Smoking a Sin??

[SHEMP]

Sherlock:

Your post has me somewhat confused

I agree with your concerns about the moral decay of society. I am not sure that this really has anything to do with trying to determine how much cigarette smoking might be considered “moderate”.

I agree that being obsessively concerned with health can in fact be unhealthy. I think that this is unhealthy when this leads you to act in ways that inhibit your spiritual growth. There are people that obsessively run or work out in order to get their body in some sort of shape that they perceive as making them a better person. This may in fact be a detriment to their spiritual growth.

I have more difficulty seeing how serious reflection on tobacco use can be described as similarly “unhealthly”. I agree that there are many people that started to smoke cigarettes without giving this type of action a second thought. They started when they were young. They are physically and psychologically dependent. This type of dependence (or excess) of the body and mind is not sinful when done out of ignorance. In the current day, when the dangers of cigarette smoking are recognized by nearly all, then addiction to cigarettes (excessive use) is more difficult to excuse based on the argument of ignorance. One can certainly smoke cigarettes moderately but I am arguing that this is nearly impossible for the average person.

It is easy to justify disrespect for the body by claiming revolt from a culture that is obsessively fixated on health. My point is that often this argument is used as an excuse to continue doing something that a person knows is not good for them. It is only after the well known consequences hit that they look back and regret their actions. Suddenly the fearlessness changes to fear and even terror.

I am a medical oncologist. I have known more people who have died in my short life than most people will know in a lifetime. I talk to them about their feeling about death. It is rare to find a defiantly proud smoker who has lung cancer. Almost all feel that they did something that was stupid.

I wake up at 4:30 am five days per week so that I can do 30 minutes on the stairmaster as I listen to a 30 minute tape on spirituality. I then take a cold shower. I feel refreshed and I am ready to meet a new day head on with all of the suffering and difficulties. Cigarette smoking would certainly deminish my ability to live a spiritual life to the fullest. It is hard for me not to pray that every addicted smoker can see the light.

 

[DrCat]

When I came back to the Church, the priest who gave me my final instructions and heard my first confession told me “while smoking is not a sin, it should be.” I still remember that 20+ years later.

As an ex-4-pack-a-day smoker, I think it is. I don’t really believe that there is a really “moderate” smoker.

John (an ex-smoker for the past 15+ years)

 

[Sherlock]

DrCat,

You wrote: " I don’t really believe that there is a really “moderate” smoker."

I think they are certainly rare, but they do exist. A good friend of mine smokes only occasionally, perhaps a few cigarettes in the evening following dinner—and not every night. When she goes on vacations, or attends social events, she doesn’t smoke at all. Nor does she smoke in the winter, as she won’t smoke indoors and doesn’t care to stand outside in a Minnesota winter just to have a cigarette. I think that qualifies as a “moderate smoker”.

 

[dcs]

DrCat:

I don’t really believe that there is a really “moderate” smoker.

Perhaps not among cigarette smokers, but moderate cigar- and pipe smokers are not uncommon.

 

[SHEMP]

Sherlock:

I think they are certainly rare, but they do exist. A good friend of mine smokes only occasionally, perhaps a few cigarettes in the evening following dinner—and not every night. When she goes on vacations, or attends social events, she doesn’t smoke at all. Nor does she smoke in the winter, as she won’t smoke indoors and doesn’t care to stand outside in a Minnesota winter just to have a cigarette. I think that qualifies as a “moderate smoker”.

I had a number of friends in college who only smoked when they went out to the bars. They were almost exclusively women. After college at least two of these friends became daily smokers. It turned out that they were smoking more in college than they admitted at the time. Both said that they would stop when they got pregnant. One hasn’t married and has not been pregnant (than I know of). She of course is a heavy smoker. The other recently got married and as far as I know she still smokes.

I get to ask people personal question in the privacy of the doctor’s exam room. You would be amazed at how many closet smokers there are out there. Little do their friends know.

 

[j_arden]

agname:

Saints aren’t sinless…no one is.

Actually…there are a few (ie sinless individuals)…but, I can count them on one hand.

