Smithsonian statement on Book of Mormon

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mormon fool:
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We (mormons, though everyone is invited) read the BOM because it shows that the Bible does not contain the fullness of God’s word. I would say a major purpose of the BoM is that God hasn’t ceased delivering his words.

Besided Jacob 2 for polygamy, these other subjects receive very little treatment in the Book of Mormon.

Later,
fool
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Are’nt these statements contradictory to the Book of Mormon? The Book of Mormon itself states (contained in the introduction): “It is a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the America’s and contains, AS DOES THE BIBLE, THE FULLNESS OF THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL.”

Polygamy is totally condemned in the Book of Mormon, which calls it “whoredoms” (Jacob 2:26-27, Jacob 1:15, Jacob 3:5 and Ether 10:5-7).
 
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catholic-rcia:
My way of reasoning, thinking comes by way of the Trinity and of course my fallen nature thrown in. I believe this is the great divide between the way you see things, to the way I see things. If I am right about anything I am right about Christ. I feel comfortable in relinquishing my center to His.

What aspects of what I write lead you to believe that you see a difference between me and you with respect to the above statement?

I have a guess as to what it might be, but I suspect it is more a product of how I choose to interact here rather than a product of who I am.

Charity, TOm
 
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Sophie:
Are’nt these statements contradictory to the Book of Mormon? The Book of Mormon itself states (contained in the introduction): “It is a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the America’s and contains, AS DOES THE BIBLE, THE FULLNESS OF THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL.”
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I don’t think so. This is the exact quote I had in mind when I wrote my earlier post. Perhaps a clarification would be in order, though. When the Book of Mormon talks about the word “Gospel”, it is really just talking about the essential doctrines of Christ. These would be teachings related to his resurrection and atonement and the first principles of salvation through him. These include, but not limited to, faith and commitment to Jesus, repentance, baptism etc.

These essential doctrines that can be expounded upon obtain the “gospel” in the more expanded sense. A sense of the word that refers to every doctrine that has currently been revealed. To be absolutely clear, there are two senses of the word “gospel”. The context tells us whether it is being used in its limited sense or expanded sense.
Polygamy is totally condemned in the Book of Mormon, which calls it “whoredoms” (Jacob 2:26-27, Jacob 1:15, Jacob 3:5 and Ether 10:5-7).
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Good catch. While some might debate this, I think the most straightforward reading of Jacob 2:30 implies that polygamy is a whoredom unless it is “otherwise” commanded by the Lord. In other words, there is a rule and an exception. That there is a rule and an exception–when the Lord expressly commands–is the much better read of all scriptures (not just Mormon), IMHO.

I am a big fan of polygamy when it is commanded by God, a big foe in circumstances where it is not. The early mormons should be commended for being faithful in following such a painful commandment. Non-mormon Christians should be commended because they have followed the rule in the absence of of an authority figure capable of receiving a commandment to implement the exception. So-called mormon fundamentalist should not be commended because they violate the authority perogative, at least from my perception.

Later,
fool
 
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catholic-rcia:
When I was speaking about the words used to describe the Great Apostasy I was speaking about the words that your past leaders used when they spoke about it.

The Language used. I was thinking about posting them but decided to ask you first. I want to compare this language used to language used by some of those in the Middle East when they speak against America. In order to show that this kind of language is common when it comes to hate and prejudice. In order to compare its tone with language used by your prophet, the founder of your Church. I would also use 2 other sources besides the Middle east. One being during World war two concerning the Jews. Not to prove that the Catholic Church is the one and only Church, but rather to show a pattern of speech that aligns itself with the dark side of man. A side that we all have within ourselves. It is Christ who has already conquered this evil and not us. He takes care of it all. Would you let me do this? It’s up to you. I could just e-mail it to you instead of posting it here. I am leaving for a day, so I would not get to it until Sunday.

I mentioned the canonized words as those are the words we as LDS believe came from God.

I have read a number of things written by LDS leaders about other religions of which I am not proud. I do not agree with the sentiment expressed and I do declare it wrong. I recognize mitigating factors such as the murder of Joseph Smith supposedly at the hands of such non-LDS Christian folks, such as the more common than not mischaracterization of the beliefs of others, and such as …

In any case, I am never a fan of the providing of statements I am not proud of that reflect negatively upon what I beleive to be God’s church, so if you wish to send them to me in PM that would be fine. Of course you may do as you wish and I have probably seen some or most of them.

