Slander from the NY Times

[goout]

KJW5551:

ulian, less than 4% of men are gay. That’s just a fact. See Gallup if you don’t believe me.

I didn’t say otherwise. But you are extrapolating general population statistics onto a defined class.
And you continue to act as if the reporter made a claim – actually, it was a priest quoted in the article.

So let me just post the headline and sub-head from this article, and tell me it is not prejudicial and slanderous to the Catholic Church and it’s priests (with a straight face).
Here it is:

‘It Is Not a Closet. It Is a Cage.’ Gay Catholic Priests Speak Out​

The crisis over sexuality in the Catholic Church goes beyond abuse. It goes to the heart of the priesthood, into a closet that is trapping thousands of men.

In one headline we have the assertion that the Church is a sexual prison.
That the Catholic Church is in crisis over sexuality. And that crisis is beyond abuse.
And is trapping thousands of men.

And that is not inflammatory or slanderous.
ok…

 

[goout]

adgloriam:

angel12:

There’s a difference between making a claim yourself (…) and reporting what someone else says

YES!!! Hearsay is a form of gossip and “blanket slander” AKA IMMORAL AND UNETHICAL reporting.

Perhaps the NYT reporter went on over to Church Militant…

No I think it’s clear that the NT Times worships with the rest of our culture at the “Church of absolute sexual license”.

I believe in one god, the freedom to be and do sex at all times…

A very pagan and superstitious way to live, eh? (and Christians are bronze age mythologists?)

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

adgloriam:

angel12:

There’s a difference between making a claim yourself (…) and reporting what someone else says

YES!!! Hearsay is a form of gossip and “blanket slander” AKA IMMORAL AND UNETHICAL reporting.

Perhaps the NYT reporter went on over to Church Militant…

No I think it’s clear that the NT Times worships with the rest of our culture at the “Church of absolute sexual license”.

From what I can tell the newspaper was simply reporting what someone inside the Church said, and considering there are no lack of socially conservative Catholics that make similar claims, I’m not sure why you’re up in arms about the NYT, and not, say, condemning Church Militant.

 

[goout]

goout:

niceatheist:

adgloriam:

angel12:

There’s a difference between making a claim yourself (…) and reporting what someone else says

YES!!! Hearsay is a form of gossip and “blanket slander” AKA IMMORAL AND UNETHICAL reporting.

Perhaps the NYT reporter went on over to Church Militant…

No I think it’s clear that the NT Times worships with the rest of our culture at the “Church of absolute sexual license”.

From what I can tell the newspaper was simply reporting what someone inside the Church said, and considering there are no lack of socially conservative Catholics that make similar claims, I’m not sure why you’re up in arms about the NYT, and not, say, condemning Church Militant.

We are not talking about Church Militant, but he’s an empty hat also.
ok…what next

You’d like to politicize this, and my point is that both of the spectrums you mention are political hacks and can’t be taken seriously (other than the damage they do)

 

[niceatheist]

We are not talking about Church Militant, but he’s an empty hat also.
ok…what next

The NYT reporter makes it clear that there is no solid number as to the number of gay priests in the US. I fail to see how anything about the reporting was wrong, other than it makes some people angry.

 

[JulianN]

Here’s the thing – we don’t know that it’s libelous. It appears to be a report of quotes from Catholic priests. If it turns out those priests didn’t say those things, then I’d agree it’s libelous.

I’m not saying it’s true – I don’t know. And neither do you. Clearly, some priests think it is. The story is reporting their experience. None of that qualifies as libel.

 

[goout]

goout:

We are not talking about Church Militant, but he’s an empty hat also.
ok…what next

The NYT reporter makes it clear that there is no solid number as to the number of gay priests in the US. I fail to see how anything about the reporting was wrong, other than it makes some people angry.

You as a thinking person see nothing wrong with the headline? If you want to smear someone, you are counting on a non-inquisitive reader who will not go past the headline to read and think. So…mission accomplished with the headline and sub-heading.

‘It Is Not a Closet. It Is a Cage.’ Gay Catholic Priests Speak Out​

The crisis over sexuality in the Catholic Church goes beyond abuse. It goes to the heart of the priesthood, into a closet that is trapping thousands of men.

So you see nothing amiss here. That’s a headline with serious journalistic integrity, with no apparent bias…
ok

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

goout:

We are not talking about Church Militant, but he’s an empty hat also.
ok…what next

The NYT reporter makes it clear that there is no solid number as to the number of gay priests in the US. I fail to see how anything about the reporting was wrong, other than it makes some people angry.

You as a thinking person see nothing wrong with the headline? If you want to smear someone, you are counting on a non-inquisitive reader who will not go past the headline to read and think. So…mission accomplished with the headline and sub-heading.

‘It Is Not a Closet. It Is a Cage.’ Gay Catholic Priests Speak Out​

The crisis over sexuality in the Catholic Church goes beyond abuse. It goes to the heart of the priesthood, into a closet that is trapping thousands of men.

So you see nothing amiss here. That’s a headline with serious journalistic integrity, with no apparent bias…
ok

It seems newsworthy to me. That it makes some people uncomfortable isn’t a metric for whether any story is true or not. And goodness gracious, all news organizations use “gotcha” headlines. I don’t like them, but that’s how they get eyeballs on the page.

