So what should a Catholic reaction to the Alabama abortion ban be?

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David_Catholic said:
What about a 12 year old girl who’s raped and can’t physically carry a child without risk of irreversible bodily harm?
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That is a question I would also have. In the case of a just war, killing the enemy soldier may not be a sin. Yes, the enemy soldier has the right to life, and he was forced by his government to serve in the army or be hanged, but still, you have the right to defend yourself against an aggressor. I find that even here on CAF, there are Roman Catholics who try to justify the dropping of an atomic bomb on Japan. But that does not involve only soldiers. That involves the killing of innocent Japanese children. And yet, they try to justify that. Of course, I would disagree and maintain that the dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan was morally wrong. But to get back to the problem of abortion in this case of a 12 year old child who has been brutally beaten and raped. First of all, I favor capital punishment by hanging in this case. I don’t see any excuse for this. I assume that this is not fake news, but of course it is difficult to believe that. But getting on to the question of abortion in this case. It seems to me that the 12 year old girl has a right to her life and she is not hurting anyone. Suppose though that she feels that this embryo in her womb is an aggressor of some sort on her life and she is mentally distressed and is becoming hysterical believing that her brutal rapist has planted a seed in her with the intention of destroying her life. Would the rule of self-defense apply here allowing her to defend herself by abortion? Self defense is justified in other cases, such as war where innocent people are killed as the soldier attempts to defend himself and protect his life. I find this to be a hard case because the 12 year old child and her parents may believe the seed planted by the rapist is an unjust aggessor on the life of the 12 year old child.
 
Padres1969 said:
and only the women are legally alive
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This is the very point at which the abortion issue is divided. The child, which would meet every biological criteria for being alive and being human, does not meet the legal criteria.

I support the law in every way except the punishment, which I believe to be disproportionate.
 
mythbuster1 said:
As to the rapist, lock him up and throw away the key. Seize his property to pay for his incarceration; he won’t be needing it.
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Of course his property should be seized and all or large part of it should be given to the 12 year old child. It is not going to be cheap or easy for a 12 year old child to bear and then raise the child of the rapist.
 
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Of you go onto Facebook or some other discussion platform on social media, it is to be expected to find people arguing both sides, including one or two who are way out there with radical ideas, maybe energised by other sources.

But here on the CAF, I would be expecting there to be a clear majority for pro life, and disagreements at best about details. I am concerned to see that is not the case. If not even we can be clear about this and reject the propaganda of the other side for the manipulative falsehood that it is, how are we going to convince society at large?
 
Lea101 said:
Countries with legal abortion have maternal leave without this problem though, including mine. So I don’t think this is actually a problem Americans will fall into unless they’re really looking for any reason to avoid leave.

Also, no maternal leave would make pregnancy more of a burden than a blessing which would encourage abortion. Women with no strong convictions against abortion will not keep the baby if they see ‘cons’ everywhere they go.
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I won’t disagree with you.

But I don’t see maternal leave happening anytime soon.

I have worked in a hospital for over 35 years (28 years in the same hospital, an inner-city hospital).

Here’s what I’ve seen over and over and OVER again–most of the women I work with (and I mostly work with women) do NOT want to stay home with their babies for more than 6 weeks.

I have heard hundreds of women say, “I hate being home all day with babies and small children. I don’t know what to do with myself and I’m so bored. I need to be working to keep my mind active, and my children are getting such a good environment at the day care, much more enriching than what they have at home.”

With the creation of “Lactation Stations,” women don’t need to cite “breast-feeding” as a reason for wanting to stay home with babies. Many women love their alone-time in the Lactation Station

I have never worked in a high-income, competitive business environment, but I know that many women in these job settings do not want to be away from their work for more than a few weeks, as they quickly become out-dated.

Honestly, I think that many women truly do not WANT to stay home with a babies or small children.

I think that in the United States, the women who are trying to get some kind of maternity leave are pushing for 6 weeks–only 6 weeks. Many of these women are in businesses like retail where there is often only 3 days of maternity leave.

I don’t see any evidence that the majority of working women are asking for extended or year-long maternity leaves.

I think that with this generation of young women, so many of them were raised in day care themselves that they don’t know how to rear a child. I work with several women who actually LEAVE THEIR BABIES IN DAYCARE when they have a day off so that they can “get things done around the house.” What?!!!

I had so much fun raising my children! They turned out well, and I feel in large part that their successful schooling and careers were/are due to ME and my childrearing! Brag, brag, brag!!! High self-esteem!!

But when I try to talk to young women about these things, they say, “Well, you were just good at that kind of thing.”

So in summary, I just don’t think there is a lot of demand in the U.S. for an extended maternity leave, and so I don’t think it will ever happen.

Those women who want that kind of thing have to make darn sure that they marry someone who is fully supportive of Mom staying home with the children, and who earns an income sufficient to support his family and provide basic necessities.
 
I don’t think a year long leave is necessary or helpful to companies, to be honest. I think we get 12-16 weeks here, which starts before the delivery.

I don’t know the implications of legislating this. It works here because obviously our government structure is very different.

I do think it’s good to have an option though. Some sort of paternity leave too.

Staying at home with babies can wreck one’s mind at times. I don’t blame those women, lol. But through the eyes of a singe mother (especially), I do think a lack of maternity leave can encourage thoughts of abortion. Studies show that majority of women expressed that they would like to be more involved with their children’s lives and they do actually work less hours due to family commitments too.

There’s obviously other areas to focus on too, like lowering adoption costs, improving the foster care system etc.

And on a community/company level, people can create a more pro family environment instead of acting like a baby is a grenade thrown at their ambitions. The office I interned at had a childcare in it. While it’s not the prettiest, I noticed parents come down during lunch and breaks to spend some time before going back up.

Little things like this makes parenting a more attractive choice.
 
Some people don’t like facing reality. It’s the same kind of reaction when pro-choicers see pictures of abortion.

We need to see pictures sometimes. Seeing that picture helped awaken me to the reality that this question can be very complex. If not 99.99% of the time, then at least for a 12 year old who is beaten and raped…
 
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CCHcolonel said:
Rapes account for .5% of abortions. So that argument is borderline irrelevant.

25% are due to “not being ready for a child”

Facts About Abortion: U.S. Abortion Statistics
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Reread the article…its less than .5% [one in 200] on one chart, and .001% [one in 100,000] on another…from their numbers, in the U.S., nine abortions in 2017 were performed due to rape, and one due to incest…
If exceptions for rape and incest are allowed, no abortion mill could survive on those numbers.
 
The best response to rape/incest exception argument is

“Before we discuss rape/incest exception, do you agree all other abortions are immoral?”

“No”

“So then why bring up an exception you don’t believe in?”
 
glencor63 said:
Has there ever been a moment of peace on the Earth? NO, the world is not better!
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  1. Yes, there have been a lot.
  2. Even our current society is better than society before the Incarnation. In Greece, baby girls were often exposed to the elements and left to die. In Carthage, children were thrown screaming into furnaces as sacrifices. In Rome, people watched gladiator combat like we watch football. In Mexico before the coming of Cortez, the average Mexican had a 1 in 3 chance of having their heart ripped out on an altar, and human blood was used as a seasoning. Our society in America has only gone as far as hiding the humanity of those we wish to kill. Morality has gotten better.
 
Aquinas11 said:
The best response to rape/incest exception argument is

“Before we discuss rape/incest exception, do you agree all other abortions are immoral?”

“No”

“So then why bring up an exception you don’t believe in?”
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My point exactly…logically, you’d think that the need for exceptions would imply that abortion itself is immoral…
 
If we want to go further on this, we should probably start a different thread.
 
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