Sign of Jonah

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MHalsey said:
This is how the quote is translated in my Bible (NJB):
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Hi
So my Catholic friends having no original text in Hebrew or Aramaic, translate from Greek or Latin, as they want. We do not translate Bible and the one quoted by me is also a Christian/Jewish translation. This speaks volumes:
“And there arose no more a prophet in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, in all the signs and wonders, which he sent by him, to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to his whole land, and all the mighty hand, and great miracles, which Moses did before all Israel” (Deuteronomy 34:10 sqq.)
So, it proves that Jesus could not be a greater Prophet than Moses. Peace
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
So my Catholic friends having no original text in Hebrew or Aramaic, translate from Greek or Latin, as they want. We do not translate Bible and the one quoted by me is also a Christian/Jewish translation. This speaks volumes:
“And there arose no more a prophet in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, in all the signs and wonders, which he sent by him, to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to his whole land, and all the mighty hand, and great miracles, which Moses did before all Israel” (Deuteronomy 34:10 sqq.)
So, it proves that Jesus could not be a greater Prophet than Moses. Peace
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Sorry, Paar. It proves nothing. Even the version you quote makes no claim on future prophets.
 
MHalsey said:
Sorry, Paar. It proves nothing. Even the version you quote makes no claim on future prophets.
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Hi
You are welcome to differ with me.“Even the version you quote makes no claim on future prophets”.“And there arose no more a prophet in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, in all the signs and wonders,”
You say it does not say about the future prophets.
Do you say that the verse of the OTBible quoted by me spoke of the prophets before Moses? Is that you want to say?
Thanks

The Word of GodAllahYHWH is and had been the first/authentic and primary source of human knowledge whether revealed on Moses/Buddha/Jesus/Muhammad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; it is of itself complete and without doubt and requires no external witnessing.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
You are welcome to differ with me.“Even the version you quote makes no claim on future prophets”.“And there arose no more a prophet in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, in all the signs and wonders,”
You say it does not say about the future prophets.
Do you say that the verse of the OTBible quoted by me spoke of the prophets before Moses? Is that you want to say?
Thanks

The Word of GodAllahYHWH is and had been the first/authentic and primary source of human knowledge whether revealed on Moses/Buddha/Jesus/Muhammad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; it is of itself complete and without doubt and requires no external witnessing.
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Of course the verse spoke only about prophets prior, not to Moses, but to the time the book was written, which certainly was well before Christ. The writer was quite capable of saying that no prophet would EVER arise like Moses if that was what God revealed to him.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
You are welcome to differ with me.“Even the version you quote makes no claim on future prophets”.“And there arose no more a prophet in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, in all the signs and wonders,”
You say it does not say about the future prophets.
Do you say that the verse of the OTBible quoted by me spoke of the prophets before Moses? Is that you want to say?
Thanks

The Word of GodAllahYHWH is and had been the first/authentic and primary source of human knowledge whether revealed on Moses/Buddha/Jesus/Muhammad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; it is of itself complete and without doubt and requires no external witnessing.
Click to expand...
Thanks for letting me disagree. Can you point me to where it DOES say there would never be another prophet like Moses?

You’re reading into this passage something that it does not say. Then, based on this misreading, you claim that Christ cannot be greater than Moses. This is interpretation, not proof, so please stop saying it is proof.

As for the passage, I agree with LilyM. This passage refers to the prophets from Moses’ time up to the time the book was written. As an example, it would be like me saying that Washington was a great American president and there there arose no more a president like unto him. I am clearly not saying there never will be another.
 
LilyM said:
Of course the verse spoke only about prophets prior, not to Moses, but to the time the book was written, which certainly was well before Christ. The writer was quite capable of saying that no prophet would EVER arise like Moses if that was what God revealed to him.
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Hi
Will you kindly let us know?
  1. Who wrote the book Deuteronomy, for sure?
  2. When did he write ,for sure?
  3. Was the verse (Deuteronomy 34:10) quoted by me revealed on him by mouth of GodAllahYHWH, for sure?
    Or it was just his opinion, like yours or anybody else’s, with no significance.
    I think this would clarify the things.
    Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
Will you kindly let us know?
  1. Who wrote the book Deuteronomy, for sure?
  2. When did he write ,for sure?
  3. Was the verse (Deuteronomy 34:10) quoted by me revealed on him by mouth of GodAllahYHWH, for sure?
    Or it was just his opinion, like yours or anybody else’s, with no significance.
    I think this would clarify the things.
    Thanks
Click to expand...
The Talmud was the first to discuss a problem concerning the assumed premise that Moses wrote the entire five books of the Torah. Based on this premise, it is difficult to understand how Moses could possibly have written the text recording his own death and burial, as well as describing, after his own death, that … there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses. While some Talmudic rabbis contend that he wrote these verses prophetically, the dominant opinion in the Talmud is that Joshua wrote the final verses of the Torah.
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuteronomy
MHalsey You’re reading into this passage something that it does not say. Then, based on this misreading, you claim that Christ cannot be greater than Moses. This is interpretation, not proof, so please stop saying it is proof.
Click to expand...
As for the passage, I agree with LilyM. This passage refers to the prophets from Moses’ time up to the time the book was written. As an example, it would be like me saying that Washington was a great American president and there there arose no more a president like unto him. I am clearly not saying there never will be another.
Click to expand...
 
