Sister going to do the "Homily" in my Parish...

[Walking_Home]

Somehow, I fail to see the “humility” in the dozens of threads here regarding alleged abuses in the Church.

Please elaborate as to how I have “used scripture to undermine the Church’s authority to bind”. The John 8:7 verse? Or perhaps the verse about planks and specks?

I’m not undermining the Church at all. I’m taking a stand against those who seem to feel that they are above the clergy in determining what is right and wrong within the Church.

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The Church has provided sufficient information via Her documents — so that we can determine whether something is an abuse or not. She has not bound us to do everything in our power to stop abuses — and at the same time left us floundering with no direction. Your stand is contrary to the Church’s mandate – for She has bound us to carry this mandate out without favouritism --this being we should not give favor if the abuse originates with the priest — or even bishops.

As to your use of scripture to undermined the Church ----see your post 51.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

The sickning part to me is the gross overeaction to a Nun speaking at Mas. on the list of problems facing the Church this has to rank about 100,000th or lower.Yet this simple (and evdienly rare event) has people calling for videos be sent to the Pope, writing letters to the bisohop , going to another church, ignoring the speaker while praying the rosary and now is eliciting blanket condemnation of the congregation for not runnng this Nun out of the Church on a rail

The above reactions to this abuse may seem over the top if you don’t see the problem with liturgical abuses. It may seem quite desperate. But at some point we just get tired of it because there was little or no response to what has been tried in the past. When I’ve suggested simple things (the Lamb of God in Latin, or TOB to be offered for adult catechesis I was told they didn’t want to impose and force these things on the congregation/parish. What about the illicit practices (like anyone but the ordained giving a homily) imposed on faithful all over the place?

Both sides are guilty of hyperbole or overreacting but I think the more traditional have more of a leg to stand on. The Agnus Dei is allowed; lay homilists are not.

 

[Spiller]

There is an important matter that has not been discussed – responsibility.

Your bishop ultimately has responsibility for the quality of the liturgy in his (arch)diocese. If he has approved this talk in place of a homily, the responsibility rests with him, not you.

And no, you are not an accomplice.

 

[THurifer2]

The Higher Authority I was referring to doesn’t reside here on Earth.

The authority on how Mass is celebrated is the Holy Mother Church…which does reside and sojurns here on earth.

Which by the way is considered the Mystical Body Of CHrist.

Which by the way is the Word present to us via “tradition”…

certainly there is no higher power than GOD! WHo entrusted ALL Matters of Worship to the Magisterium.

Guess the Higher power does reside here on Earth. And we are bound to worship as that “higher” power says…cause God says so…The pillar and foundation of Truth is the Church.

On a side note I have come across many on these forums who have no problems expressing their opinions at the same time demonstrate some sketchy understandning of basic Catholic principles…things like who can recieve holy orders etc. etc…and where authority resides in relation to humans.

 

[Spiller]

The authority on how Mass is celebrated is the Holy Mother Church…which does reside and sojurns here on earth.

Which by the way is considered the Mystical Body Of CHrist.

Which by the way is the Word present to us via “tradition”…

certainly there is no higher power than GOD! WHo entrusted ALL Matters of Worship to the Magisterium.

Guess the Higher power does reside here on Earth. And we are bound to worship as that “higher” power says…cause God says so…The pillar and foundation of Truth is the Church.

On a side note I have come across many on these forums who have no problems expressing their opinions at the same time demonstrate some sketchy understandning of basic Catholic principles…things like who can recieve holy orders etc. etc…and where authority resides in relation to humans.

Yeap, and with respect to the Mass, your connection to that tradition is your pastor and ultimately your bishop. If he has given the OK (right or wrong) then the responsibility is his, not your’s…

 

[scylla]

Well I come back and see that this thread has become busy with a bit of bickering…It is a discussion forum so that is to be expected.

As for the person who thought that it was bad that I was praying the rosary… Hmm it seems you have misinterpreted my reason for objecting to the Sister doing this homily.

