Six German women investigated over Auschwitz crimes

[Darryl1958]

Did not say that only that it makes little difference. It’s my view though that Germans should not keep apologizing for Holocaust and I’m not German. People should not apologize for what their grandparents did. But here’s an idea. Steven Spielberg who is a talented movie director has done movies such as Schindler’s List (didn’t see that 1), Saving Private Ryan (saw that 1) as both movies are about Nazi Germany with the 1st being about Holocaust.

But don’t expect Mr. Spielberg to do a movie on Soviet Holocaust the Holodomor, because again, some of Stalin’s henchmen were Jewish. Hope you don’t mind me extending the topic, but do you think Germans should have to keep apologizing for the Holocaust ? What is your view of the fact that when people such as German politician Martin Hohmann say that many of Stalin’s henchmen were Jewish, he got fired for it-it’s old news as it happened in 2003, but if a German says something critical as he did, then accusations of anti-Semitism happen.

There had already come the point where continued persecution of war crimes against the Jews 60 years after the fact to the exclusion of a systemic persecution of war crimes perpetrated against any other peoples only begins to feed into the conspiracy theories.

In all the horrors that have been perpetrated against Jews since the time pf pharoah, this holocaust in particular stands out as special and uniquely evil, for them.

Unfortunately,in the sordid history of man’s inhumanity against man, it is merely typical.

In this world, there are crimes so horrendous that justice is not possible—in this world. It was the special genius of Nelson Mandela I believe who introduced the concept of a truth and reconciliation forum in order that people could come to the point where co-existence becomes possible again.

 

[Ridgerunner]

That’s it, isn’t it? Unfortunately, these investigations accomplish more in principle than reality.

You should read Christopher Browning’s Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland. He examines the psycholgoical conditioning of a Nazi police force assigned to killing Jews. It’s retroactive, armchair analysis, but it makes you reconsider the popular image of the Nazis as mechanical sociopaths; you never know what “normal” or “good” people are willing to do.

I’m reasonably certain I read that book, or one with a deceptively similar title.

Still, these women lived what for most would be an entire lifetime after being in Auschwitz. Somebody needs to find out how they lived with it; how their lives were affected by it. Lots of things.

 

[Ridgerunner]

That’s fine. Not to generalize but I have found that among Jewish people just by asking them, if you ask what they think of Red Army atrocities by Stalin’s henchmen such as Genrikh Yagoda, Lev Mekhlis, they either will accuse you of anti-Semitic or they’ll make excuses on grounds that it was a war. If you use that argument, 1 can say the Nazis were just doing their duties as a soldier in a war. Not excusing what the Nazis did but soldiers who are sent to war are doing a duty for their nation, right or wrong. It’s like David and Goliath, Goliath was doing his job as a soldier as was David. It has been asked did God forgive Goliath.

I’ll probably get in trouble for this, but here goes.

There were a lot more Jews in the high levels of the early Bolshevik movement than this. Trotsky, Kogan, Kamenev, Zinoviev, Rapoport, Frenkel, many more. Some 38% of the high-ranking Bolsheviks were Jews at one time. Stalin, of course, gradually killed almost all of them. Stalin even imprisoned Pauline Molotov (Jewish) while her (non-Jewish) husband served on the Politburo. Oddly, he did not kill Frenkel, almost alone among all of them; possibly because Frenkel was an effective organizer and more effective killer.

Various people other than the Nazis have opined about the very heavy participation of Jews in early Bolshevism. One explanation is their revulsion against the Tsarist regime which had been oppressive toward them. Another is their higher education level made them more useful than the broad mass of ethnic Russians would have been. Another is that there was a certain belief among some Jews at the time (as now) that the Messiah can’t come until there is world peace and material comfort for all, which Bolshevism promised. Supposedly the Bolshevik Jews were still influenced by that mindset even if they were not religious personally. Another is that the Russian Empire which the Bolsheviks took over, had a lot of well-educated Jews from the old Turkish provinces seized by Russia previously.