Jesus surely did not teach that God’s word can be corrupt, as most cults claim; Jesus attested to x,y,z means that we believe in x,y,z. If Jesus attested to Moses, Jonah, Noah, abraham or whoever else, we believe in what He said without asking for proof that they were men of God.If Jesus mentioned any writing or quoted any writing, it means we believe in what he quoted regardless of who is its writer according to 19th or 20th century Mr. X or Mr. Y.

Jesus said that HE will send us prophets after HE leaves. These prophets will be sent by Jesus, teach what Jesus taught, and preach the same gospel, the gospel of salvation. Neither Muhammad, nor ghulam Ahmad fit since they were neither sent by Jesus, nor teach Jesus’ salvation, on the contrary, they oppose it. Muhammad was a 6th century Joseph Smith who was taught by heretic teachers including Bahira (mentioned in the Coptic and Syriac manuscripts as an ex-communicated heretic) just to mention an example. Ghulam Ahmad followed in his footsteps. Jesus warned us in advance and we only believe what He taught, not what heretics teach, no matter how influential they were, and no matter how many adherents they have since Jesus warned us that false prophets will deceive many. Jesus says He will return means it is Jesus, not someone unknown, and all will see Him, not only a few Pakistani. So Ghulam Ahmad neither fits the criteria Jesus gave about prophets after him, nor about Jesus’ return; same applies to Muhammad.
 
inJESUS said:
Jesus surely did not teach that God’s word can be corrupt, …; Jesus attested to x,y,z means that we believe in x,y,z. If Jesus attested to Moses, Jonah, Noah, abraham or whoever else, we believe in what He said without asking for proof that they were men of God.
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Hi
Thank you very much for participating in the discussion, and you are welcome to differe with us and announce your articles of faith. During the course of discussion I asked some simple questions from LilyM, she has not yet found time to answer, I think you could help to answer the same.

Please see the questions in my post #105: I repeat the same here for your convenience:
Will you kindly let us know?
  1. Who wrote the book Deuteronomy, for sure?
  2. When did he write ,for sure?
  3. Was the verse (Deuteronomy 34:10) quoted by me revealed on him by mouth of GodAllahYHWH, for sure?
    Or it was just his opinion, like yours or anybody else’s, with no significance.
    I think this would clarify the things.
Click to expand...
Thanks
 
Will you kindly let us know?
  1. Who wrote the book Deuteronomy, for sure?
  2. When did he write ,for sure?
  3. Was the verse (Deuteronomy 34:10) quoted by me revealed on him by mouth of GodAllahYHWH, for sure?
    Or it was just his opinion, like yours or anybody else’s, with no significance.
    I think this would clarify the things.
Click to expand...
dear friend,let me simplify things for you. Jesus attested to the torah/psalm/prophets’s writing and He fulfilled the Deuteronomical sacrificial system. Not to mention that He said that God’s word cannot be changed until fulfilled. All in all, Jesus never questioned God’s word and never questioned who wrote this and that…what Jesus fulfilled is the word of God, including the verse you quoted. Your questions are not knew, they’re ll over the islamic forums am sure, but it’s not something that we think much about because we believe that God’s word cannot be changed, and we believe that Jesus attested to the writings of the prophets, regardless of who wrote them down. So simply we don’t doubt that God is capable of preserving His words, even if science and tecknology cannot prove who wrote this or that . Hope this made things easier for u, otherwise this topic of “who wrote this and that” will never end.
 
adrift said:
This gets into how time was reckoned.
A day was any part of a day not what we consider a day now.
Friday was one day
Saturday was the second day
Sunday was the third. The answer to your question is yes.
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Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights: so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

Where is three days and three nights of that prophecy in Friday evening to sunday morning?
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
Will you kindly let us know?
  1. Who wrote the book Deuteronomy, for sure?
  2. When did he write ,for sure?
  3. Was the verse (Deuteronomy 34:10) quoted by me revealed on him by mouth of GodAllahYHWH, for sure?
    Or it was just his opinion, like yours or anybody else’s, with no significance.
    I think this would clarify the things.
    Thanks
Click to expand...
Hi Paar,
Since you were the one who first used this passage, and you thought it was good enough to use in an attempt to prove something you believe, it is up to you to answer the questions. We are only refuting what you claim the passage says based on the actual words of the passage.
 