Charity, TOm
 
Mormon_fool,
I liked your answer and was about to point back to your post to answer Sophie’s question (which of course is about what you did).
Feel free to post often!
Charity, TOm
 
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TOmNossor:
What aspects of what I write lead you to believe that you see a difference between me and you with respect to the above statement?

I have a guess as to what it might be, but I suspect it is more a product of how I choose to interact here rather than a product of who I am.

Dear Tom,
Let’s speak about who you are. Out of nothing you were created by God. God gives you the greatest gift that nothing, and I do not mean nothing as if nothing is something, I mean in the strict sense “nothing”.

He breathed into you that which He created and gave you life, that which is His very breath. It is through Jesus, Note# - Not the Jesus that is the brother of Lucifer because this would bring Jesus down to a different level, make Jesus out to also be created as we have been created. This would distort the meaning of Gods grace us, placing us on a dangerous path. . This Jesus who is made out to be the brother of Lucifer does not exist in Christianity. There is only one Jesus. that which is the loved in the Godhead that you were made by and for. Why? Because this love is never ending, the Fathers love of Jesus is never ending. Being created by God, and not being God our selves, naturally we seek to become God in our own right. This is why death entered the world. This is what causes every sin in every corner of the world and in every life that has ever been born into it accept for Jesus, because He to is God. Not one in purpose with God, but Rather that which is a certain essence of the Nature of God. The essence of God that comes in contact with us. We call Jesus the Word of God. Because He is of God, because he is the Word of God, His promises remain true in our lives. This contact is by way of the Love between the Son and the father, and the Father and the son. This love is real and is of the essence of God as well, we call this essence of God by many names. It is the Holy Spirit, that love in us that unites us to God through Christ in a very special way. For us as Christians progression is a very human desire. “to attain” We see our lives as a procession to the Cross, where we die to those desires of progression, so that we can unite as One with God, where all this thought of progression will be finally put to rest. What will we do with all that extra (time?) in heaven? We will pray unceasingly through Christ that others can make the right choices so that they to can make it home. There will be lots of praying for others as Gods love is never ending. If we are wrong about the nature of God, we will be wrong in all things. The great joy in heaven is when a lost lamb finds his creator and is able to eternally lie next to Him.
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As I looked through what I have written, I think I must take particular notice when non-LDS say that LDS believe that Jesus is the brother of Lucifer. LDS almost never talk about such things at church or among themselves, but it seems to be a favorite topic of non-LDS.
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catholic-rcia:
Let’s speak about who you are. Out of nothing you were created by God. God gives you the greatest gift that nothing, and I do not mean nothing as if nothing is something, I mean in the strict sense “nothing”.

I guess I can start here. I do not believe this to be true. I do not believe in Creation ex Nihilo.

I suggest that this was not declared by any council until the Fourth Lateran Council.

I suggest that St. Justin Martyr did not believe in Creation ex Nihilo.

I suggest that Clement of Rome did not believe in Creation ex Nihilo.

I suggest that no Christian (and perhaps no Jew) before 100AD believed in Creation ex Nihilo. I will suggest more things shortly.
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catholic-rcia:
He breathed into you that which He created and gave you life, that which is His very breath. It is through Jesus
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Our Spirits that came from God were in fact “breathed” into our bodies which also came from God. Jesus most definitely participated in these actions. Exactly where to draw the line between the actions of the Father and the actions of the Son is neither possible nor necessary since they are one God anyway.
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catholic-rcia:
Note# - Not the Jesus that is the brother of Lucifer because this would bring Jesus down to a different level, make Jesus out to also be created as we have been created. This would distort the meaning of Gods grace us, placing us on a dangerous path. . This Jesus who is made out to be the brother of Lucifer does not exist in Christianity. There is only one Jesus
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First, you are mistaken when you seem to suggest that LDS believe Jesus Christ is some creature. Jesus Christ is coeternal with God the Father. Jesus Christ is the begotten Son of God the Father, but He is coeternal. LDS would not generally use the term “eternally-begotten,” but coeternal is fine.

