Sin

[PaulDupre]

James 2:10. However, the following verse makes it clear that it’s talking about different kinds of sin–you can’t pick which parts of the law to follow and claim credit for getting 8 out of 10 or something like that. I do not think that this passage is talking about the idea of “degrees of sin,” though many Protestants misinterpret it to support their view that all sin is equal.

Edwin

That is a misinterpretation indeed. Taken in context, James is contrasting the law of love (love your neighbor as yourself) with the old law of works. He says that if you use the law of works as your standard and guide, then you will trip and fall, because no one can keep the whole law. Therefore if you break one rule, you are a rule-breaker, pure and simple. But if you follow the law of love, there is no rule-breaking involved, only goodness.

James’ point is about rules, not sins. The old law was 630 commandments about what bowls and cups you had to wash and what you had to cook together and separately and in what order etc, etc. There were so many rules that no human could keep them. You could even break a rule accidentally without ever intending to do so. There is none of that in the law of love.

James’ point is that love is better than rules, because “love never faileth” (to quote St. Paul). He certainly is not saying that all sin is the same, as that would contradict other parts of the scriptures, such as 1 John 5:16-17:

If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

God bless,
Paul

 

[Doxiemom]

You’re right, that is not Catholic teaching at all. Who told you that eating meat on Friday is a mortal sin? Or is that just something you imagined in childhood? It is not a sin at all, in fact. The Church teaches us to perform some act of penance or charity on Fridays to unite ourselves with the sufferings of Our Lord, but the exact act is not specified. Abstaining from meat is one recommended choice (in the West at least - it would make no sense in parts of Asia), but is not the only one available. Prayer and almsgiving are also wonderful Friday acts of faith, as substitutes for fasting or abstinence.

I recommend you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It will straighten out your misconceptions about Catholic beliefs.

Dear paul: I do not know how old you are but being born in 1948 and growing up catholic here in good old very italian catholic connecticut we were most certainly taught that we must not eat meat on Friday or it was a terrible mortal sin. Please note that this was eventually changed but that is what the nuns taught us. They scared the heck out of us kids.

Later, as an adult, when the church law was changed in the USA, it was reported that it was not a church rule universally.

Not my imagination, which, i pray not, was a bit of a smirky jab.

 

[Doxiemom]

The catholic church recognizes marriage and baptism performed by other ministers of other christian churches.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

That’s because the Sabbath is Sunday, not Saturday. Many Protestants still say Saturday. Are you Protestant?

The sabbath day is saturday.

The catechism of the catholic church says:

2189 “Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy” (Deut 5:12). “The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord” (Ex 31:15).

2190 The sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation,*** has been replaced by Sunday ***which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.

The sabbath, has been replaced by Sunday.

The seventh day, Saturday, is the sabbath, and relates to the Old Law.

Sunday, is the first day of the week, and is the Lord’s Day.

The sabbath is NOT Sunday.

Read your catechism.

 

[diggerdomer]

That’s because the Sabbath is Sunday, not Saturday. Many Protestants still say Saturday. Are you Protestant?

No. The Sabbath is the 7th day, which is Saturday. That’s what Jews continue to observe.

 

[diggerdomer]

No, it is Sunday. Like i said, you are not Catholic and this is what you believe. pity.

If you don’t believe any of us do you believe the Catechism?

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:

 

[Guyonthestreet]

If you don’t believe any of us do you believe the Catechism?

This relevant section of the catechism has already been quoted to her by Brian and others, but she still came back and said:

onetruecathapos:

No, it is Sunday. Like i said, you are not Catholic and this is what you believe. pity.

So the catechism of her own catholic church, and the correction of several catholics here including yourself and many non catholics who know the catechism of the catholic church better than she does, doesnt make the slightest bit of difference.

Many catholics here are very knowledgable about their faith.

They post with great love and charity.

Some however never cease of using a persons faith (sometimes even when it is catholicism) as a slur against them.

They dont seem to know or care about the damage they are doing to the church they claim to love so much.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

How do you define what a sin is?

Is that definition given to you by your church, or your conscience?

Both. Churches provide the verbal definitions - but to be profitable in practice, the verbal definitions have to be internalised, so as to “become second nature”.​

I try to use what understanding I have of moral theology - this is very helpful, because it provides principles for judging such matters: the value of starting from principles in making judgements can hardly be exaggerated; it gives one the means of thinking about, not one particular problem only, but any. IOW, moral theology is a science; this scientific character is a protection against the serious danger of adopting whims as the rule for moral judgements. Another great help is analogy: moral cases, when essentially similar, can be judged by analogy; so that if deliberate homicide is a sin, so, all others things being equal, will deliberate removal of the property of another person without his leave be a sin.

