Sin to live with girlfriend?

[TLDenmark]

Dear PoenasDare

It is not a sin as such, but could be seen as a near occasion for sin. However you do state that it doesn’t arouse you or lead you into temptation, so perhaps that is not an issue in your case.

Anyway you still face a potential problem, due to that fact that most people will not be able understand how the two of you can stay pure under such conditions. So even if you are in no danger of loosing control, your living arrangements is a possible source of scandal. So if I were you, I would at least be a gentleman and sleep on the couch.

God bless you and your GF
TL

 

[fms]

You are asking so it seems your own conscience is telling you that something is not right.

Good to post here but more importantly speak to your confessor/spiritual director.

You may not be tempted (many here find it strange that being in close proximity, not only to a woman but your girlfriend does not arouse you) but she may be…

So scandal not only to external observers but to yourselves as well.

You are not loving each other as you should if you are an occasion of sin to one another or worse if you lead each other to sin.

 

[kage_ar]

A question for you. Imagine for a moment…

You and this young woman are married. Would you be okay with her sleeping over at a male friend’s house one night per week, or even one night per month, sleeping in the same bed?

 

[lenni]

we know so far that you dont have any lustful thoughts or get aroused when your in bed wif this girl?
BUT
how do you know she doesn’t have it?
girls, can get aroused to, you know?
in a marriage or any relationship really - one is meant to help the other get to heaven. In this situation, you are not doing so. Would, it be fair to place the one you love at the edge of a cliff? Then why are you doing this to your girlfriend? I mean, a RELATIONSHIP is not just about you - but also about protecting her. at this point - you are not protecting her soul - in fact, your probably closer to throwing her off the cliff because she also experiences the same temptations that any other normal human being gets when he lies down with the one who she/he has fallen for.

o and here is a reputable source - the apologist, Jason Evert’s take on YOUR exact question! I think you should check it out!
chastity.com/chastity/index.php?id=7&entryid=78

o and one more thing, i honestly dont get it. you ask for advice but yet you reject it. look man, its tough admitting faults and coming to terms with the truth. just dont be a fool and reject it! otherwise one day, it may come around and bite you on the bum.

anyways…thats my :twocents:

 

[PoenasDare]

I didn’t ask for advice, I asked for proof from Church Teachings. An opinion is not a fact. Anyway, I did get the answer I sought, thanks.

 

[RosaryFan]

Is it a sin to live with my girlfriend? We are NOT engaging in sexual activities. We sleep in the same bed but it is not sexual. I do not think of anything sexual when we sleep together either. I just see it as sleep.

Yes, it; is still a sin even if you’re arrangement is platonic. Your actions are still setting a bad example for your neighbor, by giving the appearance of scandal.

 

[RosaryFan]

I understand it is your opinion it is a sin but I have yet to see anything from the church teachings or bible that shows me it is a sin. Perhaps we will break up but I doubt it since we are getting engaged and are making plans to marry.

Also remember, she only stays in my house for one or two nights a week and mostly that is just one.

Unfortunately and very sadly, the church doesn’t seem to use the word “sin” anymore, so you’re probably not going to get any teachings on this issue which, I imagine, is why you’re at this post.

 

[whatevergirl]

Is it a sin to live with my girlfriend? We are NOT engaging in sexual activities. We sleep in the same bed but it is not sexual. I do not think of anything sexual when we sleep together either. I just see it as sleep.

It’s not a sin to live with your gf, if in fact you are not lusting after one another, or having sex of any type. But, the other thing to think about with this, is that it can create false attachments. A lot of the time, people feel obligated to marry, because they started living together. It’s not just about scandal, or potentially being tempted to have sex…(that would be a sin to start having sex outside of marriage) but it’s also about how two people change when they live together. The mystery of living together is stripped away, and pretty soon…when you are married, you have been there done that. I think that is why a lot of marriages fail, stats show–because a couple felt a sense of convenience, comfort, or obligation to the person they were living with, to get married.

I think it’s best to live separately, until you both are ready to marry. Just my two cents. From a sexual standpoint, if you stand by a flame long enough, you will slip and burn yourself. Be careful. You sound very commited to your morals and faith, but again…if you stand next to a cliff long enough, you might fall. Just because you haven’t succombed to temptation…the more you are around temptation, someday, you might just give in to it. I think that is what many on here are merely trying to say. It’s not a good idea to sleep in a bed with someone you are dating…over and over. When people sin, they are typically in situations that became comfortable for them to do so.

God bless, and good luck.

 

[emeraldcoast]

Yes, it; is still a sin even if you’re arrangement is platonic. Your actions are still setting a bad example for your neighbor, by giving the appearance of scandal.

