Slander from the NY Times

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I don’t think anyone doubts that homosexuality is disproportionate in the priesthood compared to the general population.

And I don’t think anyone doubts that priests have abused others. (although here’s a revelation for the NY Times: any child is about 100 times more likely to be abused by a schoolteacher than a priest. Very inconvenient for the narrative! )

When does normal human bias become slant and/or deception? Look at this headline:

‘It Is Not a Closet. It Is a Cage.’ Gay Catholic Priests Speak Out​

The crisis over sexuality in the Catholic Church goes beyond abuse. It goes to the heart of the priesthood, into a closet that is trapping thousands of men.
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The problem with this headline is not that it shows normal human bias, it’s that it is sensational (what they use to call “yellow”), inflammatory , and prejudiced.

In fact, no one has touched on this yet, but it think it should be pointed out that the assertion of this headline is abjectly stupid.
It proposes that a free human being who made a choice to be a priest is trapped by the evil Catholic Church against his will. He is trapped by the evil Catholic Church, in a sexual closet that is “more like a cage”. Because we all know, sex is a God-like thing, and we are helpless victims in the arms of anything related to sex.

Give me a break. This priest should follow his conscience and simply walk out the door, and find a job at Walmart, if the Church is holding him as a sort of sex slave.

But no, common sense is not very titillating is it.
 
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Jennifer Fitz writes,
Dear Gay Catholic Priests

www.patheos.com

Dear Gay Catholic Priests,

I've been reading about your plight in the New York Times. So let's go ahead and clear something up right now: Most Catholics don't give a rip who it is
www.patheos.com www.patheos.com
 
AlNg said:
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KJW5551:
This is what slander looks like; this article is baseless from the very beginning and should be retracted.
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OK, but I thought that Father James Martin, S.J. says that this is a wise, thoughtful, and well researched article. This was from a Fr Z blog:
[http://wdtprs.com/blog/2019/02/the-rome-summit-gay-priests-and-sodoclericalism-wherein-fr-z-rants/ ]
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@KJW5551 just a note since apparently one priests blog opinion is taken as legitimizing the trend this OP falls within.

There has been some “stirring” recently regarding Frédéric Martels latest book (if you subscribe to any mainstream book-seller’s newsfeed, you received notice). However, the author Frédéric Martel -and everything he stands for- has no credibility whatsoever. He falls within a clearly identified lobby (pseudo-legitimized by a marketing machine together with a pseudo-academic-tenure) that the French/European school of thought is immediate to dismiss as political and devoid of truthfulness. Indeed, he and this “all-homo-suspicion-on-clergy-casting” are just yesterdays “happening” in today’s packaging. It will be gone tomorrow as it will be back not long after that - and the Fréderic Martel’s are, however, utterly devoid of any truthfulness.
 
minux said:
We have fundamental areas of discussion. Are there a disproportionate number of homosexual priests compared to society? If so, why is that a matter of concern other than that being a Cross to bear as a Catholic? Is the abuse by Priests greater in the Church than mainstream society? What criteria for comparison are we utilizing?

Per Pope Francis, as we are dealing with spiritual salvation via an institution, abuse by any form of a Church official is a serious issue.

However, the Church remains a positive exemplar in many peoples’ lives. With the same logic as the critiques, does that mean everyone in society should join Our Church, because it is such a positive force for many?
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I think we know the answers to most of these questions.

Yes, there are a disproportionate number of gay men in the priesthood. In my opinion, that is a concern only in that the way the Church has dealt with that fact, and with sexuality in general, has contributed to the various scandals, crises and hypocrisies in the Church.

Yes, it appears the abuse in the Church is greater than it is in mainstream society. More importantly, the Church has been more reticent to deal with that abuse, and more accepting of abuse by clerics in general.

The real questions to ask are first, what are we going to do about it? Not just the Church’s leaders, but all of us. Second, why is this the case? The second is important mostly because we may need to answer it to properly address the issue.

Its way past time to stop blaming those that are reporting the problems (even if they are not always perfect) and start dealing with the actual problem.
 
That’s a good thing. I stand corrected. I think some excommunications would be in order.
 