 

[goout]

It seems newsworthy to me. That it makes some people uncomfortable isn’t a metric for whether any story is true or not. And goodness gracious, all news organizations use “gotcha” headlines. I don’t like them, but that’s how they get eyeballs on the page.

Ok great. It’s about getting those eyeballs.
Did you know that atheists killed 10’s of millions of people in the last century.
That’s right. Atheists did that. Aren’t you an atheist? THAT’s a headline.

Atheism is the home of rampant murder.

So perhaps this is more than discomfort…it’s about being truthful. Being untruthfully characterized is no fun, to put it lightly.

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

It seems newsworthy to me. That it makes some people uncomfortable isn’t a metric for whether any story is true or not. And goodness gracious, all news organizations use “gotcha” headlines. I don’t like them, but that’s how they get eyeballs on the page.

Ok great. It’s about getting those eyeballs.
Did you know that atheists killed 10’s of millions of people in the last century.
That’s right. Atheists did that. Aren’t you an atheist? THAT’s a headline.

Atheism is the home of rampant murder.

So perhaps this is more than discomfort…it’s about being truthful. Being untruthfully characterized is no fun, to put it lightly.

I won’t deny Stalin and Mao killed lots of people. That has absolutely nothing to do with this article.

 

[goout]

I won’t deny Stalin and Mao killed lots of people. That has absolutely nothing to do with this article.

Said as only a materialst could say.
Well, you are right about that!

What is has to do with is honesty, journalistic integrity, etc…you know, all those things we’ve been talking about.
But no, atheism has nothing to do directly with the article. You’re right.

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

I won’t deny Stalin and Mao killed lots of people. That has absolutely nothing to do with this article.

Said as only a materialst could say.
Well, you are right about that!

What is has to do with is honesty, journalistic integrity, etc…you know, all those things we’ve been talking about.
But no, atheism has nothing to do directly with the article. You’re right.

There’s nothing dishonest about the journalism. It’s a speculative number, as the article makes clear. And unless you know the journalist is an atheist, and further, that atheist tinged the reporting, I’d say your complaint is at best a diversionary tactic.

 

[goout]

goout:

niceatheist:

I won’t deny Stalin and Mao killed lots of people. That has absolutely nothing to do with this article.

Said as only a materialst could say.
Well, you are right about that!

What is has to do with is honesty, journalistic integrity, etc…you know, all those things we’ve been talking about.
But no, atheism has nothing to do directly with the article. You’re right.

There’s nothing dishonest about the journalism. It’s a speculative number, as the article makes clear. And unless you know the journalist is an atheist, and further, that atheist tinged the reporting, I’d say your complaint is at best a diversionary tactic.

Well, just for the readers, YOU are diverting.
I made no claim the journalist is an atheist . ?
And I made no claim, or comment about numbers.

I observed as any common sense person can observe, the article is inflammatory and prejudicial to priests and the Catholic Church. And the headline demonstrates it.

Do you think prejudice is honest?
Do you think inflammatory reporting is honest?
For instance, if I did this as a reporter, would it be honest treatment of you?

Did you know that atheists killed 10’s of millions of people in the last century.
That’s right. Atheists did that. Aren’t you an atheist? THAT’s a headline.

Atheism is the home of rampant murder.

Makes a great headline doesn’t it. Sell those eyeballs some pickup trucks.

 

[adgloriam]

adgloriam:

angel12:

There’s a difference between making a claim yourself (…) and reporting what someone else says

YES!!! Hearsay is a form of gossip and “blanket slander” AKA IMMORAL AND UNETHICAL reporting.

Perhaps the NYT reporter went on over to Church Militant…

I never read ‘Church Militant’ since it doesn’t represent anything of what being Catholic is. (I heard church authorities in their Dioceses went to court to have’em remove Catholic from their name…)

 

[KJW5551]

For those saying “oh, the reporter is just reporting what priests themselves say”, well, when you go out looking for a bunch of gay priests, and you’re writing a story with an angle already in mind, and you don’t bother to look at any real research or talk to any heterosexual priests, I guess that’s what happens. A bunch of people with an agenda slandering the Church.

 

[adgloriam]

It seems newsworthy to me.

It certainly isn’t - and ethical news outlets prove as much through their consistency.

There’s nothing dishonest about the journalism.

There certainly is lots of dishonesty in that journalism.

It’s a speculative number,

It’s a pile of outright lies well within the absurd.

So there you go…

 

[0331]

It’s been mentioned that Church Militant has reported similar statistics.

Voris and Church Militant are a bit much for most Catholics. But he is still Catholic and still loves the Church and wants Her sins exposed and dealt with.

So, a leftwing secular newspaper and a Catholic news source on the opposite side of the spectrum are reporting similar statistics albeit with entirely different motives.

It’s for the best that this corruption be exposed and dealt with. As far as the faith of the regular people in the pews—

Our faith is in Jesus, not the hierarchy. We believe in the infallibility of the Church to teach,
not to be confused with the moral impeccability of Her teachers.

 

[TheLittleLady]

The original post feels “no true Scottsman”-esque.

 

[KJW5551]

Hey Little Lady, thanks for chiming in. Very helpful to the discussion, glad you’re here.

 

[JMMJ]

So you see nothing amiss here. That’s a headline with serious journalistic integrity, with no apparent bias…
ok

What would you prefer the headline to be?