Single and no place to meet others

[prodigalson12]

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I’m not meaning to butt into this thread, as I’m married, but I just wanted to say that I appreciate your sentiment here, rpp. I strongly believe men should take the initiative. I’m flexible on many issues, but very traditional when it comes to courting, and who should make that first move. My husband took initiative (he had an inkling that I was interested however in his pursuit), and I just think that is the right “way.”

Ok, sorry everyone–carry on. ***

You gotta define “first move” here. Did you show through body language or through conversation any interest in him? Were there any signs at all, or was it all him taking all of the risks? Even eye contact alone constitutes a first move.

 

[rpp]

Because I’ve been painfully shy in this department all of my life. Sure, I can talk your head off now, but when I’m approaching/am being approached by a gal I find attractive, I become tongue tied for some reason. I’m not alone here, many guys are the same way, in fact, many gals are the same way. If it’s any consolation, just yesterday I asked a cool waitress to go out some time, I was not nervous at all. She told me she has a significant other, but you know, I was proud of myself for taking the initiative like that, it’s no big deal at all and no, I was not hurt in the process, for you can’t take it personally.

I would not describe becoming tongue-tied when approaching a woman you find attractive and interesting as symptom of shyness. I would describe that as completely normal. To let this stop you is not a matter of being shy, but of a very unmanly quality. It is an expression of authentic masculinity to overcome anxiety and not succumb to fear, or worse, cowardice.

 

[rpp]

You gotta define “first move” here. Did you show through body language or through conversation any interest in him? Were there any signs at all, or was it all him taking all of the risks? Even eye contact alone constitutes a first move.

Introduction and asking out. Asking for a phone number, then actually calling. Asking to join her at coffee and donuts after Mass. Essentially, the “first move” is both initiating conversation and asking for the first date. In short, LEAD, do not follow.

 

[agapewolf]

Introduction and asking out. Asking for a phone number, then actually calling. Asking to join her at coffee and donuts after Mass. Essentially, the “first move” is both initiating conversation and asking for the first date. In short, LEAD, do not follow.

Not only the first move, but continuous.

The man is the pursuer. This is written into the masculine nature.

 

[rpp]

Not only the first move, but continuous.

The man is the pursuer. This is written into the masculine nature.

Correct. It is women who nurture and support. Men lead and protect. These are the normal roles built into our genes.

Which is, not conincidentaly, why men and women often have difficulties communicating.

 

[prodigalson12]

It’s not supposed to be some game with a set of rules to follow, that’s what they do in grade school. As adults, it really should be a two way street, an equal relationship, and sure there are rolls we naturally play, but honestly, it has nothing to do with being manly or feminine, when you get into defining them, then you get into a lot of trouble. Case in point, the roll models I had as a kid were the John Wayne types, you never showed the vulnerable side of yourself, you stuffed your emotions inside, and you were supposed to be hard and calloused. The same with the ladies, where they are told they must be this frail little thing that falls apart at the first sign of troubles, having some strength instead is a huge asset.

 

[agapewolf]

It’s not supposed to be some game with a set of rules to follow, that’s what they do in grade school. As adults, it really should be a two way street, an equal relationship, and sure there are rolls we naturally play, but honestly, it has nothing to do with being manly or feminine, when you get into defining them, then you get into a lot of trouble. Case in point, the roll models I had as a kid were the John Wayne types, you never showed the vulnerable side of yourself, you stuffed your emotions inside, and you were supposed to be hard and calloused. The same with the ladies, where they are told they must be this frail little thing that falls apart at the first sign of troubles, having some strength instead is a huge asset.

Please read theology of the body. You will find that that masculinity and femininity do indeed carry imprints… and yes, it does have to do with it. It’s not a game with rules. Its what is written on our hearts.

The father is the initiator of the gift, the mother is the receiver. The physical reality makes visible the invisible reality. This is church teaching.

 

[rpp]

It’s not supposed to be some game with a set of rules to follow, that’s what they do in grade school. As adults, it really should be a two way street, an equal relationship, and sure there are rolls we naturally play, but honestly, it has nothing to do with being manly or feminine, when you get into defining them, then you get into a lot of trouble. Case in point, the roll models I had as a kid were the John Wayne types, you never showed the vulnerable side of yourself, you stuffed your emotions inside, and you were supposed to be hard and calloused. The same with the ladies, where they are told they must be this frail little thing that falls apart at the first sign of troubles, having some strength instead is a huge asset.

In addition to the wise words of Agapewolf, I would add that you are seem to buying into modern secular society’s idea of men and women. These views are intended to emasculate men, make them weak crybabies useful for nothing other than being a sperm donor.