Second, are you familiar with Lactantius from the 3rd-4th century? I mentioned him to you in a previous post. He was a Christian. You would say a Catholic Christian. And he clearly taught that Lucifer and Jesus were brothers. I am unaware of a council that has condemned him or even specifically this thing he taught. So it is incorrect to say that this does not exist in Christianity. It does in fact exist in the writings of an ECF (not a major player, but far from some inconsequential guy either).

And lastly, I hope you will recognize that the rejection of creation ex nihilo allows for a whole new perspective on these things. In fact were it not for the acceptance of creation ex nihilo (first formulated by a Gnostic philosopher, but ultimately embraced partially in a response to Gnosticism interestingly enough) the Sabellian heresy and the Arian heresy would not have gained so much traction. The latter virtually overtaking orthodoxy in that it was MUCH more widely accepted at one point in time by theologians than the orthodox position (I understand Cardinal Newman suggests that the laity was largely responsible for rescuing the church from Arianism because the authorities had largely accepted it). The component of creation ex nihilo that I find so disturbing is that it makes God the author of all evil. If there was once only God and he created beings who choose evil, surely he is responsible for all the (name removed by moderator)uts that resulted in this choice (every piece of data, every experience of these beings, every neurological connection, every (name removed by moderator)ut bar none; and unless you compromise God’s omnipotence as I believe Alvin Plantinga does, God ceased to be omnibenevolent as I see it).

cont…
 
It is easy to make LDS belief in Christ being the brother of Lucifer sound like some horror, but we still believe Christ is God. We still believe Christ is a member of the Trinity (as we formulate it). We still believe He atoned for our sins, died on the cross, rose from the dead, and …. And we still believe that we receive eternal life through no other. I think the similarities are more important, but I think that if both structures are fully examined the structure that stems from Creation ex Nihilo results in greater difficulties than does the LDS structure.

As always the above part (which I choose to comment on) and the rest of your post as it highlighted Catholic beliefs are quite beautiful. But I do not see the concepts represented by them as being more beautiful than those represented by the true aspects of the gospel as I see it. That is not a huge indicator of truth, but it is perhaps a component.

Charity, TOm
 
I think this is where I am going to part ways with you Tom. Scripture tells me very clearly where Christ is creator of all things, where God is Creator of all things. I am very content with being created from nothing, into something very special in the eyes of my creator. This works very well for me. All Glory to God.

God bless

Rich
 
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catholic-rcia:
I think this is where I am going to part ways with you Tom. Scripture tells me very clearly where Christ is creator of all things, where God is Creator of all things. I am very content with being created from nothing, into something very special in the eyes of my creator. This works very well for me. All Glory to God.
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I was not trying to offend you.

Christ is the creator of all things according to all Bible believing Christians I know, we agree here. The question is did He create from nothing. From scripture alone, Catholic scholars even support my position that this is not delineated in scripture.

You as a Catholic are in alignment with Catholic beliefs, and I agree they serve you quite well.

When you see the Trinity working in my life, I agree, but I do not think it is calling me out of the CoJCoLDS. There are strengths in both of our beliefs structures. Part of me recognizes the possibility that the Catholic Church may be God’s path for you. I am ok with this. I just wish what I know to be God’s path for me was not so easily dismissed by those who see things differently. Part of this wish is surely pride, but part of this wish derives from a desire for Christians to stand guard on the walls of the castle rather than fight amongst ourselves.

Charity, TOm
 
I am back. I just do not have time to keep doing this. (With a gentle smile) I would love nothing more. I just do not have the time. I would never say to you, Tom you are in the wrong place. Because where you are will get you to where you will end up. I have no idea where this will be. Only God does. But I have a notion that it will all turn out good for you. As to where I am right now I believe that I will always know in my heart and soul who the Christ is. I do believe that God can create out of nothing because he is God. Material things, even dirt was created By Him. Even nothing was created by Him, even though it is nothing. I guess that this is the reason I beleive in Miracles. For me the Mass is a daily miracle. So I get to see them often, and be part of them.

I want to ask you one more time if I can place the language used by your Church leaders and your prophet when it comes to the Apostasy. .

The first chapter of Hebrews shows that Jesus is the creator, not a created angel, this is sound scripture. Satan not only wants others to think that He is the brother of Jesus. At times he wants us to believe that he is the Christ. If he can get us to believe that we have to somehow work toward salvation by our own measure he can in the end win a soul.

