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tweetymom
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You have not proven anything except that you are blindsighted:shrug:
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BrianH
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But your answer was the Sola Scriptura answer.More like another type program, where occasionally the comic relief runs through.
Didn’t you just run through a few posts ago and post 2 Timothy 3:16 - 17 as if it supported private interpretation?
I am not Sola Scriptura which I have only pointed out twice now. You have either chosen to ignore that or simply do not care to address the beliefs of the person with whom you are discussing with.
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Before we proceed. Are you going to continue to act like I have short term memory loss or are you actually going to provide what the Catechism says about private interpretation? Because right now, unless the Catholic Church has infallibly interpreted these passages, I do believe that is exactly what you are doing.
Can we go from that point first please.
As far as apostolic succession, I seriously doubt you even care to know what we believe. You certainly did not ask but I assume you must know or are too conceited to care.
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Prodigal_Son1
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I believe scriptures was written for all. I do not believe all are to interpret them by themselves.
Go to John 13 and note verse 1, then continue reading through until Christ is arrested in the garden and tell me how many people He speaks too. I’ll give you a hint, He’s only speaking to His Apostles because, 'Jesus knowing that his hour was come, that he should pass out of this world to the Father: having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them unto the end.’
John 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17, He is only with His Apostles. In chapter 18, He is arrested. In all those chapters He’s speaking with Apostles and you cannot take one verse alone or you lose the context of what is happening…
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Prodigal_Son1
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Why are you trying to derail the discussion?
If you have a point to make, make it. I know the Catechism does not offer an interpretation for all scriptures. The majority of what’s being discussed is listed in the Catechism.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
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BrianH
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You would be annoyed if someone was answering your posts with answers that had NOTHING to do with your view. It forced me to address arguments I was not even making. Look back on it. I told you to read what is next to my name and you STILL made some off topic answer. That is your fault. Not mine. You derailed by either not knowing what we believe or worse; not caring.
Now back to what we were saying.
The catechism quote you just gave does not forbid private interpretation. It gives a framework for it but it does not forbid it. Are you sure you are correctly stating Catholic teaching?
Now back to what we were saying.
The catechism quote you just gave does not forbid private interpretation. It gives a framework for it but it does not forbid it. Are you sure you are correctly stating Catholic teaching?
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Prodigal_Son1
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I care and am not too conceited, as you’ve judged me to be. If you read back through this thread you’ll see I’m discussing single verses taken out of context and what I believe to be incorrect statements. Do you believe there was no Holy Spirit in Old Testament times? Do you believe the Holy Spirit was different in the early Church than He is today?
Why haven’t you addressed any of the posts specifically that I’ve been posting? I’ve been trying to show someone that the verses they’re using are only a very small portion of a much larger event taking place in Christ’s ministry.
The Catechism is not going to help when you have a person who rejects the Catholic Church, even though they hold to being Catholic themself. If they reject the Catholic Church, surely they’re going to reject the Catechism’s instructions.
As I’ve said to you once, I apologize if I’m not making myself clear. Maybe if you specifically addressed points being raised, it would help. Changing topics in the middle of a discussion is not helping either party come to a conclusion, in my honest opinion.
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Prodigal_Son1
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I attended a few Methodist Churches when I was a Protestant. My sister attends one now. I’ll be honest and let you know, I don’t know alot about them, other than they do recite the Nicene Creed (or is it the Apostle’s Creed?). If you wish to start a discussion sharing your faith, you can start a new thread. I wouldn’t mind reading through. But as I explained in my other post, we’re discussing specific ‘single’ verses being pulled out of a large passage, taking them out of context to the much larger event being told to us.
But don’t assume me to be wrong just because you feel like the Holy Spirit is guiding you in your interpretation, as I feel the same way. Now when we have more than one interpretation, all claiming to have the Holy Spirit guiding us, who is correct?
The Catechism does not forbid private interpretation, unless you’re reading them against the Church. If you’ll read back through the thread, you’ll see that’s exactly what is happening, by someone claiming to be Catholic. How is the Catechism going to help if that person is rejecting the Catholic Church? That leaves us to try and give the context for what is being misunderstood. If you see any of those verses being posted, without explanations, as being in support of private interpretation, please share the explanations with us. If you see where I’m misinterpreting I am open to reading your view.
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BrianH
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The discussion went to private interpretation. I asked what the Catechism taught and so far it does not forbid it within parameters it seems.
Next, I brought up 2nd Timothy and had to endure the Sola Scriptura argument which I was not making. Which would be obvious to anyone reading. I am not going to address the Old Testament post made by someone else. Are you keeping people straight? She made that; not me.
But the answer to your question is that understanding of both has developed over time.