Someone with a really good grounding in all this stuff will know more.

What do you do when your conscience is telling you something is not a sin when your church tells you it is?

I was thinking about that today - I still have no answer.​

Do you believe all sin is equal before God?

Equality of sins ? I don’t know - maybe they can be equal yet unequal (I think some of the disagreement about this is as to words, but not as to the things that are intended)

This article on “Complaint Judo” may help to answer one or two of those:

• [Catholic.net - Catholics on the net (Catholic.net - Catholics on the net)

 

[Doxiemom]

Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath.

The point of the Sabbath was worship, according to certain days established by God. It was obedience.

Attending your church’s service, whether on a Saturday or a Sunday, fulfills the “intent” of the law, that is worship and obedience.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath.

The point of the Sabbath was worship, according to certain days established by God. It was obedience.

Attending your church’s service, whether on a Saturday or a Sunday, fulfills the “intent” of the law, that is worship and obedience.

The intent of the sabbath was not up for correction.

What was, was the erroneous statement that the ‘‘sabbath’’ is a ‘‘Sunday’’.

It isnt. The catholic church says so.

Sunday replaced the Sabbath.

The sabbath remains a Saturday.

Sunday is the Lords Day.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

With free will comes conscience? And I do not need to have the Church to tell me what is a sin and what is not,My conscience tells me if it is a sin or not

So are you saying it is not possible for your conscience to contradict what the church says?

What about the finer nuances of sin?

Your conscience may tell you that to have an affair is somehow wrong, and therefor sinful, but what about looking lustfully at a pretty woman?

Would your conscience be suitably refined to know that too was a sin, if the Bible and church didnt tell you so?

Does the church not have a role in defining what is and is not a sin, and it’s degree, if you say you dont need the church to tell you what is sinful, you can rely exclusively on your own conscience?

 

[PaulDupre]

Dear paul: I do not know how old you are but being born in 1948 and growing up catholic here in good old very italian catholic connecticut we were most certainly taught that we must not eat meat on Friday or it was a terrible mortal sin. Please note that this was eventually changed but that is what the nuns taught us. They scared the heck out of us kids.

Later, as an adult, when the church law was changed in the USA, it was reported that it was not a church rule universally.

Not my imagination, which, i pray not, was a bit of a smirky jab.

I’m 55 years old, born in 1954, so we’re in the same generation. I went to Catholic school with the Sisters of the Holy Union. They could be pretty intense, but we were never taught that eating meat on Friday was a mortal sin. We were very clear on what was mortal and what was not. It has always been Catholic teaching (and it’s in the old Baltimore Catechism) that to be mortal, a sin must involve GRAVE MATTER. Eating meat on Friday is not in the least bit grave, and we all knew that.

I guess I was lucky that I also had a father (now deceased) that knew his faith well and taught it to us in the home. He taught Catholic bible study for 20 years, and was a very good man.

I did not intend anything smirky, btw. Little kids are very prone to imagine all kinds of fearful things, and a pious child may sometimes get carried away with guilt and fear. That’s where a wise parent comes in handy.

God bless,
Paul

 

[Bill_Pick]

Is Baptism one of these 5 you refer to?

If so, are you saying baptism outside the catholic church is not valid?

I thought the catholic church said baptism following the correct formula (trinitarian) was valid in any christian church - but makes excpetion for mormons and maybe some others (can’t remember exactly right now) due to some heretical ideas on the natureof God?

May I ask what 5 you are talking about

 

[Bill_Pick]

how do you form your conscience without some teaching and assistance from Christ himself, who established the Church to teach understanding of his commandments?

Well yes I do let my conscience led me with the help of my mother and father, and yes I do listen to my Church

 

[Guyonthestreet]

May I ask what 5 you are talking about

I was responding to PJM’s post.

He said 5 of the 7 sacraments relate to salvation and were only validated by the catholic church.

I asked if baptism was one of the 5.

You need to ask PJM what 5 he/she was refering to.#

I was interested in baptism as the catholic church says christian baptism in other churchs is valid and they dont rebaptise if you have been baptised properly elsewhere.

That seems to contradict the claim that the sacrament of baptism is only valid if done in the catholic church.