These attitudes that you express here may be exactly why you find it hard to connect with an authentically Catholic woman. No real woman is attracted to a man who wants to cry. Women need strength and solidity. the “John Wayne” types, as you put it, are good role models for authentic men. Foibles and all. It is in the woman’s nurturing nature to help the man with the fault you described. Yet an authentic woman, unlike modern secular women, will not try to turn her man into a woman. You need to reject this thinking.

 

[prodigalson12]

Please read theology of the body. You will find that that masculinity and femininity do indeed carry imprints… and yes, it does have to do with it. It’s not a game with rules. Its what is written on our hearts.

The father is the initiator of the gift, the mother is the receiver. The physical reality makes visible the invisible reality. This is church teaching.

To be blunt, the church clearly has shown no interest in taking any roll in the dating scene, I’d rather deal with the reality of it all, and these are modern times which should at least in this case, show a more evolved system. In biblical times, things were much more different, we had traditional courting, arranged marriages, polygamy, etc., an entire system in place within the family unit to have it self sustaining unto itself with a much more detailed manner, much of which is absolutely not accepted these days. For example, it was traditional for the wife to be the land owner and the husband to work that land, now a days, each side participates in both areas, and instead of owning the land, both help pay the bills and mortgage typically through their jobs. I don’t mind washing dishes, I love to cook as well, does that make me less masculine since that’s a roll typically pushed onto the wife?

 

[agapewolf]

In addition to the wise words of Agapewolf, I would add that you are seem to buying into modern secular society’s idea of men and women. These views are intended to emasculate men, make them weak crybabies useful for nothing other than being a sperm donor.

These attitudes that you express here may be exactly why you find it hard to connect with an authentically Catholic woman. No real woman is attracted to a man who wants to cry. Women need strength and solidity. the “John Wayne” types, as you put it, are good role models for authentic men. Foibles and all. It is in the woman’s nurturing nature to help the man with the fault you described. Yet an authentic woman, unlike modern secular women, will not try to turn her man into a woman. You need to reject this thinking.

rpp, I agree with you, mostly.

I would also suggest though, that John Wayne types are not necessarily authentic masculinity. As a woman, I think a real man is someone who is strong, the leader, etc, but who is HUMBLE. Sometimes, humility, among other virtues has expressive emotions, which can include a tear.

Not complete “sissies” or whatever, but someone who is always wearing masks and trying to be too strong that one is void of any emotion or unaffected by anything is not pleasant either.

 

[prodigalson12]

As a business owner, I prefer strong women because I have to be much stronger then the average male, for there are many that have to rely upon me and my strength. It doesn’t mean I’m out of touch with my mates feelings, and I very much am there for support, yet I refuse to be a doormat, and this perplexes many women, for that’s what they demand, as you described, as a sissy. Another elment of strength, I’ll stand up for those that need it in spite of overwhelming opposition, I will take compassion as in the manner of the good sumaritan, yet I’m one of the most formidable individuals you will ever meet should I have to draw upon my skills to physically defend myself or others.

Looking into a biblical reference, any number of the prophets, apostles, even Christ himself make excellent roll models. They were strong, very strong yet can be very gentle at the same time.

 

[agapewolf]

To be blunt, the church clearly has shown no interest in taking any roll in the dating scene, I’d rather deal with the reality of it all, and these are modern times which should at least in this case, show a more evolved system. In biblical times, things were much more different, we had traditional courting, arranged marriages, polygamy, etc., an entire system in place within the family unit to have it self sustaining unto itself with a much more detailed manner, much of which is absolutely not accepted these days. For example, it was traditional for the wife to be the land owner and the husband to work that land, now a days, each side participates in both areas, and instead of owning the land, both help pay the bills and mortgage typically through their jobs. I don’t mind washing dishes, I love to cook as well, does that make me less masculine since that’s a roll typically pushed onto the wife?

You’re missing the point, and also, not very tuned into to modern CATHOLIC culture. Courting still happens, or some modified version of it. I’m 34 and single and own my own house, my dad won’t be giving permission for me to date, (long story here), but I do have some very close guy friends who will be meeting the guy and giving their approval/disapproval. As well as walking the discernment journey with me and praying with me.

Most of the Catholic couples I know have more of the traditional roles. The man is the provider for the family (This is also very much written into masculinity…down to the natural protecting instinct a man gets after sex) and the wife wants to stay home and take care of the kids.
This is besides the point…you are thinking of literal roleplaying as particular tasks one performs.

We are talking about the natural way that God designed man and woman, and it plays out in the relationship. The man is the pursuer, the giver. The more we work with our natural instincts, the more things work well. When the woman pursues the man, the guy might feel good about himself for awhile, but will quickly lose interest. He has been relieved of the responsibility as the pursuer, so therefore the relationship can quickly decline.