Hebrews 1:2—[God] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;…

Hebrews 1:4-5—[Jesus] Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

At the end of the world Satan and the rest of the fallen angels will be cast down to hell:

Jude 1:6—And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

In 2 Peter 2:4 we read:

… God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Continued_
 
Below is a quote from Nelson’s New Illustrated Bible Dictionary:

DEVIL

(accuser)—the main title for the **fallen angelic being **who is the supreme enemy of God and man. Satan is his name, and devil is what he is—the accuser or deceiver. The title “devil” appears 35 times in the NKJV. In every case it is preceded by the article “the,” indicating a title rather than a name. The term comes from a Greek word that means “a false witness” or “malicious accuser.”

Several descriptive phrases applied to the devil in the New Testament point out the nature of his wicked personality and the extent of his evil deeds.

That Serpent of Old (Rev. 12:9; 20:2). The devil worked through the serpent to tempt Eve (Gen. 3:1-6).

The Wicked or Evil One (Matt. 6:13; 13:19,38; 1 John 2:13). This phrase depicts the devil’s fundamental nature. He is in direct opposition to everything God is or all he wishes to do. …

Enemy (Matt. 13:25,28,39). The devil is man’s worst enemy. … He is an enemy of Christ, the church, and the gospel; and he is tireless in his efforts to uproot good and sow evil.

Murderer* *(John 8:44). “He was a murderer from the beginning” are strong words from the lips of Jesus. The devil killed Abel and the prophets, and he wanted to kill Jesus before His time (8:40).

Deceiver (Rev. 20:10). Starting with Eve, the devil has attempted to deceive every living soul. Evil men operating under the power of the evil one will continue to deceive (2 Tim. 3:13).

Beelzebub, the Ruler of the Demons (Matt. 9:34; 12:24). Beelzebub (see also 2 Kin. 1:2-3, 6, 16) means literally “lord of Flies” and is a title of ridicule. The religious leaders of Jesus’ time were guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit because they claimed the miracles of Jesus were actually conducted by the devil. … There are many demons but only one devil. His name is Beelzebub, the chief leader of the fallen angels known as demons.

Ruler of This World (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11). Three times Jesus called the devil the “ruler of this world.” The devil offered the world to Jesus if He would worship him (Luke 4:5-7), but the Lord refused with these words, “Get behind me Satan” (4:8). At Calvary God dealt a death blow to this world ruler. It is only a matter of time before God will win the final victory at the end of time (1 John 3:8; Matt. 25:41; Rev. 12:7).

The battle is not over but for Christians we know the final score.
All Glory to God, all Glory to Jesus through the Holy Spirit “All”
 
This is not easy…

Apostle George Cannon preached that Christ, Satan and all the mortals born on this earth are actually brothers and sisters from a pre-earth life:
We are here to be tested (tested? What’s that mean?) and tried. There is a war between Satan and God. We are brethren and sisters of Satan as well as of Jesus. (?) It may be startling doctrine to many to say this; but Satan is our brother. (yes it is) Jesus is our brother. We are the children of God. God begot us in the spirit in the eternal worlds. This fight that I speak of arose, as we are told, over the question as to how man should work out his earthly probation in a tabernacle of flesh and bones and **obtain (**the cross of Christ already did this) redemption. Satan differed from God, and he rebelled. We are told in the scriptures that he drew after him one third of the family of God. They thought his plan better than that of the Savior Jesus (familiar?) Christ. From that time until the present he has been struggling to destroy the plans of Jehovah, and to seduce the children of men—his brothers and sisters—from their allegiance to God.
(I beleive my allegiance is found in the Sacrament confession)

(Apostle George Q. Cannon, March 11th, 1894, Collected Discourses, compiled by Brian Stuy, vol. 4, p. 23,)

This is very telling Tom when you look through my eyes, eyes given by my creator.

In all humility, as I wrote the following I had a very large chill go through my spine. You have the wrong brother Tom. There is only one Son.

God Bless
I hope is was God who had me come back. I really was not going to.
www.catholic-rcia.com
 
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TOmNossor:
When you see the Trinity working in my life, I agree, but I do not think it is calling me out of the CoJCoLDS. There are strengths in both of our beliefs structures. Part of me recognizes the possibility that the Catholic Church may be God’s path for you. I am ok with this. I just wish what I know to be God’s path for me was not so easily dismissed by those who see things differently. Part of this wish is surely pride, but part of this wish derives from a desire for Christians to stand guard on the walls of the castle rather than fight amongst ourselves.