RosaryFan,

Your post reminded me of Billy Graham and how he would not ride a lone in a car with a woman or close the door to his office by himself with a woman. It kept him above reproach and also protected the woman as well from scandel. This is a wonderful practice for all of us. I would hope that the OP would keep in mind that one should avoid doing anything that may hurt our reputation and we should also make sure that we will not hurt anothers reputation through our actions.

OP-- I can’t tell you what the Catholic Church teaches, but here are a couple Bible verses to think about.

Philippians 4:8 (NRSV) 8Finally, beloved, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is pleasing, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

Ephesians 5:10 (NRSV) Try to find out what is pleasing to the Lord.

“Do the right thing even when no one is looking”

God Bless!

 

[Ruthie]

PoenasDare,

You said, in relation to scandal, that “nobody knows” your girlfriend occasionally spends the night.

Are you sure that nobody has ever seen her arrive one evening, and leave the next morning? You live in an apartment. You have neighbors. If they see this, then both of your reputations have been damaged. This is the culture of death; they may be wrong in believing you two are having sex, but they still believe it.

A bad rep means you have lost the trust of people. Trust is not regained by a few words - it takes years of living right - and there will still be people who will never trust you again.

Knowing you are innocent is all well and good - but it won’t erase your neighbors’ deduction that:

Your girlfriend is a slut.
Catholics are phonies who don’t practice what they preach.
You are a liar.

All of the above are false - but the damage is done.

P.S. Sleep on the couch when she is there. What people have said about the bed being for marriage is true. It may not be a “near occasion of sin” for you - but you have no right to put *her *in that position. Even if she says it’s not - one or both of you is being selfish. Love is about sacrifices, not self-indulgence. As Fr Corapi said, “Love is **not **a wimp emotion.”

God bless you both,

Ruthie

 

[mercygate]

Is it a sin to live with my girlfriend? We are NOT engaging in sexual activities. We sleep in the same bed but it is not sexual. I do not think of anything sexual when we sleep together either. I just see it as sleep.

If you are a young person between the ages of 15 and 70, and you can sleep in the same bed and not “think of anything sexual” when you are in bed together, then you BOTH need to see a doctor.

 

[Jwlynas]

Ok, evidentally people have a few assumptions here that need to be straightened out

You can’t sleep in the same bed as someone of the opposite gender without sexual thoughts? Thats more your own issue than anyone elses. I used to share a bed with two sisters, the worst we ever did was make a fort. And the worst I ever thought was “I wish this fort was bigger” (the last time I was 16, so hardly the mind of an innocent)

As a student (So I fall well within the danger age of 15 - 70. I’m 21) I’ve been out drinking, went back to a friends house where the central heating was broke and ended up curled up in a duvet in front of the only heater (an electric heater fan). Never once did either of us engage in indecent actions, nor sinful ones. She had a boyfriend, I have a (very catholic) girlfriend. Do i feel bad? of course not.

Whether or not what other people think or not is an issue is really up to you. last time I checked Scandal wasn’t sin, and the views of nosy neighbours is hardly something you should concern yourselves with anyway. (EDIT: I have since been informed Scandal is a sin…This is Quite surprising, and I’d like to know if its by gods implicit word, or the interpretations of someone like Aquinas)

As to Catholic teachings, I’m afraid I’ll be of little help, but as there are none that state sleeping (literally) with another is a sin, you should make up your own mind.

(EDIT: once more corrected. Apparentally its somewhere in the catechism/Bible that what other people think contributes to sin…We’re plainly all going to hell. Sad, but hardly avoidable if were held accountable for what we do, what we cause others to do, what we cause other to think we’re doing, what we causes others to think of doing and what we do that directly doesn’t make others think we’re doing what we should be doing at any given moment… Good grief…Rant ovr. I’m a little ranty today, So I apolgise in advance to any and all people who read this)

 

[mercygate]

Ok, evidentally people have a few assumptions here that need to be straightened out

You can’t sleep in the same bed as someone of the opposite gender without sexual thoughts? Thats more your own issue than anyone elses. I used to share a bed with two sisters, the worst we ever did was make a fort. And the worst I ever thought was “I wish this fort was bigger” (the last time I was 16, so hardly the mind of an innocent)

As a student (So I fall well within the danger age of 15 - 70. I’m 21) I’ve been out drinking, went back to a friends house where the central heating was broke and ended up curled up in a duvet in front of the only heater (an electric heater fan). Never once did either of us engage in indecent actions, nor sinful ones. She had a boyfriend, I have a (very catholic) girlfriend. Do i feel bad? of course not.