 

[rpp]

To be blunt, the church clearly has shown no interest in taking any roll in the dating scene, I’d rather deal with the reality of it all, and these are modern times which should at least in this case, show a more evolved system. In biblical times, things were much more different, we had traditional courting, arranged marriages, polygamy, etc., an entire system in place within the family unit to have it self sustaining unto itself with a much more detailed manner, much of which is absolutely not accepted these days. For example, it was traditional for the wife to be the land owner and the husband to work that land, now a days, each side participates in both areas, and instead of owning the land, both help pay the bills and mortgage typically through their jobs. I don’t mind washing dishes, I love to cook as well, does that make me less masculine since that’s a roll typically pushed onto the wife?

I sense some anger and a sense of entitlement in your posts on this thread.

How people meet and determine who to marry differs in both history and culture. The scenario you described was certainly not true for most of Europe throughout European history. It was never true in China, Africa or the Middle East.

While I, of course, do not know you, I would say that a man who is unwilling or unable to take on the role of a man, (authentically masculine, not some twisted misogynist idea), is angry, believes that things should be handed to him without him making a effort, and, as agapewolf pointed out, does not fully understand the need for strength tempered by humility, then that man is not really ready to meet, court and most certainly, marry a woman.

 

[prodigalson12]

You’re missing the point, and also, not very tuned into to modern CATHOLIC culture. Courting still happens, or some modified version of it. I’m 34 and single and own my own house, my dad won’t be giving permission for me to date, (long story here), but I do have some very close guy friends who will be meeting the guy and giving their approval/disapproval. As well as walking the discernment journey with me and praying with me.

Most of the Catholic couples I know have more of the traditional roles. The man is the provider for the family (This is also very much written into masculinity…down to the natural protecting instinct a man gets after sex) and the wife wants to stay home and take care of the kids.
This is besides the point…you are thinking of literal roleplaying as particular tasks one performs.

We are talking about the natural way that God designed man and woman, and it plays out in the relationship. The man is the pursuer, the giver. The more we work with our natural instincts, the more things work well. When the woman pursues the man, the guy might feel good about himself for awhile, but will quickly lose interest. He has been relieved of the responsibility as the pursuer, so therefore the relationship can quickly decline.

I’m sorry you think that way, but I gotta bring to the table here, I’m not necessarily looking strictly for a Catholic woman, that’s not only limiting my choices, it’s down right closed minded, I very much enjoy the company of Protestants and I fellowship with them from time to time as well.

If a woman is showing interest and opts to break the ice, she just got awarded a big point in my book, it means she can effectively communicate, this is just a huge plus. You might be confusing this with women that are going after guys who are either out of their league, or the guy may have no physical attraction to them at all, I get that all of the time with the online thing now (ugg, yes I still have an ad posted, lol). At the same time, looking back, I’ve had some really beautiful women giving me hints to ask them out, and honestly, I didn’t feel attractive enough for them, yet clearly I was to them. I won’t make the same mistakes I did before, where I was too insecure/shy to pursue those situations.

 

[prodigalson12]

I sense some anger and a sense of entitlement in your posts on this thread.

While I, of course, do not know you, I would say that a man who is unwilling or unable to take on the role of a man, (authentically masculine, not some twisted misogynist idea), is angry, believes that things should be handed to him without him making a effort, and, as agapewolf pointed out, does not fully understand the need for strength tempered by humility, then that man is not really ready to meet, court and most certainly, marry a woman.

Not quite sure how you all of a suddenly gained psycic abilities to infiltrate my mind and heart to determin exactly how I feel. I’m glad you think you have me figured out, I didn’t know I was angry, thank you…

I’m trying to educate you, hoping you find the capacity to see what’s going on in the real world, not feeling emotion of any kind when it comes down to it, that’s the roll I’m playing here “teacher”, and absolutely just that alone.

I sense a bit of “control” in your mannerisms, that’s not a good thing to have at all, I’d rid myself of that, for that possessive state does nothing but make your partner miserable.

 

[agapewolf]

I’m sorry you think that way, but I gotta bring to the table here, I’m not necessarily looking strictly for a Catholic woman, that’s not only limiting my choices, it’s down right closed minded, I very much enjoy the company of Protestants and I fellowship with them from time to time as well.

If a woman is showing interest and opts to break the ice, she just got awarded a big point in my book, it means she can effectively communicate, this is just a huge plus. You might be confusing this with women that are going after guys who are either out of their league, or the guy may have no physical attraction to them at all, I get that all of the time with the online thing now (ugg, yes I still have an ad posted, lol). At the same time, looking back, I’ve had some really beautiful women giving me hints to ask them out, and honestly, I didn’t feel attractive enough for them, yet clearly I was to them. I won’t make the same mistakes I did before, where I was too insecure/shy to pursue those situations.