TMC said:
Yes, there are a disproportionate number of gay men in the priesthood. In my opinion, that is a concern only in that the way the Church has dealt with that fact, and with sexuality in general, has contributed to the various scandals, crises and hypocrisies in the Church.
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And at the same time, we have the strange intransigence that won’t even consider the married priesthood, which is not dogmatically prohibited, but rather a legal discipline (canon lawyers, have at it).
The system is demgraphically skewed in the way you observe, but if you even mention the married priesthood you are in heterodox hell.

Makes no sense. We look at every other option but that one that really makes sense.
 
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goout said:
And at the same time, we have the strange intransigence that won’t even consider the married priesthood, which is not dogmatically prohibited, but rather a legal discipline (canon lawyers, have at it).
The system is demgraphically skewed in the way you observe, but if you even mention the married priesthood you are in heterodox hell.

Makes no sense. We look at every other option but that one that really makes sense.
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Unfortunately, I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that the two issues (the disproportionate number of gay men in Church leadership, and the reluctance to return to a married priesthood) are connected.
 
TMC said:
I think we know the answers to most of these questions.
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Do we, now?
TMC said:
Yes, there are a disproportionate number of gay men in the priesthood. In my opinion, that is a concern only in that the way the Church has dealt with that fact, and with sexuality in general, has contributed to the various scandals, crises and hypocrisies in the Church.
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You are saying a higher percentage of gay priests exist than secular gay men?
TMC said:
Yes, it appears the abuse in the Church is greater than it is in mainstream society. More importantly, the Church has been more reticent to deal with that abuse, and more accepting of abuse by clerics in general.
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Far from it. The recent #metoo movement showcases the societal epidemic of global abuse.
TMC said:
The real questions to ask are first, what are we going to do about it? Not just the Church’s leaders, but all of us. Second, why is this the case? The second is important mostly because we may need to answer it to properly address the issue.
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How do we fix it as Catholics? What would cure the victims and abusers?
TMC said:
Its way past time to stop blaming those that are reporting the problems (even if they are not always perfect) and start dealing with the actual problem.
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I nor my Priest ever blamed victims and never treated those abused without the deepest concern for their healing and well being.
 
I think that to the extent there are still Catholics that do not think the Church has a serious problem (or that the Church is better or at least not worse than the rest of society) they are either ill informed or kidding themselves.

How do we fix it? The days of simply trusting the hierarchy to do what’s best are over, or should be. All Catholics should demand that the leaders of the Church institute real reform and real transparency. Its obvious neither has happened yet, and we simply cannot tolerate that. The laity needs to step up and demand answers and actions. Nothing else will work, in my opinion.
 
TMC said:
I think that to the extent there are still Catholics that do not think the Church has a serious problem (or that the Church is better or at least not worse than the rest of society) they are either ill informed or kidding themselves.
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We can say this about any person’s sin.
TMC said:
real reform and real transparency.
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An example of this would be? What will you personally do to ensure this is implemented?
TMC said:
The laity needs to step up and demand answers and actions. Nothing else will work, in my opinion.
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Today is a new day. What will you do before the day’s end to help bring resolution to the abuse crisis?
 
minux said:
An example of this would be? What will you personally do to ensure this is implemented?
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Simply put, total clerical control of the Church must end. Every parish should have a council made up of lay members, and that council should control the parish finances, and have meaningful (name removed by moderator)ut into all personnel decisions. Those councils should have the authority to see everything going on in the parish, including looking into any and all complaints and accusations. A similar body should exist at the diocese. Although that will not solve all the problems, that would be a good start. If nothing else, it may help get the problems out into the light where they belong. The Church has been hiding its various issues and problems from the laity - the Body of the Church - for far too long.
 
Kind of like secular government, right? We could form mini UNs at every Parish? We see how incorruptible World Governments are, right?

I do not see how you jump to abuses to revolutionizing the hierarchy. An underling current of Church struggles is the secularization of the Church. We should not progressively make decisions for the sake of progress.

The solution is simple: go back to the basics, the 10 Commandments, and the Words of Our Savior. Everything else should not be tolerated.
 
I started the post in Apologetics because no one reads the news section. That’s where discussion goes to die.
 
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