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Prodigal_Son1
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I consider myself as defending the Catholic faith. If you read back through, you’ll see someone claiming to be Catholic and more than speaking out and using scriptures against the Church. I’d say that breaks the parameters defined by the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Now, if you’re trying to justify that, I’m ready to explain my view of scriptures, within the parameters of the Church.The discussion went to private interpretation. I asked what the Catechism taught and so far it does not forbid it within parameters it seems.
Next, I brought up 2nd Timothy and had to endure the Sola Scriptura argument which I was not making. Which would be obvious to anyone reading. I am not going to address the Old Testament post made by someone else. Are you keeping people straight? She made that; not me.
But the answer to your question is that understanding of both has developed over time.
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TEPO
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Proven?
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TEPO
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This must be the original question that you find the “sola scriptura” argument to be inconsistent with…
Anyone can interpret scripture, but if ones interpretation conflicts with that of the Clergy -well then its wrong!
So what’s your point?
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TEPO
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What on earth is “norvus ordo”??? Who is “seperated brothers” and what are you talking about?
Also -why do you call yourself a heretic?
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CMatt25
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Prodigal,
So you are listening to interpretations of men? I’m just puzzled how you arrived at your beliefs. Someone gave you an interpretation or you read an interpretation and you didn’t check Scripture to confirm what someone else said? My point is don’t we either have to have blind faith in what someone else tells us or we have to search Scripture. If someone had told you, Prodigal, jump off a bridge, you were just going to do it? Who told you the Catholic faith was the one? How did you know to believe these men in the first place? Did you then check Scripture or did you just take their word for it? If you read something from the ECF did you just take their word for it or did you look at Scripture? How did you even arrive at believing the Bible is sacred Scripture and not say the Quran? Faith.
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CMatt25
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Why if someone was baptized and is considered a member of the Catholic Church by the Church, should they have to stop calling themselves Catholic if that is what they are, is what the Church considers them to be and they want to call themselves a Catholic? When people say a Catholic according to definition of the Church is not Catholic, it looks like you too are disagreeing with something the Church defines. 
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MyRdmrLvs
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It does.
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MyRdmrLvs
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thats why having one man lead is a problem when hes wrong everyone is wrong.
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Prodigal_Son1
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I read scriptures and, like everyone else, receive an interpretation. Then I weigh that interpretation against the Church interpretation, if the Church offers an interpretation on the particular passage. When the Church does not offer an interpretation, I do my best to read the Scripture within “the living Tradition of the whole Church”, as the Catechism of the Catholic Church tells us.Prodigal,
I was raised a Protestant, and attended many different denominations, all with differences in their teachings. Once I was married, I wanted to know which of the denominations was correct. Through research, reading scriptures, prayers and reflections, the Holy Spirit led me to the Catholic Church. I was not evangelized. Through the gifts of the Holy Spirit, I know the Catholic Church is the Church of the Bible. When I was a Protestant, I could not understand all of the scriptures and had to rely on what a preacher told me they meant and still some explanations made no sense. As a Catholic, the Bible has come to life for me.
When compared to the early Church fathers, scriptures are more than validated. When scriptures are read in view of the writings of the early Church fathers, those writings are more than validated.
In most instances, one can understand a passage clearly. It’s when people attempt to fit scriptures to a theology that creative explanations are provided. When one fits their theology to scriptures, it’s Catholic.
Faith is based, or should be based, on more than a good feeling. God gave us brains, as well as hearts, to weigh and discern with.
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Prodigal_Son1
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Every Protestant Church has one man leading. If they disagree with his leading, those of the congregation that disagree move to another Church, where there is one leader again. God simplified this for us when He built His Church and made ONE leader over it, the whole Church on earth, under His leadership.
The many denominations are not being of the same mind and judgment, they are not of the same accord and scriptures tells us that is what we’re to be.
If you have faith in Christ, you can have faith in His power to protect His truth, even through sinful men of His Church. Protestants raise those sinful men as objections all the time, but is there a Protestant Church without sinful men? All of us are sinners. Our goals are to sin no more, but through human weaknesses we have to work at it.
Christ did not teach the people to leave the synagogue/Temple immediately if you don’t believe those that sit on Moses’ seat because of their sinful actions. Christ taught the people to listen and do whatsoever they shall say to you. Why would His teaching be any different over His Church?
**Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not. **
Christ’s example did not end with that small passage, read all of Matthew 23 and see those held accountable for their actions.
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BrianH
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You simply have a very limited and inaccurate view of Protestants. Study some and leave the generalizations behind. EVERY Protestant church has one man leading? Is this applicable to churches that have no clergy like the Quakers? No. Is this applicable to churches that have a plurality of elders like the Church of Christ or some non-denominational churches? No. Is this applicable To people that have congregational polity? No. You simply think that everything we believe is what you KNOW that we believe. That is the problem. You have made up your mind and **do not care **if you spread inaccurate information.
Its one thing to disagree with us, thats cool. But to spread things that are not true should not be acceptable.
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