A few? As in at least three? I can come up with two. Who else do you think is/was sinless?

 

[Sherlock]

Shemp,

You wrote: “I agree with your concerns about the moral decay of society. I am not sure that this really has anything to do with trying to determine how much cigarette smoking might be considered “moderate”.”

First, the main thrust of my post was not the moral decay of society. My observation was that obsession with physical health was, among other possibilities, an expression of a secular society concerned solely with the body.

Secondly, you are right: this has nothing to do with trying to determine how much cigarette smoking might be considered “moderate”. Since it was not my intention to determine that, my posts will shed no light on that topic. I’ll leave that for individuals with common sense to figure out for themselves. I’m just not going to call it a mortal sin since the Catechism doesn’t.

You wrote: "I have more difficulty seeing how serious reflection on tobacco use can be described as similarly “unhealthly”.

I never said that serious reflection on tobacco use is unhealthy. What I do see as unhealthy are the attempts to define all tobacco use as mortal sin, an intrinsic evil. The Catechism does not state that all tobacco use is evil, anymore than it states that not exercising on a regular basis is evil. When, in spite of this, one desires to label other people as mortal sinners because they engage in something one doesn’t personally like, I’d say that that is spiritually unhealthy. It also might be an indication of something psychologically unhealthy in that person: why do they feel the need to control others? Do they feel a sense of powerlessness that is lessened by their crusading?

You wrote: “It is easy to justify disrespect for the body by claiming revolt from a culture that is obsessively fixated on health. My point is that often this argument is used as an excuse to continue doing something that a person knows is not good for them.”

You’re right about that. I don’t disagree, nor do I think that my post was justifying disrespect for the body. I am in agreement with the Catechism, which doesn’t justify disrespect for the body either.

As I mentioned before, I’m not a smoker (nor do I play one on TV). I am merely intolerant of the intolerance shown to those who do.

Sherlock

 

[Sherlock]

Shemp,

You wrote: “I get to ask people personal question in the privacy of the doctor’s exam room. You would be amazed at how many closet smokers there are out there. Little do their friends know.”

I have no doubt that what you say is true. However, in the case of my good friend, her husband (a non-smoker) will attest to her smoking habits. They are retired, and are almost always together, so he knows how much she smokes.

Moderate cigarette smokers do exist, though they are rare.

 

[agname]

dcs:

Homosexual behavior is intrinsically evil and is a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance. You cannot possibly compare smoking to buggery.

As far as pot is concerned, I don’t think it is any more dangerous than alcohol and it ought to be legal for both medical and recreational purposes. (Of course we are bound to obey the law as it stands now since the law itself is not unjust – unless perhaps you’re a cancer patient.)

Tobacco isn’t remotely like heroin or cocaine. People don’t leave their kids in hot cars with the windows rolled up to go and smoke a cigarette.

Dcs…re-read my post again slowly.

 

[agname]

j_arden:

A few? As in at least three? I can come up with two. Who else do you think is/was sinless?

Re-read my post again slowly.

And see the dictionary…

Main Entry: few
1 : a small number of units or individuals
2 : a special limited number

 

[kamz]

I don’t have a problem with people smoking as long as they don’t do it in the car or house when children are present and if they do get cancer that is from smoking then they get cancer from smoking. I just don’t like to hear people like my friends mom who has had recurrent lung cancer then goes into remission, moan and groan how really its not her fault that she can’t quit smoking but she deserves a lung transplant so she can live longer and yes, keep right on smoking, what is that all about? Smoke your life away just don’t expect anyone to feel bad when it does kill you. My husband was a pack a day smoker and when I became pregnant with our first child 11 years ago, I said, quit or go outside for all smoking, you will NEVER smoke in our car or our home ever again, well, he thought about it for a week and decided he would go with the cold turkey plan, and he was a hard smoker, 14 years 1 pack everyday if not more and he quit cold turkey, he chose a quit day, and has not had a smoke in 11 years, it was hard and he was very cranky for one week but it was well worth it and now the smell of smoke makes him sick and I mean sick as in needs to puke sick, it is possible to quit if you really want to.
So maybe its not a sin but I can’t believe its What God would want us to do either, slowly kill ourselves?