It is not closed mined to be looking for a spouse that shares the same Catholic faith. Your spouse is someone that is your vocation…the person that will get you to heaven. Sharing the Eucharist with them is so extremely important in that…to completely be a part of “this is my body given for you”. Your job would be to get your spouse to heaven, and if you have a healthy understanding of the Catholic faith, it would ache your heart every single time you to go mass to receive the Eucharist and your spouse does not. Your spouse wouldn’t be able to receive the sacrament of Reconcilation…the graces from that being infinite in a struggling marriage

You can enjoy the company of protestants without marrying them.

A woman showing interest or breaking the ice is not pursuing. But ultimately it is up to the guy to do it, to make the first move. I’m not confusing anything here.

You sadly have a very skewed view of dating here…out of their league? To use such language puts a hierarcal structure on the dignity of a person, which we all know what that leads to.

 

[agapewolf]

Not quite sure how you all of a suddenly gained psycic abilities to infiltrate my mind and heart to determin exactly how I feel. I’m glad you think you have me figured out, I didn’t know I was angry, thank you…

I’m trying to educate you, hoping you find the capacity to see what’s going on in the real world, not feeling emotion of any kind when it comes down to it, that’s the roll I’m playing here “teacher”, and absolutely just that alone.

I sense a bit of “control” in your mannerisms, that’s not a good thing to have at all, I’d rid myself of that, for that possessive state does nothing but make your partner miserable.

Prodigal, if anyone is showing control issues, it is you. rpp has shown nothing of the kind. He has been very kind with you…YOU are the one that does not see reality. And by reality, I am talking about what we are humans are made for and called to, not what the secular world (read under satan’s influence) tells us is reality.

 

[rpp]

I’m sorry you think that way, but I gotta bring to the table here, I’m not necessarily looking strictly for a Catholic woman, that’s not only limiting my choices, it’s down right closed minded, I very much enjoy the company of Protestants and I fellowship with them from time to time as well.

If a woman is showing interest and opts to break the ice, she just got awarded a big point in my book, it means she can effectively communicate, this is just a huge plus. You might be confusing this with women that are going after guys who are either out of their league, or the guy may have no physical attraction to them at all, I get that all of the time with the online thing now (ugg, yes I still have an ad posted, lol). At the same time, looking back, I’ve had some really beautiful women giving me hints to ask them out, and honestly, I didn’t feel attractive enough for them, yet clearly I was to them. I won’t make the same mistakes I did before, where I was too insecure/shy to pursue those situations.

“Close minded”? WRONG. Realistic is better. What church will you attend? Will you turn away from the the True Church of Christ and imperil your immortal soul for a woman? Or will you force your wife to convert? How can you pray together? What about your children? What church will they attend?

 

[rpp]

Not quite sure how you all of a suddenly gained psycic abilities to infiltrate my mind and heart to determin exactly how I feel. I’m glad you think you have me figured out, I didn’t know I was angry, thank you…

I’m trying to educate you, hoping you find the capacity to see what’s going on in the real world, not feeling emotion of any kind when it comes down to it, that’s the roll I’m playing here “teacher”, and absolutely just that alone.

I sense a bit of “control” in your mannerisms, that’s not a good thing to have at all, I’d rid myself of that, for that possessive state does nothing but make your partner miserable.

I will not rise to this bait. Again, I ask that you please remain charitable, as forum rules require. I am making observations, not judging. I will not return insult for insult.

If you feel anger or offense at what you read, if you feel the heat rising, rather than insult people (who have not insulted you), consider doing what I do. Get up, stretch your legs, do something different and come back to the thread later.

 

[whatevergirl]

You gotta define “first move” here. Did you show through body language or through conversation any interest in him? Were there any signs at all, or was it all him taking all of the risks? Even eye contact alone constitutes a first move.

***Well, we really hit if off when we first met…at a party. We danced, and he asked me out for an official date that evening. My husband is a pretty laid back guy, but assertive when need be. He must have thought it was necessary at that moment. lol He was also quite funny…most women like a man with a sense of humor, too…

Taking risks is sometimes part of life. Taking rejection is, too. I wouldn’t suggest knocking on women’s doors who show absolutely no signs of interest, but be bold, and take initiative. If you and a woman who say are friends, maybe be bold, and write her a letter, if you are shy. Never know what might happen…

But being a ‘shy guy,’ can only be an excuse for so long. Get out there, and be a little bold. Women like a confident man…

You must report back to us with periodic updates. Good luck to you–praying that you will draw your confidence from Christ, as you seek someone for a potential wife.***