Thats why I aked PJM if baptism was one of the 5 he was referring to.

If you read my post properly you would have seen that,

Do you still think I’ll make a good protestant

 

[PJM]

=BrianH;5730343]Um…thats not what your catechism just said

Did you happen to notice when Jesus celebrated the Passover meal? The evening before Passover.

 

[Carlan]

The intent of the sabbath was not up for correction.

What was, was the erroneous statement that the ‘‘sabbath’’ is a ‘‘Sunday’’.

It isnt. The catholic church says so.

Sunday replaced the Sabbath.

The sabbath remains a Saturday.

Sunday is the Lords Day.

Guy, you are making a mountain out of this. Read Doxie again. Look at what is important.:shrug:Carlan

 

[PJM]

=Guyonthestree-I was responding to PJM’s post.

He said 5 of the 7 sacraments relate to salvation and were only validated by the catholic church.

I asked if baptism was one of the 5.

You need to ask PJM what 5 he/she was refering to.#

I was interested in baptism as the catholic church says christian baptism in other churchs is valid and they dont rebaptise if you have been baptised properly elsewhere.

That seems to contradict the claim that the sacrament of baptism is only valid if done in the catholic church.

Thats why I aked PJM if baptism was one of the 5 he was referring to.

Do you still think I’ll make a good protestant

Hi, I must have missed your reply, sorry!

First the Catholic Church accepts all Christian Baptisms done with water, in the name of the Trinity.

Indeed Baptism is the “Initial” and absolutely necessary first step in ones personal salvation. It has the power of God to both remove all PAST sins, and the effects of them, so if one were to die before commiting any additional sins, such a person would be granted itmediate access to heaven. Past, not furture sins only!

The other four Sacraments [all instituted by Jesus] that can effect ones personal salvation are:

Confirmation, an (name removed by moderator)oring of of the Grace of God, to help us know, live, and defend our faith.

Reconcillation. [see 1 Jn.1: 8-10 sin] [1 Jn. 5: 16-18 The nature of sin] and [John 20: 21-223] on how sin is actaully to be forgive in the words of Christ Himself. this verse should be read in conjunction with [Mt. 16:19, and Mt. 18: 15-18].

Eucharist Which is litteraly “heaven on earth” the gift of God, by God, for God, in which through the Will and Mysterious ways of God, Jesus Himself is made present [By God] through the priest He calls to service, to be the food of emense grace, so needed to avoid sin, and to accept His call for our salvation.

Last Rites Which have the same total cleansing action, as does Baptism. And like Baptism, if one were to die after proper and “worthy” [desire / not merit] receiving this sacrament, and before commiting any other sins, this person too would itmediately access heaven.

The fact that these sacraments can and are only validly administered and received in the confines of the ONLY Church Christ Founded, is the precise Will of God.

Hope this clarifies your concerns and questions. If not, God willing, I’ll still be here.

As to your status as a Protestant. Only God knows, but what we can know is that Jesus founded only ONE Church, because that is precisely what he God Desires

Love and prayers,

 

[Guyonthestreet]

Guy, you are making a mountain out of this. Read Doxie again. Look at what is important.:shrug:Carlan

On the contrary.

I’m responding to an error.

I know when the sabbath is.

And I know what the catechism says about it.

Some catholics clearly don’t, and contradict their own catechism and claim to know better and tell others they are wrong, when they dont even know what their own church teaches.

They don’t represent the teaching of the catholic church.

If a non catholic didnt know better, they could be easily misled by these self professed catholics into error.

This thread is about sin.

There was a reference to keeping holy the sabath day - which was pointed out as a saturday. As in a breach of the 10 commandments.

OTCA said the sabbath was a Sunday, and disparaged protestants for believing it was a saturday.

Several of us pointed out she is wrong (again ).

Readers should be clear about what the catechism of the catholic church says on the matter, and is crystal clear that the sabbath is NOT the same as the Lords Day, as claimed by OTCA.

When dealing with sin, it’s important to have the churchs teaching straight, dont you think!

 

[Guyonthestreet]

First the Catholic Church accepts all Christian Baptisms done with water, in the name of the Trinity.

The fact that these sacraments can and are only validly administered and received in the confines of the ONLY Church Christ Founded, is the precise Will of God.

Im confused.

First you say the church accepts all christian baptisms done with water to the trinitarian formula, then you say the sacrament can only be validly administered and received in the catholic church