Charity, TOm
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Ah, a clear-thinking relativist. And when you say Trinity, you do not mean the Christian Trinity – you mean a polytheistic, three-god ensemble that you call a ‘trinity.’ It’s so hard for a man who believes he’s going to be a god and rule over his own planet and have endless sex with his goddess wives and produce countless spirit children to give that up, huh? Believe whatever you wish, Tom, but don’t call it Christian.

JMJ Jay
 
TOmNossor wrote:
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are you familiar with Lactantius from the 3rd-4th century? I mentioned him to you in a previous post. He was a Christian. You would say a Catholic Christian. And he clearly taught that Lucifer and Jesus were brothers. I am unaware of a council that has condemned him or even specifically this thing he taught. So it is incorrect to say that this does not exist in Christianity. It does in fact exist in the writings of an ECF (not a major player, but far from some inconsequential guy either).Provide your source(s), please. I want to read this for myself.

JMJ Jay
 
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catholic-rcia:
Because where you are will get you to where you will end up. I have no idea where this will be. Only God does. But I have a notion that it will all turn out good for you.
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I have a similar notion for both of us.
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catholic-rcia:
Material things, even dirt was created By Him. Even nothing was created by Him, even though it is nothing. I guess that this is the reason I beleive in Miracles.
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Of course I believe this too.
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catholic-rcia:
I want to ask you one more time if I can place the language used by your Church leaders and your prophet when it comes to the Apostasy.
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I think I said before that you can send it to me in PM or you can post it. I am thankful that we do not speak as we once did about non-LDS Christians, but I am pretty familiar with the things/types of things said. It seems likely to me that Catholics especially such as yourself are happy that the things said about non-Catholic Christian/non-orthodox Christians are not spoken frequently any longer.
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catholic-rcia:
The first chapter of Hebrews shows that Jesus is the creator, not a created angel, this is sound scripture. Satan not only wants others to think that He is the brother of Jesus. At times he wants us to believe that he is the Christ. If he can get us to believe that we have to somehow work toward salvation by our own measure he can in the end win a soul.
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I am pretty convinced that my concept of Salvation/Justification is solidly in line with the Catholic Church. Truth be told your emphasis upon NOT “work[ing] toward salvation,” (without proper qualification of said words) could be outside the spectrum of Catholic beliefs. I am perfectly comfortable with the statement, “we perform no works that contribute to our salvation,” but I usually qualify said statement by explaining that it is critical that we choose to allow Christ to work through us. It is this choice of Christ that leads to Salvation/Justification (which is a process), not just faith/belief in Christ.

The scriptures you quoted sound very LDS to me. Eternal-begetting while not necessarily a problem within LDS theology is difficult to derive from the scriptures you quoted. Also, the devil not keeping his first estate, is solidly LDS. Who kept their first estate? What is the second estate?

I recognize you have little time. If you are uncomfortable with the way we leave this thread, you may respond and ask me to PM you my response instead of posting. Then there will be no loose LDS ends on this thread.

Charity, TOm
 
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catholic-rcia:
This is very telling Tom when you look through my eyes, eyes given by my creator.
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In all humility, as I wrote the following I had a very large chill go through my spine. You have the wrong brother Tom. There is only one Son.

The other choice is difficult too don’t you think.

The omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God created Satan from God’s creative power and nothing else.

God did not require Satan to choose one way or another, but every (name removed by moderator)ut Satan had when he choose to rebel against God came from God. Satan’s nature was from God and nothing else. Satan’s thought processes stemmed from God and nothing else. Satan’s forming experiences came from God and nothing else. Satan’s hopes and desires came from God and nothing else.

And more than this, traditional understanding of omniscience demands that God knew Satan’s choice from the second God breathed life into Satan. God could see how all the (name removed by moderator)uts that came solely from God would lead to but one outcome, Satan’s rebellion, condemnation, and a similar fate for untold other angels and men.

LDS theology does not suffer from the above problem. Satan is responsible for Satan’s choices. Misery while foreknown by an omniscient God is the only way to turn non-creato-ex-Nihilo beings into all that God wishes us to be. Our pain is but for a small instant, but it is a product of our choice and who we are not solely God’s doing.