 

[j_arden]

Some of the scrupulosity found in this thread is outstanding! Who says Catholics are laissez faire about morality?

The standard of “unhealthy = sinful” is untenable. If anyone can hold tight to this and not fall into scrupulosity or obsession, please explain how this can be done. “Health” is a relative term and “unhealthy” is even more relative because it is negatively defined. Just because we can confidently label some things “healthy,” e.g. regular exercise, broccoli, etc., and others “unhealthy,” e.g. cocaine use during one’s formative years, doesn’t mean the definitions are always clear.

One of the accidents of human nature that I always get a kick out of is how we can be so sure that we are right. Sometimes we’re right and sometimes we’re wrong, but no matter if a right answer to a question exists or not, you can always find two people with different answers that are positive they are right. I’m always shocked when I realize I’ve been doing this. When I finally acknowledge I might not be right about something–an event that is becoming more and more common!–the surety I was just holding so tightly can seem so foreign.

 

[j_arden]

agname:

Re-read my post again slowly.

And see the dictionary…

Main Entry: few
1 : a small number of units or individuals
2 : a special limited number

Snippy, snippy. You can save the condescension. I think it’s not too ridiculous to think “a few countable on one hand” could mean three to five.

Let me rephrase my question: Jesus and His mother were sinless. Do you think there have been others? If so, whom?

 

[agname]

Interesting reads…

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2221919.stm

cbc.ca/stories/2003/08/11/lung_cancer030811

healthday.com/view.cfm?id=513954

my.webmd.com/content/article/79/96239.htm?lastselectedguid=%7B5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348%7D

thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/10565904?source=Evening%20Standard

telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xml=/health/2003/06/18/hsmokefact.xml&sSheet=/health/2003/06/18/ixhright.html

familydoctor.org/x1923.xml

An interesting read…

Study shows ignorance of smoking hazards, Secondhand exposure cited as big problem

By RACHEL KOVAC KnoxNews [7/01/03]

Almost half of Tennesseans have smoked at least 100 cigarettes in their lifetime, according to a new survey released Monday by the Tennessee Department of Health.

Results from this 2002 Adult Tobacco Survey have prompted the Department of Health to take a new look at tobacco prevention programs and policies.

Tennessee was one of three states selected by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to conduct a pilot study that asks questions about tobacco use and attitudes, beliefs and social influences regarding smoking.

What the survey found was that many people don’t know the dangers of secondhand smoke and smokers continue to smoke around other people, including children.

“It’s not news to us that we have a problem with tobacco in Tennessee,” said Vicki Casenburg, Knox County Tobacco Prevention and Reduction coordinator. “The reason this study is important to us in tobacco control is that it brings to light that secondhand smoke exposure remains a common problem.”

Casenburg said the average person does not understand how dangerous secondhand smoke is, and lots of Knoxvillians smoke. In December 2001 the CDC ranked Knoxville second among metropolitan areas in number of smokers, with 30.5 percent of resident interviewed saying they smoked.

“Exposure to secondhand smoke is really something that we are trying to make people aware of,” Casenburg said. “More people die from exposure to secondhand smoke than murder, drugs and AIDS combined.”

The state survey revealed that 36 percent of households in the state allow smoking in the home and 22 percent approve of smoking anywhere in the house. Of current smokers, 83 percent who live with children reported that smoking is allowed anywhere.

Children of smoking parents can inhale the equivalent of 102 packs of cigarettes by age 5, according to research on exposure to environmental tobacco smoke, Cassen said.

About 40 percent of all those surveyed did not know that breathing secondhand smoke causes heart disease in adults.

“These survey results reinforce the need to educate Tennesseans, and especially those who are parents, on the dangers of secondhand smoke,” said Joan Sartin, director of the state Tobacco Control Program. “Environmental tobacco smoke contains at least 250 chemicals known to be toxic or cause cancer.”

The survey also showed that people who work indoors reported that smoking still occurs in some or all common areas, and about 6 percent said there was no official smoking policy.

