So easy to sin mortally

[newconvertcatholic]

Yes, because the devil can twist human conscience.
Human conscience is not infallible.
Church teaching, especially on matters of morality, are unchanged since the beginning and are not subject to conscience of modern society.

Church therefore has the absolute right to define grave matter.
But somethings are just intrinsically evil such as abortion or torture.
But you’ve still got people who rationalize these things. Thank God for the Church.

 

[steve-b]

… “”“There are so many threads on here where people talk about how they fall out of a state of grace so easily and are frequently in a state of mortal sin…For everyone who believes it is so easy to commit mortal sin, I truly am curious about what these mortal sins are…What horrible things do God-fearing, church going people do on such a regular basis that they have to constantly worry they’ll end up in hell?..I mean, by the way some people talk, there’s very little hope of anyone getting to heaven.”""

======================

Excellent Question - which in turn IMO contains a few questionable assumptions…

IMHO - I don’t think that your average person - has committed a 3-Conditioned Mortal Sin.

In the past, many actions were labelled Mortal Sins… Let’s look closer at that understanding; especially at the Third (and necessary) Condition…

Whereas it’s somewhat easy to fulfill the first and sometimes second (of the three) Conditions necessary for a sin to be a full-blown Mortal Sin… one must consider what the third condition is… before accepting that a person would be on their way to Hell unless they Repent ( yes, repentance removes the Sin - aka leading to Forgiveness.

Excerpt from An excellent Article on this question -

1. Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
2. Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
   3. Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner

The article you link to says the sacrament of reconciliation is required to forgive mortal sin

AND

#3 is what you think is impossible or sooooo difficult to do, then mortal sin doesn’t happen…right?

All #3 is saying is that it (a sin) is a free will choice one makes. That’s it. No big mystery. That’s all there is to it.

EndTimes:

This means that mortal sins cannot be done “accidentally.” A person who commits a mortal sin is one who knows that their sin is wrong, but still deliberately commits the sin anyway. This means that mortal sins are “premeditated” by the sinner and thus are truly a rejection of God’s law and love.

This response exhibits how people read into things what is not there, and in extension get into trouble by their own doing.

EndTimes:

FULL ARTICLE which Answers Many if not all Questions.

WHAT IS A MORTAL SIN?
What is a Mortal Sin?

Mortal sin is easy to commit. Just look at the specific mortal sins listed and how many people are in mortal sin.

 

[jzea1992]

Fornication and drunkenness are common now. For both genders.

 

[Pug]

There are so many threads on here where people talk about how they fall out of a state of grace so easily and are frequently in a state of mortal sin. And the people who post on these threads appear to be God-fearing people who try to do right by God and the Church.

First, fewer Catholics attend confession than before, so I don’t think most Catholics in real life are all that worried. You have a small sample here at CAF. Second, one can be early on the path and still carry many habits of long standing that are hard to change. Late on the path, when huge lines have been carved in your life and have been there so long perhaps so you no longer see them, then many sins are easy to avoid. You just go about your regular day and they are automatically avoided, without thought. But, the Devil is subtle, so heed yourself. Or, pride goeth before a fall. Better to just go about the day, and not notice if it is easy or not. Just go about your business. God will take care of the rest.

 

[GladTidings]

Late on the path, when huge lines have been carved in your life and have been there so long perhaps so you no longer see them, then many sins are easy to avoid.

I know someone who has honestly said, “I don’t sin, so I don’t need to go to confession.” He hasn’t gone in 35 years. Listen to him talk about politics for five minutes, and you will hear him say something sinful.

 

[Cricket13]

That sounds about what it is for me. I reconverted back in December, and the biggest confession was a sin of the flesh kind. Every other sin confessed along with that hasn’t been an issue to not be tempted in, and I haven’t fallen back into that particular sin of the flesh…but I would be lying if I said I didn’t struggle with some temptations in that area. By God’s Grace, it’s gotten easier over time to be strong against it.