Of course, it could have been a combination of some or all of those things. But 38% is a lot in a country that’s only about 3% Jewish today.

 

[gracepoole]

There had already come the point where continued persecution of war crimes against the Jews 60 years after the fact to the exclusion of a systemic persecution of war crimes perpetrated against any other peoples only begins to feed into the conspiracy theories.

In all the horrors that have been perpetrated against Jews since the time pf pharoah, this holocaust in particular stands out as special and uniquely evil, for them.

Unfortunately,in the sordid history of man’s inhumanity against man, it is merely typical.

In this world, there are crimes so horrendous that justice is not possible—in this world. It was the special genius of Nelson Mandela I believe who introduced the concept of a truth and reconciliation forum in order that people could come to the point where co-existence becomes possible again.

First, yes, there is no true justice in the wake of a genocide. This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t and don’t prosecute the perpetrators – whenever they happen to be found. Second, the number of CAF folks who claim that the Holocaust is just another tragedy is always surprising to me. I really – REALLY – suggest folks do some reading on the uniqueness of the Holocaust. If nothing else, one should be able to recognize that it’s unique in several, key ways. I understand that there have been many, many atrocities throughout human history – but this does not mean that the Holocaust was in any way “typical.” Third, rather than thinking of the Holocaust as one of many atrocities against Jews, I would suggest that it should be viewed as the culmination of the centuries of atrocities launched at them previously.

I’m reasonably certain I read that book, or one with a deceptively similar title.

Still, these women lived what for most would be an entire lifetime after being in Auschwitz. Somebody needs to find out how they lived with it; how their lives were affected by it. Lots of things.

They may well have turned their lives around completely. They may now be moral individuals who feel guilt over their past crimes. Or they may not. Either way, they’re still responsible for whatever crimes against humanity they carried out. It’s nice if they’ve “seen the light” since WWII. But their culpability and the sentence meted out to those who are guilty of such crimes isn’t and shouldn’t be predicated on who they are now. This isn’t robbery, after all – it’s the deliberate act of murdering an entire people. I realize this may sound unnecessarily punitive and harsh, or just unnecessary all round. But I think those who spend their lives in the pursuit of these perpetrators and those who choose to legally prosecute them have it right. Once this line has been crossed, no matter who or what you become, you are still a perpetrator of genocide who must be held accountable.

 

[gracepoole]

That’s fine. Not to generalize but I have found that among Jewish people just by asking them, if you ask what they think of Red Army atrocities by Stalin’s henchmen such as Genrikh Yagoda, Lev Mekhlis, they either will accuse you of anti-Semitic or they’ll make excuses on grounds that it was a war. If you use that argument, 1 can say the Nazis were just doing their duties as a soldier in a war. Not excusing what the Nazis did but soldiers who are sent to war are doing a duty for their nation, right or wrong. It’s like David and Goliath, Goliath was doing his job as a soldier as was David. It has been asked did God forgive Goliath.

Christians have different answers for this. 1 can say that a German soldier who was drafted into Wehrmacht, was just doing his job as a soldier as Goliath the Philistine was doing his job as a soldier. There are Christians who have said that Goliath could not be faulted for doing his job as a soldier and that if a German soldier was just fighting for his nation but not 1 of the Holocaust participants, then he is only doing job he was sent to do for his nation, though he was fighting for wrong side as Goliath was.

The second part of the sentence in bold above completely discounts the first part. Soldiers are trained and required to act according to the orders of their supervisors, yes. But this doesn’t mean that soldiers are free to act unethically. In fact, as Browning and others note, members of the Einsatzgruppen really did have options, as did SS officers who chose not to participate in unethical actions. There’s a widespread myth that these men had no choice, but this is not what the historical record demonstrates. Certainly their lives may have been worse off for having rejected an action – I think it’s Richard Rubenstein who notes that an SS officer could have chosen to “accidentally” shoot himself in the foot rather than kill Jews in a massacre like Babi Yar. But a shot foot is ethically preferable, obviously, than the alternative. Additionally, SS officers interviewed years later overwhelmingly reported that they weren’t simply “acting on orders” – they believed in what they were doing and were willingly active (see Laurence Rees’ works on Auschwitz).

