So easy to sin mortally

[steve-b]

HERE

QuD:

For a sin to be mortal all 3 following conditions must be fulfilled:

1. grave matter - i.e. seriousness of the act (may depend on circumstances) - Decalogue and Church precepts are a good guidance.
2. full consent of will - that means an act is deliberate, not hindered by some physical, psychical or moral impediments (like lack of reason, or - indeed - an addiction)
3. full knowledge - a knowledge of sinfulness of the act is sufficient - which means even knowledge of the gravity of a matter is not necessary.

This is actually incorrect – Switch 2 and 3

Grave Matter alone - does not constitute the 3 necessary Categories

Neither does one’s Knowing that a sin committed is Mortal (Condition 2)

Full Consent is the least understood Condition… .

It connects with wanting to offend God. Which then becomes call it a Full Blown Mortal Sin

We’re not in the position to know the hearts/souls of others - Only GOD Does
That said:
SATAN is an example of one whom we could say with confidence - fulfilled all 3 conditions…

I

God was already asked specifically about the future. Looking ahead to the end, His answer was few are saved HERE IOW most aren’t saved. Meaning only a few go to heaven, ergo most people ( the rest) died in mortal sin.

 

[EndTimes]

Satan isn’t going to Heaven and the Catholic Church has never even definitively said that Judas Iscariot is going to Hell.

 

[steve-b]

Satan isn’t going to Heaven and the Catholic Church has never even definitively said that Judas Iscariot is going to Hell.

So? That’s not the Church’s job to say who is or is not in hell

Re: what Jesus says in scripture,​

Jn 12:49
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

Jn 12:50
whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

Therefore when Jesus said few are saved, that comes straight from the Father.

 

[QuD]

Nope,
for a consent to be considered full a knowledge of sinfullness of act is sufficient. It does not require a neither desire to offend God nor knowledge that the sin is mortal.
And 2/3 are not to be switched. 2 (consent of will) means adherence of will to the act (one is not coerced), 3 is full knowledge (one knows the act is sinful).

 

[CRV]

Example:-
Fornication outside marriage = grave matter
Catholic knows it is grave matter/mortal sin
Catholic remembers it is “.
Catholic thinks “Oh, what difference does it make, we’re going to be married anyway”.(couple is engaged to be married).
Catholic fully consents to fornicating with their intended.
Grave matter
Full Knowledge
Full Consent
= Mortal sin committed
The Gravity of Sin - Mortal & Venial #1854 onwards, but in particular #1857, #1859.
Good Acts and Evil Acts #1755 and #1756 " …There are acts which, in and of themselves, independently of circumstances and intentions, are always gravely illicit by reason of their object; …”

POST-SYNODAL APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION RECONCILIATION AND PENANCE OF JOHN PAUL II TO THE BISHOPS CLERGY AND FAITHFUL ON RECONCILIATION AND PENANCE IN THE MISSION OF THE CHURCH TODAY - scroll down to Mortal and Venial, #17 " …The synod in fact not only reaffirmed the teaching of the Council of Trent concerning the existence and nature of mortal and venial sins,(95) but it also recalled that mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent. It must be added-as was likewise done at the synod-that some sins are intrinsically grave and mortal by reason of their matter. That is, there exist acts which, per se and in themselves, independently of circumstances, are always seriously wrong by reason of their object. These acts, if carried out with sufficient awareness and freedom, are always gravely sinful."

What is a Mortal Sin? “…This means that mortal sins cannot be done “accidentally.” A person who commits a mortal sin is one who knows that their sin is wrong, but still deliberately commits the sin anyway. This means that mortal sins are “premeditated” by the sinner and thus are truly a rejection of God’s law and love…”
continued below:-

 

[CRV]

continued:-

it is morally impossible that the will, confirmed in its good purposes for a considerable lapse of time, should on a sudden undergo so total a change as at once to consent to a mortal sin without clearly knowing it; the reason of it is, that mortal sin is so horrible a monster that it cannot possible enter a soul by which it has long been held in abhorrence, without her being fully aware of it.

Pardon and Peace: Bogeys - The Question of Consent “… It is morally impossible for a person who is habitually careful about purity to give full consent to impure thoughts without being fairly certain of it. When the will is habitually set against impurity, full consent to impure thoughts implies a somersault of the will, a volte-face, a turning round from North to South Pole. It is impossible for such a complete change to take place in the will without the mind being pretty certain about it. Uncertainty is, therefore, a clear sign that there was no full consent. …” (Bold and Italics are mine).

 

[steve-b]

Nope,
for a consent to be considered full a knowledge of sinfullness of act is sufficient. It does not require a neither desire to offend God nor knowledge that the sin is mortal.
And 2/3 are not to be switched. 2 (consent of will) means adherence of will to the act (one is not coerced), 3 is full knowledge (one knows the act is sinful).