 

[twf]

We had a thread not too long ago regarding lustful thoughts. One poster had quotes from St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Alphonsus seemingly supporting his assertion that in regards to lustful thoughts, all it takes is a single moment, a single split second, to commit a full fledged mortal sin. I find that extremely difficult to reconcile with the Church’s teaching that full consent of the will is required for a sin to be mortal. How can you make a deliberate, informed sin in a single moment? I would think you would need at least a few moments to realize what’s happening and then decide you don’t care and commit anyway…

 

[Nihilo]

We had a thread not too long ago regarding lustful thoughts. One poster had quotes from St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Alphonsus seemingly supporting his assertion that in regards to lustful thoughts, all it takes is a single moment, a single split second, to commit a full fledged mortal sin. I find that extremely difficult to reconcile with the Church’s teaching that full consent of the will is required for a sin to be mortal. How can you make a deliberate, informed sin in a single moment? I would think you would need at least a few moments to realize what’s happening and then decide you don’t care and commit anyway…

Good observation and thought. It’s one of the tons of reasons why I thank God for the Catechism. We don’t have to expose our consciences to anything but what the bishops themselves regard as the “correct answers” (alluding to my thread about the Catechism being the ‘teachers’ edition’ ). That is what the Apostles veritably taught, and I’ll gladly bind my conscience with their authentic teachings.

Thank God for the Catechism.

 

[CathoRick]

The worst offender?

“Worst offender” as in “the easiest mortal sin to commit today”. I didn’t mean to imply that porn is the most terrible sin out there.

 

[EndTimes]

And what if the individual has convinced themselves, whether rationally, through rationalization, or by means of their own conscience, possibly not well-formed, that the sin they are committing is NOT grave matter, contrary to Church teaching? Would the full knowledge still apply, or, because they do not believe the sin is grave matter and not really a sin (possibly not even a venial sin), does that mean they do NOT have full knowledge either, nor deliberate consent?

YES… Grave Matter IS Grave Matter - no matter what one believes wrt one’s behavior
And thus only fulfills the 1st Condition of Mortal Sin in the case of one who Sins Gravely but doesn’t Know it’s a Grave Sin…

 

[EndTimes]

steve-b , All #3 is saying is that it (a sin) is a free will choice one makes . That’s it. No big mystery. That’s all there is to it.

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No… You appear to not Fully Understand the large gulf between the first & second conditions,
And, the 3rd…

1. A person (Premeditated) murders another - who was found out to have kills someone else .
   Even is said person did not believe they committed a grave sin - Murder is always Grave. .

2… If same person knew ahead of time - that the Murder is Grave and Murdered anyway…
That person fulfills 1 and 2.

1. FULL CONSENT … If the person if fully aware that God Forbids Murder and with God in Mind too, still Wills to Murder anyway as also an affront to God Himself… then that fulfills condition 3.

Full Consent is the distinguishing Key…

_

 

[Pug]

I know someone who has honestly said, “I don’t sin, so I don’t need to go to confession.” He hasn’t gone in 35 years. Listen to him talk about politics for five minutes, and you will hear him say something sinful.

I’ve heard something similar from people myself. Perhaps they are right concerning mortal sin in their own case, but there are still lots of smaller things to work on! We should keep working at it, growing in love. It is easy to say we’ve grown enough, but so many spiritual writers say if we just tread water we are going backward.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b , All #3 is saying is that it (a sin) is a free will choice one makes . That’s it. No big mystery. That’s all there is to it.

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No… You appear to not Fully Understand the large gulf between the first & second conditions,
And, the 3rd…

1. A person (Premeditated) murders another - who was found out to have kills someone else .
   Even is said person did not believe they committed a grave sin - Murder is always Grave. .

2… If same person knew ahead of time - that the Murder is Grave and Murdered anyway…
That person fulfills 1 and 2.

1. FULL CONSENT … If the person if fully aware that God Forbids Murder and with God in Mind too, still Wills to Murder anyway as also an affront to God Himself… then that fulfills condition 3.