 

[Darryl1958]

First, yes, there is no true justice in the wake of a genocide. This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t and don’t prosecute the perpetrators – whenever they happen to be found. Second, the number of CAF folks who claim that the Holocaust is just another tragedy is always surprising to me. I really – REALLY – suggest folks do some reading on the uniqueness of the Holocaust. If nothing else, one should be able to recognize that it’s unique in several, key ways. I understand that there have been many, many atrocities throughout human history – but this does not mean that the Holocaust was in any way “typical.” Third, rather than thinking of the Holocaust as one of many atrocities against Jews, I would suggest that it should be viewed as the culmination of the centuries of atrocities launched at them previously.

 

[lerapt78]

Your forgot to address the main point though, while pushing the emotional buttons.
That is, that uniquely persecuting the Jewish genocide is perpetuating the conspiracy theories, and thereby feeding in the next genocide already being planned.

What does this mean?

 

[gracepoole]

Sure it is unique.
Every individual is unique, and there is no such thing as an untragic genocide.

Your forgot to address the main point though, while pushing the emotional buttons.
That is, that uniquely persecuting the Jewish genocide is perpetuating the conspiracy theories, and thereby feeding in the next genocide already being planned.

“Emotional buttons”? Yeah… no idea what that means.

I didn’t address your point because I don’t see merit in it. No one is seeking Holocaust perpetrators to the exclusion of seeking Cambodian perpetrators, or Romanian perpetrators, or, or, or… The global community’s failure to prosecute those who carried out the Holodomor isn’t a result of its efforts to capture and convict Nazi perpetrators.

 

[Darryl1958]

“Emotional buttons”? Yeah… no idea what that means.

I didn’t address your point because I don’t see merit in it. No one is seeking Holocaust perpetrators to the exclusion of seeking Cambodian perpetrators, or Romanian perpetrators, or, or, or… The global community’s failure to prosecute those who carried out the Holodomor isn’t a result of its efforts to capture and convict Nazi perpetrators.

The argument was never that global failure to prosecute was the result of efforts to capture and convict Nazie perpetrators.

The argument was that the efforts to capture and convict Nazi perpetrators is done in the face of the global failure to prosecute. This presents an unfavorable optics for Jews themselves, especially in this case.

You yourself noted that the centuries of atrocities against the Jews as the backdrop.

Seeing ‘Jews’ successful in their efforts to haul crotchety enfeebled old ladies before the courts, in the face of global failure to prosecute vigorous men for their war crimes, feed the conspiracy theories that it really is the Jews that run the world, just like the antisemitic hate mongers have been saying for some time now.

It is irrelevant if it has merit with you, for it is unlikely that you are a conspiracy theorist, or are even involved feeding the flames of the next Jewish holocaust, which have many Jew haters salivating even now.

Where the argument has merit is in recognizing what kind of photo opportunity that seeing little old ladies hauled before the courts by the ‘big, bad Jew’ will present for the those who would gladly flame the flames of hate against the Jew.

 

[gracepoole]

The argument was never that global failure to prosecute was the result of efforts to capture and convict Nazie perpetrators.

The argument was that the efforts to capture and convict Nazi perpetrators is done in the face of the global failure to prosecute. This presents an unfavorable optics for Jews themselves, especially in this case.

You yourself noted that the centuries of atrocities against the Jews as the backdrop.

