Small Questions about The Miracle of The Sun...

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fred_conty said:
Just google “miracle of Fatima” and you can read what movements the sun made. They have photos of the people as well.

As I read it, the miracle of the sun did not happen but for a few moments, so it probably all took place too quickly for the crowd to react and panic.

But another miracle as a result of this sun dance is not sufficiently recognized for the miracle that it was. It was the miracle of the sun drying out the clothes of the people and drying out the muck of the mud as a result of all the rain that poured down the night before.
The people were soaking wet and the ground was a quagmire of slippery mud. And this was all made dry within a few minutes. So this miracle cannot be explained away by any psychological reasoning since it was a fact outside of the mind that took place in reality.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
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Wait…i just remembered…wasn’t there a photograph of the sun taken that day?

If people can take photographs with cameras…why couldn’t the just run and panic too?
 
Path_Finder said:
They were probably a bit paralyzed; again, it seems there was a variation of hues and yes, at one point, the sun seemed to come down as if it was going to crash to earth.

I have thought before, too bad CNN didn’t exist back then.

Of course, the NY Times reported on it, I’ve seen the article.

As did the Portuguese paper, the Century or “O Seculo”, all of those things can be found on the web.
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Wait…I also just remembered…wasn’t there a photograph of the sun taken that day?

If people can take photographs with cameras…why couldn’t the just run and panic too?
 
flower_lady said:
I’m not superstitious about all the many events happening on the 13th of these months and years. I simply think it was deliberate and another sign to let us know that the apparitions were true. I think Our Lady let these things happen on the 13th on purpose. I think it was a good thing.
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Me too.
 
Memaw said:
Instead of guessing about what happened at Fatima in 1917 and what was said, we need to get all the ‘truthful’ information from the World Apostolate of Fatima. It is appointed by the Vatican to be the Official promoter of all pertaining to the Fatima Apparitions. Any superstitious meaning connected to any number is wrong. Trust God, and thank him for sending us our Lady to draw us back to Her SON. God Bless, Memaw
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Pease read carefully. I believe I said Our Lady REMOVES the superstition associated with this.
No one is talking about superstition as a way to think or believe. :rolleyes:
 
SilverAvenger said:
My great grandmother was 6 when that happened, and she was sick with TB. Her father, back in Tras os Montes heard the news about the miracle to happen and went there with my Greatgrandmother. They saw the sun dancing and when the miracle ended, and they returned, the doctor said that she was cured.

She said that she fealt a mix of awe and terror as the sun danced and the sacred family appeared in the sky during the Sun’s dance, and that the atmosphere was heavy, like if it was about to thunder. She fealt weight on her chest and fealt the mud going dry under her shoes.

She never told that to anyone because the masonry-related officials would’ve arrested her.

Remarcably, she’s still alive. She can’t walk and lives in a bed, but she’s still alive. 🙂
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Thank you for more information. Did your great grandmother see the Holy Family in the sky herself? I have never heard that anyone, other than the seers, actually saw any heavenly visitors.
 
NormalBeliever said:
Wait…I also just remembered…wasn’t there a photograph of the sun taken that day?

If people can take photographs with cameras…why couldn’t the just run and panic too?
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I have only ever seen crowd photos. I feel confident no one actually tried to take a picture of the sun or at least, no such photos have ever been published. I’ve seen I’d think about everything to do with Fatima. The story itself, I may learn something new about though.
 
boomerang said:
Thank you for more information. Did your great grandmother see the Holy Family in the sky herself? I have never heard that anyone, other than the seers, actually saw any heavenly visitors.
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Good question, I found this. Of course, researching it in books would be a better source but nonetheless:
The three children (Lucia dos Santos, Jacinta Marto and Francisco Marto) who originally claimed to have seen Our Lady of Fátima also reported seeing a panorama of visions, including those of Jesus, Our Lady of Sorrows, Our Lady of Mt. Carmel, and of Saint Joseph blessing the people.[1]
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun

Interestingly, I read the link you left on a prior page to the book and the book claimed “Our Lady of the Rosary” was seen. So though this is a small detail, it is an interesting difference nonetheless.

Those who follow Our Lady of Fatima are often deeply vested in the Brown Scapular, I would say the main reason for that is that accordingly, Our Lady of Mt. Carmel appeared. The Brown Scapular seems very central to the First Saturday Devotions.
 
JohnR77 said:
If there is a panic in a confined location like a movie theater that could have been a problem, but this happened in an open field.
Assuming people could run in the mud where would they go ?

Yes. Mary did foretell the coming of World War II.

“The war (World War I) is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.”

The prophecy about the sign of another coming war was fulfilled Jan. 25, 1938. The night was illumined by a strange light that stretched from the north pole to as far south as the Adriatic. The newspapers around the world reported it, but were unable to explain it, except by saying that the Aurora Borealis was going nuts. And less than two months later, on March 13 of that year Hitler invaded Austria.

Historians disagree on when to date the beginning of World War II. Many will use the date of September 1939, when Germany invaded Poland. However, a good argument could be made that it began when Hitler invaded Austria in March of 1938.

This was very important to Hitler and his claims for greatness. He compared Germany’s role then with the Holy Roman Empire, which lasted from the crowning of King Charlemagne as Emperor on 25 December AD 800 until its dissolution in 1806. The head of the House of Habsburg was often elected as the Holy Roman Emperor. And the dynastic capital of Habsburg Monarchy was Vienna Austria.