And as you show, game playing abounds with terms, so the sinner diminishes or completely demotes guilt of whatever seriousness, to a simple misdemeanor or no fault at all.

Then there are the
Subaverage intellectual functioning

Intelligence quotient (I.Q.) tests are designed to measure intellectual functioning. An I.Q. score provides a rough numerical assessment of an individual’s present level of mental functioning in comparison with that of others. The vast majority of people in the United States have I.Q.s between 80 and 120, with an I.Q. of 100 considered average. To be diagnosed as having mental retardation, a person must have an I.Q. below 70-75, i.e. significantly below average. If a person scores below 70 on a properly administered and scored I.Q. test, he or she is in the bottom 2 percent of the American population10 and meets the first condition necessary to be defined as having mental retardation

From: Beyond Reason: Mental Retardation: An Overview

Obviously those folks can’t/don’t operate at everyone elses level of understanding

 

[goout]

goout:

We are talking past one another.
Man chooses his acts and is responsible for using freedom wisely.
Then we can talk about culpability.
You are conflating a couple different things.

No… Not every action a person makes is always a conscious decision.

Unconscious “acts” are not the same thing, obviously. We are not talking about reflexes, and we are getting silly here.

Human beings are given free will, and are free to make choices. This opens up responsibility. And after all the uncertainty expressed in this thread about mortal culpability, the point of the Gospel remains the same: human beings are responsible, and the more responsible we are the more truly free we become.
And that’s where love opens up: in true freedom.

St JP2: https://www.ignatius.com/Love-and-Responsibility-P1550.aspx

 

[Dolphin]

God isn’t out to get you, He’s not like “oh there we go, a mortal sin, now time for them to die.”

I believe one of the promises of the Rosary is those who say it regularly will never die in a state of mortal sin or not have the chance for confession or something

 

[EndTimes]

Satan isn’t going to Heaven and the Catholic Church has never even definitively said that Judas Iscariot is going to Hell.

Actually, The Church knows and can say and has said that Satan is going to hell.

It’s part of our Job to help folks… To Not go to Hell…

Teach them about Messiah Jesus… Yes?

 

[vz71]

1234567890

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Satan isn’t going to Heaven and the Catholic Church has never even definitively said that Judas Iscariot is going to Hell.

Actually, The Church knows and can say and has said that Satan is going to hell.

It’s part of our Job to help folks… To Not go to Hell…

Teach them about Messiah Jesus… Yes?

Yes, …

AND​

As Jesus put it, in a statement, that begins with a qualifier

“IF you love me You will keep my commandments” [Jn 14:15]

SO,​

Re: the topic (so easy to sin mortally)

When sin presents itself, of the mortal or venial types… that one chooses to do, or not to do … right?

Then when one sins mortally, such as fornication or adultery for example, they put their soul in immediate jeopardy of hell should they die in that sin.

So​

One needs to be solid in their formation and faith, AND in extension, solid in their teaching of others.

Since according to Jesus,
"few are saved", objectively speaking then, it shows the rest of the population, is NOT saved. Meaning, objectively speaking, they who are NOT saved, died in mortal sin.. One in venial sin at death, does NOT go to hell.

If you disagree with that point, let’s talk.

 

[PatK63]

It does now say few will be saved. It says many will not be able to enter through the narrow gate. Big difference!

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

In context, what do you believe is being taught?

[13] Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. [14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!

 

[PatK63]

Jesus is the gate and the way. This translation is different than the one sited earlier. My hope is remembering the good thief when Jesus told him, this day you will be with me in paradise. It was not difficult for him IMO.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

I suspect he meant the most frequent offense. Statistically, there is a lot of porn consumption going on, even with secular statistics.

 

[EndTimes]

**PatK63
It does not say few will be saved. It says many will not be able to enter through the narrow gate. **
Big difference!
Exactly… !

 

[steve-b]

It does now say few will be saved. It says many will not be able to enter through the narrow gate. Big difference!

Jesus was asked will those who are saved be few? Show me HERE where Jesus denied that few will be saved. He validates it

ALSO Matthew 7:13-14

 

[PatK63]

I don’t think those words should be taken literally. As for me I am trying very hard to be found worthy to enter the narrow gate. By the grace of God.

 

[steve-b]

I don’t think those words should be taken literally. As for me I am trying very hard to be found worthy to enter the narrow gate. By the grace of God.

When God, after being asked, says few are saved, I take Him seriously

AND​

From the CCC

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."

Jesus, the one who does all the judging, tells us where that comes from and why it is said the way it is. HERE