Seeing ‘Jews’ successful in their efforts to haul crotchety enfeebled old ladies before the courts, in the face of global failure to prosecute vigorous men for their war crimes, feed the conspiracy theories that it really is the Jews that run the world, just like the antisemitic hate mongers have been saying for some time now.

It is irrelevant if it has merit with you, for it is unlikely that you are a conspiracy theorist, or are even involved feeding the flames of the next Jewish holocaust, which have many Jew haters salivating even now.

Where the argument has merit is in recognizing what kind of photo opportunity that seeing little old ladies hauled before the courts by the ‘big, bad Jew’ will present for the those who would gladly flame the flames of hate against the Jew.

Ah – so we should stop prosecuting Nazi perpetrators in an effort to avoid upsetting antisemites? Determining a course of action based on what racists and bigots think is hardly wise. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news but prosecuting 90-year-old women isn’t the reason Ahmadinejad hates Jews, for example, or Holocaust deniers exist. Yes, I pointed out the long history of anti-Judaism – a history not predicated on how Jews deal with the perpetrators of genocide against them.

 

[Darryl1958]

Ah – so we should stop prosecuting Nazi perpetrators in an effort to avoid upsetting antisemites? Determining a course of action based on what racists and bigots think is hardly wise. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news but prosecuting 90-year-old women isn’t the reason Ahmadinejad hates Jews, for example, or Holocaust deniers exist. Yes, I pointed out the long history of anti-Judaism – a history not predicated on how Jews deal with the perpetrators of genocide against them.

To my mind, it serves no purpose to go after Nazis so long after the fact. It is merely perpetuating a stereotype about Jews with little positive return for them.

That war has already been one any way. In the meantime, Palestinians are celebrating at the latest batch of terrorists released by Israel.

 

[goldtreasure]

This will be a long post and if you want to use several posts to reply to this, then please do so. .

Why Hitler came to power charm and could convince Germans that he had good ideas. Germany and later Austria (after Anschluss) were advanced in many ways during the time of Hitler. Germans were advanced when it came to veterinary science, automotive engineering and other things. While there’s dispute as to whether Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian, it is known that he called himself a vegetarian and proselytized about this. Hitler had signed laws on protecting the eagle (Eagle perched on Swastika is Nazi symbol) fastest way to kill crustaceans, hunting laws and it’s known that Hitler would get irritated by Goering’s hunting. Hitler was also fascinated with ravens, wolves as you have Wolf’s Lair, Eagle’s Nest in Bavaria and Werewolves (Nazi guerillas). In the end Adolf Hitler committed suicide with his new wife Eva Braun and their dog Blondi. There’s more which can be said but Hitler came to power because he had ideas which were convincing and in the beginning, Germans were advanced.

Operation Barbarossa-Traditional view which Professor Richard J. Evans (read his book 3d Reich @ war), Ian Kershaw (read his books Hubris and Nemesis), Holocaust Museum, SWC is that Stalin had no plans to invade Germany and that Operation Barbarossa was Hitler’s plan for lebensraum (living space), along with Lebensborn where Polish, Russian or other children who were blonde haired blue eyed would be kidnapped and Germanized by being given to German families. Slavs would otherwise have minimal education and main interest was to serve Germans. Agree with them on Hitler having ambition for the Germans to be lords of Europe.

Another view of Operation Barbarossa is that Stalin had plans to invade Germany and Operation Barbarossa indirectly was Hitler defending territory. This idea is given by Joachim Hoffman who wrote Stalin’s War of Extermination-read his book. Others who share his view is Russian historian Viktor Suvorov-didn’t read his book as not in the USA and to my knowledge only available in Russian. USSR did have war against Finland in 1939-early 1940. Stalin did have speeches where he talks of spreading Bolshevism. USSR had more soldiers, resources and weapons than the Germans did. While Hitler mainly wanted Lebensraum, it’s also my view that had Operation Barbarossa not happened, USSR would’ve eventually invaded Germany to spread Bolshevism and Communism. Incidentally, Japan and Germany were untrustworthy allies. Alliances with Finland (Mannerheim), Hungary (Miklos Horthy), Rumania (Ion Antonescu) and Bulgaria (King Boris) were either for convenience or under war threat as when the war went against the Germans, these nations either had peace or joined Allies against Germany.