The second great era of German rule was by Otto von Bismarck. It lasted from 1871 till 1918.

Hitler began what he called the Third Reich, or the Third Reign. This term was meant to show the continuity of German greatness with these two previous periods. And according to Nazi propaganda it was to last 1,000 years like the First Reich, or First Reign, that began with Charlemagne.

With the militarily forced annexation of Austria, the Third Reich of Germany began its global domination of foreign countries.

This unknown light in the sky which foretold the coming of this horrible war, WWII, was reported in The New York Times less than two months before World War II was to begin.

See The New York Times
January 26, 1938, Page 25

Read more and see photo of newspaper at

defendingthebride.com/ss/day/index.html

.
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Isn’t that a contradiction then?

Nearing the end of the miracle the mud was supposed to be dried…but now your argument is that they couldn’t easily run because of the wet mud?

But the mud was supposed to be dried when the sun was falling and people thought it was the end of the world…

So…your argument that they couldn’t run because of mud is contradicting the dried mud miracle.
 
I just remembered…people say the crowd couldn’t easily run because of the wet mud making it hard to run.

But the mud was supposed to be dried at the end of the miracle…that is,when people thought it was the end of the world.

The dried mud miracle then makes it easier to run since the mud isn’t wet,it has been hardened and dried.

And people could even take a photograph of the sun there…if journalists could use their cameras to take photographs of the sun…then that means they weren’t frozen from fear enough not to move…

Making it possible to also panic and run…

The question why the crowd didn’t panic and run still remains unsolved…
 
I just read a few of the testimonies from Wikipedia of the fatima miracle…and…people actually panicked:

"I feel incapable of describing what I saw.

I looked fixedly at the sun, which seemed pale and did not hurt my eyes. Looking like a ball of snow, revolving on itself, it suddenly seemed to come down in a zig-zag, menacing the earth.

Terrified, I ran and hid myself among the people, who were weeping and expecting the end of the world at any moment." — Rev. Joaquim Lourenço, describing his boyhood experience in Alburitel, eighteen kilometers from Fatima

So this testimony seems to indicate people could easily run…

So…this makes the question why people didn’t panic and run and even hurt or kill people even bigger and more mysterious…
 
NormalBeliever said:
Isn’t that a contradiction then?
…
So…your argument that they couldn’t run because of mud is contradicting the dried mud miracle.
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No. There is no contradiction in my post about Fatima.
Please read it AGAIN.

No. You misstated my “argument.” Please read it AGAIN.

I did not say the mud would have prevented them from running. It would have made it harder to run fast and be a hazard to others.

Timeline:
  1. Rain. They get soaked.
  2. Vision of Miracle, sun.
  3. For the most part is was after the vision is over when they realized their clothes and ground was dry. During the vision itself they were most concerned about what God was revealing through this message.
If they thought it was the end of the world, Where NormalBeliever, would You imagine it be safe to go ?

My point, which you obviously missed, was that this happened in an open field. Even if there was a place to go to escape the end of the world, or the Sun coming to the earth, and even if the people who thought that they might soon meet their Creator had decided to ignore and insult their Creator by running from this heavenly vision He had just given to them, they would not, according to your proposed speculation of wanting to insult God, run and panic, etc., run in the same direction or to the same place.

Panic can be a problem when people all run in the same direction and a mob by the force of its numbers tramples a few in a confined space like a small doorway in a movie theater.
NormalBeliever said:
So…this makes the question why people didn’t panic and run and even hurt or kill people even bigger and more mysterious…
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NO. Not at all. The real mystery is why you want to focus on trivial and endless speculations and not do the important thing of focusing on giving your heart to Jesus through Mary.

Idle speech and thoughts will take you to hell. The Truth will take you to heaven.

see
defendingthebride.com/ss/pope/

.
 
boomerang said:
Thank you for more information. Did your great grandmother see the Holy Family in the sky herself? I have never heard that anyone, other than the seers, actually saw any heavenly visitors.
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She saw human shapes in the sun, but could not discern any faces. She beleaved it was the Sacred Family because she heard other people saying it in the crowd.
 
boomerang said:
Wow. I wish I had seen it. 😃
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You and me both. I was told to keep my personal experiences under secrecy, but to see Our Lord, the Blessed Virgin and the Foster father of Our Lord…must’ve been one major emotion.
 
maryj said:
Others have also experienced this same phenomena…Including Pope Pius Xll at the vatican in 1950. markmallett.com/blog/fatima-and-the-great-shaking/
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I am not sure what to make of this web site. He references : Vassula Ryden

See
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=763674&highlight=Vassula+Ryden

To clarify, in my previous post I only meant to point out a Potential problem with speculation. I did not mean to pass judgement on any specific behavior or speculation.

.
Sorry, I did not word that better…

John
 
JohnR77 said:
I am not sure what to make of this web site. He references : Vassula Ryden

See
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=763674&highlight=Vassula+Ryden

To clarify, in my previous post I only meant to point out a Potential problem with speculation. I did not mean to pass judgement on any specific behavior or speculation.

.
Sorry, I did not word that better…

John
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markmallett.com/blog/your-questions-on-the-era/ Did you read this, it is a link in the footnotes?
 
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