in a culture that allows homosexuality to flourish.
Change the culture. It’s very simple but oh so difficult.
The culture we are speaking of is all male, it’s celibate (ie unmarried), and it’s entrenched.
Change the culture in seminaries and upper level diocesan.
We can’t rid the Church of homosexuality any more than we can rid it of pornographers, but we can change ourselves and the way we do things.
 
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Clovis1 said:
Because that’s a ridiculous statement when the priesthood is a vocation explicitly for men.
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My point is that it’s a logical conclusion of Augustinian’s argument, not that it’s a reasonable statement.
 
Though let me qualify: it seems that Augustinian is saying less than I originally thought. There’s nothing wrong with keeping a closer eye on people you think might be risks to your kids. Nothing at all wrong with that.
 
Isca said:
Gay men are normally attracted to other adult men. Heterosexual men are normally attracted to adult women. Paedophiles of both genders are attracted to children, sometimes boys, sometimes girls.

I’m a married woman so I have no personal axe to grind in this debate, but I feel that linking male homosexuality with possible paedophilia is very misguided at best.
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Most of the youth attacked by the minority of clerics are male - the use of the term pederasty is disingenuous - it is sodomistic paedophilia or sexual assault on a pupil, or both
 
Clovis1 said:
Homosexuals are known to have a higher rate of reckless sexual decision making, it’s common for older homosexuals to target younger men for grooming, and are intrinsically disordered. Removing men with these inclinations as a safeguard for the flock is a logical conclusion. Illogically banning the only people capable of holding an office is not a logical answer to a problem.
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If the ONLY reason for not having gay priests was the “more risk for abuse” angle, then that would be just like refusing to hire a black man because black men (per capita) commit more crimes.
 
@catholic1seeks

OK, I’m going to attempt defend the people who are blaming homosexual priests by bringing it into context.

The problem isn’t chaste priests with same sex attraction who agree 100% with church teaching. As Mother Angelica once said, these men may very well have a calling to the priesthood.

The problem is the homosexual bishops, priests and seminaries who are not chaste and/or who do NOT agree with church teaching. It’s the so called “Gay Mafia” in the Church.

If you buy the book "Goodbye Good Men" by Michael S. Rose you will understand the issue (note the cost of this book on Amazon has gone up a ton since the PA Grand Jury report)

So when they all talk about the gay priests, they are really talking about the Gay Mafia who are made up of unchaste gay priests; gay priests who might be currently chaste, but were not chaste during their years in the seminary; and others who have been morally comprised by the gay mafia (whether it be drugs, heterosexual abuse, etc).

So while surely some Catholics mean all priests with homosexual tendencies, most are referring to priests who identify with being gay, and reject Church teaching regarding homosexuals… and most importantly the gay mafia.

I pray this helps… and I highly recommend the book. It’s mostly about the seminary and it’s scary (NOTE: most seminaries have been cleaned up, but the damage has been done)

God Bless
 
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An analogy, if I may. I grew up Baptist, and we occasionally heard stories of pastors raping female parishioners. These men would have been married, so they were adulterers as well as rapists. And yet, no one would see this as primarily a problem of adultery, even though “pastor caught in sex scandal” is a stock character.
 
Clovis1 said:
And? If a business owner feels it’s not worth the risk that (should, but isn’t due to the law) be his/her right.
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Right. Darn that pesky “civil rights” stuff. :roll_eyes:

Not to mention the Catechism’s explicit and un-ambiguous condemnation of racism.
 
The predation is horrific; but, from what I’ve read, not higher in Catholic circles than in other circles. (I’d hope it would be lower, but I’ll leave that alone for now).

The predation is bad enough; horrific. All I can think about was what Christ said about millstones and corrupting the youth.

But the special Catholic twist on all this was the utter incompetence/weakness/self serving attitude of the higher ups in NOT coming clean and NOT protecting new victims when they HAD a known predator. And these were straight men.

The talk about this being a gay thing is bad; and IMHO just diverts the needed attention away from the Bishops who utterly and completely failed their flocks. I’ve known many gay people, non of whom have any indication of pedophilia/hebephilia.

We have to do better.
 
OP here.

I have chosen not to read the many posts here, because I am afraid that I will become even more discouraged, and am also afraid that the effort to understand my perspective may not receive much attention on CAF.

All I ask is to be kind and smart. Remember that there are faithful homosexual (same-sex attracted) priests and lay people.

If you don’t want the secularists to blame organized religion as a whole, or if you don’t want the progressive Christians to blame celibacy or patriarchy as a whole, or if you don’t want the Protestants blaming the Catholic Church itself as a whole, then please, fellow Catholics, do NOT fa into the same trap. Do NOT blame gay people, or even gay priests, as a whole.

To us who know better, it simply looks like a blame game.

Yes, we are all angry and frustrated. But homosexuality no more caused the sacandals as did celibacy, or “patriarchy,” or any other single issue. Let’s pray that God guide us first, and not merely human emotion.
 
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Homosexual as in between a male and a male, yes. But that’s not what many in the church are implying. They aren’t just describing the nature of the abuse, which, indeed, is not typical same-sex behavior to begin with (most of my gay friends want partners of their OWN age, after all…)

The point is, don’t blame heterosexuality just because most rape cases are opposite-sex, or that most family abuse is opposite-sex. The same for people with homosexual orientation/same-sex attraction.
 
Alas, I see that this thread is not good for me or my faith.

But thanks to all those who try to see how I see this, with your sympathy, AS a gay man in the church.

I won’t be checking in here much.
 
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Clovis1 said:
And? If a business owner feels it’s not worth the risk that (should, but isn’t due to the law) be his/her right.
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Sure, if that’s your opinion about law. And it’s our right to do all sorts of things that are very wrong.

Morality is not the same as legality.
 
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@catholic1seeks it might be more productive if you actually responded to the opinions being presented to you rather than disengaging. I mean, you did start the conversation after all.
 
catholic1seeks said:
I have chosen not to read the many posts here, because I am afraid that I will become even more discouraged, and am also afraid that the effort to understand my perspective may not receive much attention on CAF.
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What did you think of my post?
 
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I think it’s because we’re tired of being calumniated as LGBT Catholics. We have no attraction to kids. At all. Neither do our sexually active friends, who are scrupulous about consent and will shun even heroes in the face of wrongdoing. So focusing on “gay” as opposed to “predator” looks like scapegoating.
 
Augustinian said:
Personally, I wouldn’t want to see an openly homosexual man serving as a priest- the idea sort of gives me the creeps. But I’m just one person, and I could probably get over it
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Somehow it seems to me that keeping secrets is part of the problem that engulfed the Catholic Church. In most cases, I think it’s better if most people are more transparent and authentic about who they are. The notion that SSA should be concealed implies that it’s something that someone should be ashamed of.
 
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