Holocaust-Nazi Germany’s original policy was emigration for Jews to leave Europe. Discriminatory laws were passed against Jews. Hitler originally wanted emigration policy where the Jews would leave Europe and emigrate to Palestine or an African nation such as Madagascar. Adolf Eichmann had met with Jewish leaders in 1936 Palestine to work out emigration policy. It was officially in January 1942 (Lake Wansee Conf.) that it changed to extermination policy regarding the Jews but it’s believed the extermination policy unoffiically began in 1941 during Operation Barbarossa. Nazis used euphemisms when they did Holocaust such as say resettlement, evacuation, rather than extermination, gassings, etc. Hitler in speeches continued to say Madagascar even after he knew the policy changed to extermination.

Jerusalem Mufti Amin al Husseini met with Hitler and Eichmann in 1941 and asked that Jewish emigration to Palestine end. Since the end of war, Zionist leaders including Simon Wiesenthal Center have accused the Jeruslaem Mufti of being 1 of Holocaust architects. While it’s true the Mufti opposed Jewish emigration to Palestine (which Nazi Germany first wanted), whether he personally took part in Final Solution has been disputed. We do know that Nazis had a plan to use Einsatzgruppen Egypt where Arab and Berber soldiers (North Africa) would take part in exterminating Jewish populations in Palestine. As Germany and Italy were defeated in the African Campaign, Einsatzgruppen Egypt didn’t happen. But was their intent to exterminate Jewish populations or was their intent to force Jews to leave Palestine? Jews and Arabs have a turbulent history there.

Why did Nazi Germany’s policy change from emigration to extermination-only Hitler knew. It’s possible the Holocaust happened as a retaliation to the Holodomor as Stalin’s henchmen were Jewish and millions were starved, worked to death, shot and killed during the Soviet Red Terror Holocaust-Holodomor. Nazis used Holodomor as an excuse to commit the Holocaust. If there hadn’t been a Holodomor, would there have been a Holocaust-we don’t know and can speculate either yes or no.

Regardless of why the Holocaust happened. The Holocaust happened because those who did it believed they were right. Nazis had collaborators such as Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians and others in former USSR. There were Poles and Czechs who had collaborated with the Nazis. Jews were accused of being Communists, among other things. At last, should Holocaust history also include stories of those in the Einsatzgruppen (Special Action Groups)-those who shot Jewish men, women and children in the ditches, though most are now dead. They are history witnesses and Holocaust history should also require hearing those who did the killings to know why they did it, though it’s hard to know if they’re honest. The Germans who committed the Holocaust were everyday people such as opera singers, skiers, engineers (those who build gas vans and gas chambers), Drs (Josef Mengele, Klaus Schilling) and they did it because they believed what they did.

 

[gracepoole]

To my mind, it serves no purpose to go after Nazis so long after the fact. It is merely perpetuating a stereotype about Jews with little positive return for them.

That war has already been one any way. In the meantime, Palestinians are celebrating at the latest batch of terrorists released by Israel.

Efraim Zuroff of the SWC spoke to my group of educators at Yad Vashem several years ago about Nazi hunting and why it persists. Here’s a more recent piece by him – worthy reading:

cnn.com/2012/09/24/opinion/zuroff-nazi-hunting

 

[lerapt78]

Efraim Zuroff of the SWC spoke to my group of educators at Yad Vashem several years ago about Nazi hunting and why it persists. Here’s a more recent piece by him – worthy reading:

cnn.com/2012/09/24/opinion/zuroff-nazi-hunting

Did Efraim Zuroff happen to mention anything about money??