With all this information, the Department of Health wants to educate Tennesseans. It estimates for every dollar invested in smoking prevention programs, about $14 are saved in future costs.

But Cassenburg said it is hard to talk about prevention programs when there is no funding for tobacco prevention.

“One of the obstacles we face in tobacco prevention is funding,” she said. “There is no funding in Tennessee. The money is being used to balance the budget and not to fix the problem.”

Almost 2,500 adults participated in the random telephone survey, and the results were weighted to reflect the age, sex and race of Tennessee’s population.

Rachel Kovac may be reached at 865-342-6271.

 

[agname]

Tobacco Biggest Single Cause of Cancer: Expert

By Patricia Reaney. Reuters [05/17/01] Tobacco Biggest Single Cause of Cancer: Expert

LONDON (Reuters) - Many of the world’s six million cancer deaths each year could be prevented if
people stopped smoking and lost weight, a leading British scientist said on Wednesday.

Tobacco is the biggest single cause of cancer and accounts for more than half of all cancer deaths in
smokers. In non-smokers, 10% of cancer deaths in America and 7% in Europe are linked to being
overweight.

``In terms of public health, the most important aspect is smoking. If you give up smoking, even late in
life, it will have a big effect on mortality,’’ Professor Julian Peto told a news conference.

``About 60% of all cancer deaths in smokers are caused by smoking, and smoking causes as many
deaths from other diseases as it does from cancer. It is absurd for smokers in the West to worry about
anything except stopping smoking,’’ he said.

LUNG CANCER

Peto estimates up to three-quarters of cancers in smokers can be avoided if people quit, and the
sooner the better.

Smoking is the leading cause of lung cancer and also contributes to stomach, liver, cervical, pancreatic,
bladder and kidney cancers.

 

[agname]

j_arden:

Snippy, snippy. You can save the condescension. I think it’s not too ridiculous to think “a few countable on one hand” could mean three to five.

Let me rephrase my question: Jesus and His mother were sinless. Do you think there have been others? If so, whom?

Snippy? It’s straight forward.

And give yourself a cookie.

 

[Sherlock]

j_arden,

Very well put!

The standard of “unhealthy = sinful” is untenable. If anyone can hold tight to this and not fall into scrupulosity or obsession, please explain how this can be done. “Health” is a relative term and “unhealthy” is even more relative because it is negatively defined. Just because we can confidently label some things “healthy,” e.g. regular exercise, broccoli, etc., and others “unhealthy,” e.g. cocaine use during one’s formative years, doesn’t mean the definitions are always clear.

 

[agname]

Sherlock:

j_arden,

Very well put!

The standard of “unhealthy = sinful” is untenable. If anyone can hold tight to this and not fall into scrupulosity or obsession, please explain how this can be done. “Health” is a relative term and “unhealthy” is even more relative because it is negatively defined. Just because we can confidently label some things “healthy,” e.g. regular exercise, broccoli, etc., and others “unhealthy,” e.g. cocaine use during one’s formative years, doesn’t mean the definitions are always clear.

It’s very clear…if one knows the facts of smoking (ie, that even in moderation it destroys the human body)…and one knows they’re addicted and do not care, etc…then it is a mortal sin.

 

[Sherlock]

agname,

Why are you so obsessed about this? If you don’t want to smoke, then don’t. I don’t smoke, but I wouldn’t consider it a mortal sin if I suddenly decided I wished to. You obviously think it is, in contradiction of the Catechism. My question is: who died and gave you the powers of binding and loosing?

 

[Sherlock]

agname,

You wrote: “It’s very clear…if one knows the facts of smoking (ie, that even in moderation it destroys the human body)…and one knows they’re addicted and do not care, etc…then it is a mortal sin.”

Funny, I must have missed that particular papal decree…

Tell me, agname: since we KNOW that not exercising is bad for one’s health, is one guilty of a mortal sin if a person does not exercise, even if they know they should, but don’t?

Since we KNOW that eating the good Colonel’s chicken is not good for us, is one guilty of a mortal sin if one eats a whole bucket? How about a half-bucket? 3 pieces?