Khalfan said:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights: so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

Where is three days and three nights of that prophecy in Friday evening to sunday morning?
Click to expand...
Answered in post nine
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
Kindly do me a favour.
Please repeat my question and then give answer, one by one.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Hi
Will you kindly let us know?
  1. Who wrote the book Deuteronomy, for sure?
  2. When did he write ,for sure?
Click to expand...
Quote:
The Talmud was the first to discuss a problem concerning the assumed premise that Moses wrote the entire five books of the Torah. Based on this premise, it is difficult to understand how Moses could possibly have written the text recording his own death and burial, as well as describing, after his own death, that … there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses. While some Talmudic rabbis contend that he wrote these verses prophetically, the dominant opinion in the Talmud is that Joshua wrote the final verses of the Torah.

Wikipedia
Click to expand...
  1. Was the verse (Deuteronomy 34:10) quoted by me revealed on him by mouth of GodAllahYHWH, for sure?
    Or it was just his opinion, like yours or anybody else’s, with no significance.
    I think this would clarify the things.
    Thanks
Click to expand...
MHalsey You’re reading into this passage something that it does not say. Then, based on this misreading, you claim that Christ cannot be greater than Moses. This is interpretation, not proof, so please stop saying it is proof.
Click to expand...
As for the passage, I agree with LilyM. This passage refers to the prophets from Moses’ time up to the time the book was written. As an example, it would be like me saying that Washington was a great American president and there there arose no more a president like unto him. I am clearly not saying there never will be another.
Click to expand...
 
adrift said:
Answered in post nine
Click to expand...
adrift said:
This gets into how time was reckoned.
A day was any part of a day not what we consider a day now.
Friday was one day
Saturday was the second day
Sunday was the third. The answer to your question is yes.
Click to expand...
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights: so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

Where is three days and three nights of that prophecy in Friday evening to sunday morning?
 
Khalfan said:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights: so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

Where is three days and three nights of that prophecy in Friday evening to sunday morning?
Click to expand...
In those times, nearly two thousand years ago, the Jews counted any part of a day as a whole day when computing any consecutive periods of time. As Jesus was laid in the tomb on the Friday afternoon, was there throughout the Saturday, and only rose sometime before dawn on the Sunday (the Sunday having officially started at sunset on the Saturday according to the Jewish calendar), there can be no doubt that he was in the tomb for a period of three days. “three days and three nights”, in Jewish terminology, did not necessarily imply a full period of three actual days and three actual nights but was simply a colloquialism used to cover any part of the first and third days. A good example of this is found in the Book of Esther where the queen said that no one was to eat or drink for three days, night or day (Esther 4.16), but on the third day, when only two nights had passed, she went into the king’s chamber and the fast was ended.
 
Hi
We can see that Deuteronomy 34:10 mentions very clearly:"**And there arose no more a prophet in Israel **like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, in all the signs and wonders,"

and that is for future of Israel, for past (prior to Moses) and also in the times of Moses it would be just meaningless. So it pertains to future for sure, and even now in our own times whosoever reads this passage as long as OTBible is there and one who reads it their, for sure.

For Jesus it is most pertinently applicable, as he was a Jew and a Jewish Pharisee as they say, he must have read it time and again, yet he could neither delete it if he considered himself superior to Moses, nor he could issue a straight refutation of this verse with reference to it. He was, as our Catholic friends would believe, the only claimant of being superior to Moses, yet he did not fulfill this duty.

So surely he was not superior to Moses.

There arose an occasion to announce on the subject, when he wanted to show a sign to the adulterous Jews. Had he been superior to Moses or his miracles superior to the ProphetMessenger Moses? He would have said that he would show superior signs that Moses had shown as he was superior to Moses, but he chose an ordinary ProphetMessenger Jonah with no signs comparable to Moses.

My Catholic friends should pause a little here, and think unbiased; they would realize that the status of Jesus was higher to Jonah, accepted without doubt, but lesser to Moses.

Moses was the Principal Prophet who was given Torah by GodAllahYHWH and Jesus was a subordinate Prophet, as was also Jonah, who were sent to revive the Torah.

I think it is reasonable, however, no compulsion.

Thanks

Since Jesus left no written Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on him, or authenticated by him when he last departed from Galilee; hence my Catholic friends believe many creeds created by the Catholic Clergy not originated by Jesus himself in person.
 
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