Lest we forget that the Simon Wiesenthal Center played its own part in the $1.25 Billion-dollar extortion racket against the Swiss banks a little over a decade ago.

 

[gracepoole]

Did Efraim Zuroff happen to mention anything about money??

Lest we forget that the Simon Wiesenthal Center played its own part in the $1.25 Billion-dollar extortion racket against the Swiss banks a little over a decade ago.

Extortion? I’m aware of the SWC’s class action lawsuit against Swiss banks that failed to return assets to Jewish victims. Is this what you’re referring to by claiming the organization is involved in extortion?

 

[lerapt78]

Extortion? I’m aware of the SWC’s class action lawsuit against Swiss banks that failed to return assets to Jewish victims. Is this what you’re referring to by claiming the organization is involved in extortion?

Yes, in part. Those lawsuits formed only a piece of a larger network that put an ongoing pressure against the banks to settle before full investigations of all assets could be conducted, and included onslaughts of negative publicity against the Swiss (via the American press), allegations of secrecy, cover-ups, and criminality perpetrated by the Swiss governments and referred to by a certain politician D’Amato (who was at the time trying to get Jewish support for his race to the senate).

The SWC lawsuit - among others - pressured the Swiss into giving in to financial demands set high above whatever assets the banking records showed were actually in dormant accounts. This was done all along among insinuations that if the Swiss didn’t comply, international pressure would be applied so that foreign investors would be reluctant to do business with the Swiss.

 

[gracepoole]

Yes, in part. Those lawsuits formed only a piece of a larger network that put an ongoing pressure against the banks to settle before full investigations of all assets could be conducted, and included onslaughts of negative publicity against the Swiss (via the American press), allegations of secrecy, cover-ups, and criminality perpetrated by the Swiss governments and referred to by a certain politician D’Amato (who was at the time trying to get Jewish support for his race to the senate).

The SWC lawsuit - among others - pressured the Swiss into giving in to financial demands set high above whatever assets the banking records showed were actually in dormant accounts. This was done all along among insinuations that if the Swiss didn’t comply, international pressure would be applied so that foreign investors would be reluctant to do business with the Swiss.

Okay… Let’s say this is an accurate depiction of events. What does this have to do with prosecuting Nazi criminals?

 

[HollyDolly]

It makes little difference 1 way or the other now. As Nazis have continued to be prosecuted and punished (last execution of a Nazi happened in 1966 in former East Germany) even as last 1 dies off, perpetrators of Stalin’s Holocaust-Holodomor were not punished. Final Solution was about exterminating Jewry. Holodomor or Soviet Holocaust in early 1930s where millions were killed by being starved to death in famine (esp. Ukraine), beaten, shot and worked to death in GULag or building Soviet Railroad went unpunished. Josef Stalin was a ruthless dictator who took more lives than Hitler. Incidentally, some of Stalin’s henchmen were Jewish such as Lazar Kaganovich, Genrikh Yagoda and Lev Mekhlis. No, they didn’t do it because of Judaism but because they were Communists.

There were no courts to punish them and they were only prisoned or executed if they became a threat to Soviet leadership. Ironically, the Nazis executed some Stalin’s henchmen during Operation Barbarossa by the Commissar Order. Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians and Ukrainians fought on the side of Wehrmacht (German Armed Forces) against Soviet Red Army during Operation Barbarossa in Stalingrad and Leningrad Battles as tjeu wamted to be free of USSR. Yes, Nazis did bad things especially with Holocaust extermination of Jewry. Nazis sometimes killed bad people-of course if you’re killing millions in a war, you’ll sometimes kill bad people such as Stalin’s henchmen. We have continued to pursue Nazi war criminals so many years after the war, but Stalin’s henchmen have gotten away with it. With Nazi Germany’s ally Imperial Japan, other than the Tokyo, Manila and Nanking trials, we haven’t to my knowledge prosecuted Japanese soldiers who took part in Bataan Massacre, etc. Shiro Ishii who did parachuted fleabombs (similar to daisy cutters in Vietnam only that it carried plague, typhoid and anthrax viruses) was not punished for what he did and he died in 1957.