I see some beauty in the way you formulate Creation ex Nihilo. I readily admit that LDS almost never mention Jesus Christ and Satan are brothers and I think it is a pity that our critics do so frequently. You would almost never have such a chill go down your spine if you did not seek such statements most likely from websites that preserve them to use them against the CoJCoLDS.

But I consider creation ex matria to not only be a possible read of the Bible, but to be a better read of the Bible. I can point to Catholic priest, Father Jaki, as support for some of this Biblical exegesis. And I consider creation ex matria as a far superior foundation upon which to build a theodicy than is creation ex nihilo.

Charity, TOm
 
But I consider creation ex matria to not only be a possible read of the Bible, but to be a better read of the Bible. I can point to Catholic priest, Father Jaki, as support for some of this Biblical exegesis. And I consider creation ex matria as a far superior foundation upon which to build a theodicy than is creation ex nihilo.
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The superiority of creation ex nihilo comes from the fact that it is true. Catholicism is true. Mormonism is not.

Please provide Father Jaki’s quotations and their source, which you claim support your “biblical exegesis.”

JMJ Jay
 
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Katholikos:
Ah, a clear-thinking relativist. And when you say Trinity, you do not mean the Christian Trinity – you mean a polytheistic, three-god ensemble that you call a ‘trinity.’ It’s so hard for a man who believes he’s going to be a god and rule over his own planet and have endless sex with his goddess wives and produce countless spirit children to give that up, huh? Believe whatever you wish, Tom, but don’t call it Christian.
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Concerning being a relativist, I know that the CoJCoLDS is God’s church on the earth. I know that God has called me to it. What I do not know is how my Catholic friend can feel called to the Catholic Church. God has not revealed this to me. Since LDS like Catholics have concepts such as “invisible church” and “baptism of desire,” and since God has chosen not to reveal to me that everyone who does not become a LDS in this life is headed for less than God desires for them; I choose to recognize the possibility that some are served optimally by a set of truths that is less complete (than the incomplete set that I embrace).

If you choose to reject concepts such as the “invisible church” and “baptism of desire,” there is an organization that might suit you well. The Society of Saint Pius X is my favorite, but there are also some sedavacantist groups who I think are even farther astray from the body of the Catholic Church.

Concerning the Trinity:

Perhaps it would be best that you allow me to define what I mean. I explained my concept of the Trinity earlier in this thread. It was no more polytheistic than your concept of the Trinity. I have linked to Blake Ostler’s essay on this, it is no more polytheistic than the ideas held by the majority of non-modalist Christians.

Concerning deification:

Your characteristic of LDS deification is again done for effect. Truth be told, LDS do not know exactly how deification will work and in the last many years it has only been our critics who present our views the way you do. I suggest that you recognize that by making us look weird and ugly you will strengthen your position. I suggest you recognize you need to do this because your position is not as strong as you might like. If you choose to engage me upon the things that I do in fact embrace you would find like former Catholic priest Father Vajda (now LDS) that the CoJCoLDS has quite a strong foundation (especially as it relates to deification), but I think you will instead quote from past LDS leaders and other non-canonized and/or non-current things. This is quite similar to what Protestants do to you. And I think the reason is the same in their case too.

Now, because you asked, and because Catholic_RCIA suggested that no Christian could think like this, not because this shows what Catholic can and must believe/defend; I will provide you with you Lactantius quote. Because it is more interesting and may deflect some concerns let me quote it from a modern (somewhat modern) Catholic author.

Catholic scholar Giovanni Papini quotes and comments on the writings of the early Christian Lactantius:

“Before creating the world, God produced a spirit like Himself, replete with the virtues of the Father. Later he made another, in whom the mark of divine origin was erased, because this one was besmirched by the poison of jealousy and turned therefore from good to evil… He was jealous of his older Brother who, remaining united with his Father, insured his affection unto himself. This being who from god became bad is called Devil by the Greeks.”

[Papini comments:] According to Lactantius, Lucifer would have been nothing less than the brother of the Logos… The elder spirit, filled with every divine virtue and beloved by God above all other spirits, can easily be recognized as Word, that think that the other Spirit, also endowed with every grace, was the second son of the Father: the future Satan would be, no less, the younger brother of the future Christ. (The Devil [NY:E.P. Dutton & Co., 1954], 81-82; original Lactantius, Divine Institutes II, 9)

Charity, TOm
 
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