Whether or not what other people think or not is an issue is really up to you. last time I checked Scandal wasn’t sin, and the views of nosy neighbours is hardly something you should concern yourselves with anyway. (EDIT: I have since been informed Scandal is a sin…This is Quite surprising, and I’d like to know if its by gods implicit word, or the interpretations of someone like Aquinas)

As to Catholic teachings, I’m afraid I’ll be of little help, but as there are none that state sleeping (literally) with another is a sin, you should make up your own mind.

(EDIT: once more corrected. Apparentally its somewhere in the catechism/Bible that what other people think contributes to sin…We’re plainly all going to hell. Sad, but hardly avoidable if were held accountable for what we do, what we cause others to do, what we cause other to think we’re doing, what we causes others to think of doing and what we do that directly doesn’t make others think we’re doing what we should be doing at any given moment… Good grief…Rant ovr. I’m a little ranty today, So I apolgise in advance to any and all people who read this)

“Scandal,” meaning ‘stumbling block’ can apply to the confusion that arises in the minds of witnesses when people appear to be living and acting contrary to Gospel standards. It can lead people to believe that the apparent behavior is acceptable. Thus, we have Jesus’ admonition about leading others into sin and millstones.

 

[Jwlynas]

Ah, many thanks for the clarification on that. Alas it seems that scandal in itself is quite hard to avoid. Surely people could think such things were going on regardless of the company you choose to take behind closed doors?

Males, females, large groups, its all potential sin, especially during the day, when most peoples spouses or partners would be away at work.

Still, i suppose night time rendevous do suggest more to the casual observer. of course for the csual observer to think such things they would need to be aware of the acts, and I’ve never met a Catholic, or indeed christian, who didn’t know of the premarital rule. Nevertheless, I suppose those os us who do not hold to any religion…would already know full well of sex, or else be unaware of it entirely…No I’m still not convinced.

But as far as the Catholic rule goes, I suppose erring on the side of caution would be the wisest course of action…

 

[lsu]

you people are something.this man is asking a question,he telling you he’s not having sex.and you don’t believe him.he would had been better off telling you he was having sex,then you would have given him an answer.

My friend follow your heart,if you think it’s wrong living the way you are then then it’s wrong.if you think you are not doing anything wrong then,your not doing anything wrong.

You cannot listen to these people on this board,they are all sinners.

 

[Jwlynas]

I believe him full well. The issue is the apparent sin in “Scandal”

Now I disagree that it should be a major point but, not being catholic, I’m not sure how serious the sin of Scandal truly is.

As to the sinner part…well I won’t argue against that. Its true to an extent. I have sinned, repeatedly, with many different people, sometimes all at once. Still, I have repented my ways since then and live quite the upstanding life now, so its not for you to judge really, is it?

 

[lsu]

I not the one juding anybody.it seems anytime that someone talks about sex outside of marriage the catholic way.its the end of the freaking world.just go to the family life board,talk some screwed up people.and sad thing they all catholic.

 

[Jwlynas]

You cannot listen to these people on this board,they are all sinners.

Does seem a judgemental that quote, no?
However, I do see your point. It does seem a little biased at times towards secularism even within this Catholic forum and I can see how that’d be a tad vexing.

Sex is enjoyable, sometimes people find it difficult to disassociate male/female relations and sexual feelings. Never mind that men have mothers, sisters, aunts for whom they never feel the slightest arousal despite the female form they take.

Evidentally blood is magic and a same-genepool-repellant… {/sarcasm}

(the previous statement is just an example of male/female relations without sexual tension to prove its possible. Please don’t read any further into it]

Fair play Isu, I retract my previous bitterness

 

[mercygate]

I not the one juding anybody.it seems anytime that someone talks about sex outside of marriage the catholic way.its the end of the freaking world.just go to the family life board,talk some screwed up people.and sad thing they all catholic.

Actually, it would appear to any observer that you are having a wonderful time judging people.

Isn’t it ironic how pointing the finger of “judgmentalism” reveals that very characteristic in the one who is pointing the finger.

 

[RosaryFan]

you people are something.this man is asking a question,he telling you he’s not having sex.and you don’t believe him.he would had been better off telling you he was having sex,then you would have given him an answer.

My friend follow your heart,if you think it’s wrong living the way you are then then it’s wrong.if you think you are not doing anything wrong then,your not doing anything wrong.

You cannot listen to these people on this board,they are all sinners.

I never said I didn’t believe him. I TOTALLY believe him. I still think it’s wrong to “appear” as though he’s living in sin. I think his NEIGHBORS (of which I am not) will not believe him.