Full Consent is the distinguishing Key…

_

There is no premeditation required. That can be the case but not required. A sin presents itself. And one chooses to do it. The gravity of the matter determines the gravity of the sin committed

 

[EndTimes]

steve-b
There is no premeditation required.
The gravity of the matter determines the gravity of the sin committed…

---

You’re making no sense…

Murder is always a Grave Matter

PreMeditated Murder is graver than Non-premeditated Murder

FULL CONSENT to willfully and consciously oppose God
is graver than merely recalling that Murder is a Grave Issue aka 2nd Condition…
and in turn fulfills the 3rd Condition…

 

[steve-b]

steve-b
There is no premeditation required.
The gravity of the matter determines the gravity of the sin committed…

---

You’re making no sense…

Murder is always a Grave Matter

PreMeditated Murder is graver than Non-premeditated Murder

FULL CONSENT to willfully and consciously oppose God
is graver than merely recalling that Murder is a Grave Issue aka 2nd Condition…
and in turn fulfills the 3rd Condition…

Using a simple image from scripture

“Today I put before you life and death blessings and curses, choose life…” [Dt 30]

to sin or not to sin is a choice we make

 

[EndTimes]

Using a simple image from scripture

“Today I put before you life and death blessings and curses, choose life…” [Dt 30]

to sin or not to sin is a choice we make

No.

Not to those whom whatever reason do not know that an action is a Sin: Grave or Not. .

Recall… We’re discussing the 3 Conditions for a Sin to be Mortal… and Not, eg, Venial Sins.

 

[goout]

steve-b:

Using a simple image from scripture

“Today I put before you life and death blessings and curses, choose life…” [Dt 30]

to sin or not to sin is a choice we make

No.

Not to those whom whatever reason do not know that an action is a Sin: Grave or Not. .

Recall… We’re discussing the 3 Conditions for a Sin to be Mortal… and Not, eg, Venial Sins.

Steve;s point is that actions are chosen, and they are. And part of the Christian call is to take responsibility for those choices now, today, not superimpose past ignorance over our culpability.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Using a simple image from scripture

“Today I put before you life and death blessings and curses, choose life…” [Dt 30]

to sin or not to sin is a choice we make

No.

Not to those whom whatever reason do not know that an action is a Sin: Grave or Not. .

Recall… We’re discussing the 3 Conditions for a Sin to be Mortal… and Not, eg, Venial Sins.

Who exactly is it that you are arguing for?

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest."

While feelings and emotions and passions can diminish the “voluntary” charcter of the act, it doesn’t take away the act.

Humanity, flawed as it is, doesn’t need any more excuses to use in denying culpability, or from avoiding guilt for what we do.

Then there are the mentally challenged. That depends on their deficit,

 

[EndTimes]

Steve;s point is that actions are chosen, and they are.

And My point is that Actions can be an unchosen as
unconscious… involuntary… Invincible ignorance. .
very removed from any realized sense of sin. .
ergo, sans any additional argumentation,
any focus upon ‘chosen’ remains rather moot
when looking into the 3rd Condition of a Grave Sin to be Mortal

For Sure - Satan committed a 3-Conditioned Mortal Sin…

For Sure - wrt Communion and Penance
— a 7 year Catholic child back in the day
who negligently ate meat on a Friday
or who Missed a Sunday Mass w/o knowing it was Sunday…
could have been labelled by some as having committed a Mortal Sin (Ist Condition grave)

Yes… certain actions are Grave. The CCC does an excellent job of spelling that out. .

However . Those children did Not commit a 3-Conditioned Mortal Sin!

We’re discussing that 3rd Condition…

Give me a specific example of a Sin supporting your argument, =
so that we can analyze it in greater detail.

_

 

[goout]

Hold on a second. Your assertion that all human acts are not chosen doesn’t hold.

Now you may want to say that a person chooses to commit an objectively sinful act but is not culpable, because they did not choose fullly knowing the moral situation, or did not choose in intentional rebellion against God…that’s different.