Not because it offends me, I am nothing. It does not matter if I am offended or not, and it seems you have interpreted my objection to be as if I was bothered because of this lady’s actions.
I don’t really care about my image or if I look pious or not. I care about serving Christ and not offending God.

I feel terrible because it seems that offending Christ has been dismissed as ok. Is it ok to insult the Priesthood of Jesus, I know it has almost become commonplace for non-catholics but it seems we Catholics have become so accustomed to insulting\dismissing Christ in the Priesthood, that we just brush it off as ok. My poor Bishop needs all the help he can get and I will see how I can help him.

As for praying the Rosary, I can see no other practice that is recommended by our Lady for the reparation of abuses against Christ. We are recommended to do this sort of thing and since I was going to 2 Masses I was able to listen to her talk then pray during her second talk. I did not do it publically, or in any way to show off how pious I am. I am quite sinful and need all the help I can get. It all worked out so that I finished at the exact time she finished and was able to hide the Rosary so no one could notice.

Thank you for your responses and I will write a letter to the Bishop, as we cannot keep offending Christ in this way without suffering the consequences. Impiety and faithlessness is rampant and we need to refocus on Christ as the center of our faith.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[scylla]

BTW, the main part of the homily wasn’t really anything concerning the faith, she did go over the readings as a recap and then told us stories about how she was commisioned to go out to start a school.

It was a waste of time and quite stupid, as it had very little to do with our faith, it was just a bunch of nice stories. I have certainly heard worse homilies from Priests and always heard a better homily from the Priest who sat there. So no I did not miss anything with the Rosary and I certainly was thankful to be given the time to pray.

So if you wondered if I was disrespectful to her, no. I smiled to her and made her feel welcome.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Dauphin]

I know I’m going to get crucified for saying this… but this kind of thing is why I try to avoid the Novus Ordo. There’s far too much room for “chatiness”, a general lack of reverence, and a culture of liturgical abuse which is very common.

I wish it weren’t so.

 

[Spiller]

I know I’m going to get crucified for saying this… but this kind of thing is why I try to avoid the Novus Ordo. There’s far too much room for “chatiness”, a general lack of reverence, and a culture of liturgical abuse which is very common.

I wish it weren’t so.

I find the same thing at the whiz church in the next town over that offers the 22 minute tridentines on sundays at noon. There’s not time for anything in one of those Masses. Real nourishing – not.

 

[LilyM]

I find the same thing at the whiz church in the next town over that offers the 22 minute tridentines on sundays at noon. There’s not time for anything in one of those Masses. Real nourishing – not.

Hang on, I get plenty of nourishment out of my 22-minute weekday Novus Ordos.

You only get out in proportion to what you put in, in terms of listening, paying attention and thinking about what’s happening and what’s being prayed. :getholy:

 

[LRThunder]

If there’s an overreaction to abuses, maybe it’s because the laity are starting to get fed up with the priests and bishops treating the liturgy as their own toy.

I don’t think most will complain about the number of EMHC or when they come up…that is a minor thing, but a lay homilist is a major abuse. Not only does it take away the priest’s responsibility as teacher on Sunday’s, but it is trying to give the impression (whether actual or not) that the laity, particularly women, is no different than the clergy.

Also, I don’t have the exact verse, but I think Paul warns in Romans not to do anything that could be seen as a stumbling block to others. While we shouldn’t go around as the liturgical police, neither should the clergy do anything to promote scandal, outright or implicitly.

 

[estesbob]

BTW, the main part of the homily wasn’t really anything concerning the faith, she did go over the readings as a recap and then told us stories about how she was commisioned to go out to start a school.

It was a waste of time and quite stupid, as it had very little to do with our faith, it was just a bunch of nice stories. I have certainly heard worse homilies from Priests and always heard a better homily from the Priest who sat there. So no I did not miss anything with the Rosary and I certainly was thankful to be given the time to pray.

So if you wondered if I was disrespectful to her, no. I smiled to her and made her feel welcome.

God Bless
Scylla

Your Church is starting a school!??? That is fantastic news indeed.

I guess this is all a matter of ones priorities-where you see a grevious abuse and a waste of time I see a glorious announcement that your Church is going to start a school!