You’re right.Lot of people don’t know or even care about what Stalin and the rest of them did in the Ukraine and elsewhere. I hadrelatives that lived in Latvia, during World War 2 in Riga and Libau,though whether any of them are still left,don’t know. They were germans that came to Latvia centuries ago,back when the Germans had a crusade under the Teutonic Knights to convert the baltic tribes.
And as you say, the Japanese have never been prosectued for the Bataan Death march or anything else. Unless, maybe the Chinese have done so for the rape of Nanking and elsewhere in their country. But if so,it has never made the Western News sources.

 

[lerapt78]

Okay… Let’s say this is an accurate depiction of events. What does this have to do with prosecuting Nazi criminals?

It is very accurate, and very well-documented.

It relates to this thread, because the SWC is clearly desirous of seeking out new Germans to prosecute. When an organization has benefitted enormously from its involvement in lawsuits regarding this same subject matter - the legitimacies of which are a matter of contention - its motives behind new appeals become suspect.

I’ll have to dig back a bit to refresh my memory on this, but if I recall correctly, I believe it was the ADL itself who made the statement some time ago that the Simon Wiesenthal Center has a tendency to highly exaggerate so-called Nazi crimes at best, and at worst has even been caught in flat-out false accusations. Coming from the ADL of all people, that is really something.

Since the article you suggested we read as justification for this new witch-hunt was written by a member of the SWC, it’s only fair to point out that Mr. Zuroff could simply be building up a case for future monetary compensation or anti-German propaganda behind the appeals for sympathy he puts forth in his article.

Furthermore, it would be interesting to discuss exactly who will get to decide if these German women are truly guilty of anything, and which metrics will be used as far as determining what kind of evidence is valid or not. The infamous Nuremburg trials, under which Germans were severely prosecuted, was organized entirely by their own enemies (hardly what one could call an impartial process). Even questioning certain aspects of the “official” holocaust narrative is illegal today in Germany. How exactly then will these women (and any future defendants) ever be able to defend themselves fairly before a court of law that says one can’t even dispute the accuracy of many holocaust claims presented as “facts”?

This bias in the German legal system suggests that any court proceedings having to do with this historical event make a gross mockery of true “justice”.

The SWC has its own agenda, and I don’t believe it’s a noble one.

 

[HollyDolly]

I’ll probably get in trouble for this, but here goes.

There were a lot more Jews in the high levels of the early Bolshevik movement than this. Trotsky, Kogan, Kamenev, Zinoviev, Rapoport, Frenkel, many more. Some 38% of the high-ranking Bolsheviks were Jews at one time. Stalin, of course, gradually killed almost all of them. Stalin even imprisoned Pauline Molotov (Jewish) while her (non-Jewish) husband served on the Politburo. Oddly, he did not kill Frenkel, almost alone among all of them; possibly because Frenkel was an effective organizer and more effective killer.

Various people other than the Nazis have opined about the very heavy participation of Jews in early Bolshevism. One explanation is their revulsion against the Tsarist regime which had been oppressive toward them. Another is their higher education level made them more useful than the broad mass of ethnic Russians would have been. Another is that there was a certain belief among some Jews at the time (as now) that the Messiah can’t come until there is world peace and material comfort for all, which Bolshevism promised. Supposedly the Bolshevik Jews were still influenced by that mindset even if they were not religious personally. Another is that the Russian Empire which the Bolsheviks took over, had a lot of well-educated Jews from the old Turkish provinces seized by Russia previously.

Of course, it could have been a combination of some or all of those things. But 38% is a lot in a country that’s only about 3% Jewish today.

Nothing wrong with what you stated.My late father mentioned these very facts years ago.