 

[estesbob]

If there’s an overreaction to abuses, maybe it’s because the laity are starting to get fed up with the priests and bishops treating the liturgy as their own toy.

y.

And when people overeact to such a mild and rare event it makes it much for harder for them to be taken seriously when they complain about an egregious abuse.

If the Pope saw a video of this I suspect his reaction would be “parise the Lord-a Church is going to start a school” rather than "I must discipline this Priest for using Mass as his own toy.

 

[Tedster]

But now you’re comparing apples and oranges. My post was in response to a post that claimed that by being present during an alleged abuse made THEM “abused”.

Let’s keep it in context?

It is COMPLETELY in context. You said “Simply being present during, or observing and alleged abuse, doesn’t make you a ‘victim’.” and I said “No, but wouldn’t you be considered an accessory to the crime if you witnessed it and did nothing?” as a response to that statement. How is that not in context?

 

[Brendan]

If the Pope saw a video of this I suspect his reaction would be “parise the Lord-a Church is going to start a school” rather than "I must discipline this Priest for using Mass as his own toy.

It’s not an “either\or” thing, and I don’t think the Pope would have any problems rejoicing in the good news, but mentioning that they would have a better church for the school kids to attend if they followed the liturgical rules.

 

[Tedster]

The sickning part to me is the gross overeaction to a Nun speaking at Mas. on the list of problems facing the Church this has to rank about 100,000th or lower.Yet this simple (and evdienly rare event) has people calling for videos be sent to the Pope, writing letters to the bisohop , going to another chruch, ignoring the speaker while praying the roasary and now is eliciting blanket condemnation of the congregation for not runnng this Nun out of the Church on a rail

Sorry to get you so worked up, Bob. I can see by the number of typos you have in that one paragraph that I must have stepped on a nerve.

You seem to be saying that it is OK to overlook “small” abuses. If that is what you are saying, do you also believe it is OK to overlook “small” sins? Lying, for example, might not be considered as bad as murder, would you agree? By your reasoning, should we just overlook lying as a sin? No.

Why, then, would you think that ANY abuse should be overlooked? All abuses lead to more abuses and before you know it, we have a mess, not a Mass.

 

[THurifer2]

Yeap, and with respect to the Mass, your connection to that tradition is your pastor and ultimately your bishop. If he has given the OK (right or wrong) then the responsibility is his, not your’s…

From Redemptionis Sacramentum

[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff. 290 It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.

 

[japhy]

If I see a woman bonk her husband with a frying pan, that does not make ME a “victim of abuse”. Simply being present during, or observing and alleged abuse, doesn’t make you a “victim”. I do care about abuse…when it’s REAL abuse. This petty nonsense gets quite sickening…but after the sickening feeling passes, it becomes downright comical.

So should we wait until the liturgy itself raises a complaint?

Seriously, though, the liturgy is an action of God and His Church, and as a member of the Church, we can be (and should be) affected by what we see at Mass… positively and negatively. Am I a victim of abuse when the priest (like he did yesterday) pours the Precious Blood from one chalice to another? Personally, no, because I know that the Blood is not a mere beverage to pour from one cup to another. But other people seeing it might start to think differently about just how Precious the Precious Blood is. And heaven forbid (please!) that the priest accidentally spills the Blood as he pours it! But my point is that, to the extent that people are affected by what they witness, they can be victims of liturgical abuse.

Not to mention, if the nun gives her talk and the priest gives no homily, then yes, the entire congregation has been deprived of something that is their right (and the obligation of an ordained man at Mass).

 

[He_Man]

Follow one of the most treasured and long-standing traditions of Catholicism…obey…submit yourself to the authority of the Church.

Sure, but what if the Church is wrong?This sin’t a question of obedience, it is a question of “is this okay?”

 

[estesbob]

Sorry to get you so worked up, Bob. I can see by the number of typos you have in that one paragraph that I must have stepped on a nerve.

.

It does not surprise me that one who pitches a fit over a Nun speaking at Mass about the start of a new school would also be a member of the spell police.