So who is the whore of babylon?

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A few pieces to the puzzle of the picture of the whore of Babylon are the 3 Beast of Rev. 13.

1st Beast:
World Ruling System vs. God

2nd Beast:
False Prophet vs. Jesus

3rd Beast:
Babylon vs. Church

Chapter 13 is only 18 verses long. You can read it at: nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation13.htm

To summarize a length discussion I originally posted at The 3 Beast of Rev. 13 . . .

the 1st beast is an ‘it’, not a ‘him’; and that ‘it’ is the worshiping of self above God. The 2nd beast is false teachers that preach the message of fulfill self and that God loves everyone and that you don’t have to do anything to accept Christ.

Turning to the 3rd beast of Rev. 13 . . . .

Genesis 11:1,4 --The whole earth was of one language and one speech – they said let us build us a city and a tower and let us make us a name
  • language - Hebrew: sepheth - lip or- boundary line.
  • speech - Hebrew: dabar - arrangement; spoken commandment
city and tower - considered a sovereign kingdom with its own boundary and law (commandment/instruction) (called a mountain)
  • name - Hebrew: shem - authority; honor; fame
Genesis 2:16 17 – of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shall not eat of it.

Genesis 3:1,5 – The serpent was more subtil than any beast – (the serpent said) in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and “ye shalt be as gods” –

The sin of the harlot (self-worship) started with Eve and the original beast (the serpent). He ruled Eve and Adam by causing them to move the boundary of God (thou shalt) taking in forbidden boundary (thou shalt not). This established a new law of self-esteem (pride). Eve, the original harlot (idolator), rode upon the beast (serpent), polluting the people (Adam). After the flood, Nimrod reinstituted, at Babel (Babylon), the rebellion of Eden, setting up a new boundary (city and tower), and a new commandment (name or authority). Pride (let us make a name) is the foundation of “all” idolatry (spiritual harlotry) that has polluted the world for all time. It is the system of self-worship. (Repent means to turn from self to God). Babel began a series of “world order” beast (ruling) systems (Dan. 2:31-45; 7:3-7). These empires, (beasts) ruled all the civilized world and fell as one conquered the other (Babylon, Persia/Medes, Greece, Rome. etc). America has dispensed with icon (statue) worship and retained the “self-esteem” (pride) system of Rome/Babylon and is polluting the world with it. Babylon fell once as a literal empire never to rise again (Jer. 51:26). The second time she will fall as a wicked idolatrous religious system of “self-esteem” and “pride”. (Babylon is fallen, is fallen - Rev. 18:2).
 
Pagan Rome and Apostate Jerusalem. And perhaps a future atheistic entity:shrug: .
 
xmydreamsfadex said:
title says it.

Revelation confuses me greatly.
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The Harlot of Babylon

Rev. 17:5 – And upon her forehead a name written, Mystery, Babylon the Great, The Mother of harlots and abominations of the earth.
Code: 
* harlot - Greek : porne-an idolator; prostitute; " to sell"
* abomination - Greek : bdelgma- detestable; to stink
Gen. 11:4 – “They said, Let us make us a name”
Code: 
* name - Hebrew: Shem- honour; authority conspicuous position
The Harlot of Babylon, the false world religion has corrupted man throughout history with idolatrous worship. Babylon rebelled against God’s Authority when they said, “Let us make us a name.” Pride (honour self) is the foundation of all idolatry. A man is an idol worshipper (of self) when he says, “I will make a name for myself. People will know me as an authority (name) by my idols (cars, houses, lands, things.) My position in the community will cause men to look up to me”. This is an abomination. Pride is a stinking smell to God. We are to be living, acceptable, (pleasing) sacrifices. (Rom 12:1). “Wicked-Spiritual” Babylon is the system of “pride” that will pollute the world at the end of time. God will return and destroy it. Where in the world can you find a system of Pride and Self-Esteem worship?
 
Science - men who endeavor to modify and even create life by cloning. The knowledge of good and evil - (they) “will be like gods who know”. (Genesis 3:5). My guess.
 
*Dear Brothers and Sisters,

In his great work “De Civitate Dei,” St Augustine says once that the whole of human history, the history of the world, is a struggle between two loves: love of God to the point of losing oneself, of total self-giving, and love of oneself to the point of despising God, of hating others. This same interpretation of history as a struggle between two loves, between love and selfishness, also appears in the reading from the Book of Revelation that we have just heard.

Here, these two loves appear in two great figures. First of all, there is the immensely strong, red dragon with a striking and disturbing manifestation of power without grace, without love, of absolute selfishness, terror and violence.

At the time when St John wrote the Book of Revelation, this dragon represented for him the power of the anti-Christian Roman Emperors, from Nero to Domitian. This power seemed boundless; the military, political and propagandist power of the Roman Empire was such that before it, faith, the Church, appeared as a defenceless woman with no chance of survival and even less of victory.

Who could stand up to this omnipresent force that seemed capable of achieving everything? Yet, we know that in the end it was the defenceless woman who won and not egoism or hatred; the love of God triumphed and the Roman Empire was opened to the Christian faith.

The words of Sacred Scripture always transcend the period in history. Thus, not only does this dragon suggest the anti-Christian power of the persecutors of the Church of that time, but also anti-Christian dictatorships of all periods.

We see this power, the force of the red dragon, brought into existence once again in the great dictatorships of the last century: the Nazi dictatorship and the dictatorship of Stalin monopolized all the power, penetrated every corner, the very last corner. It seemed impossible in the long term that faith could survive in the face of this dragon that was so powerful, that could not wait to devour God become a Child, as well as the woman, the Church. But also in this case, in the end love was stronger than hate.

Today too, the dragon exists in new and different ways. It exists in the form of …*

zenit.org/article-20333?l=english

HOLY MASS ON THE SOLEMNITY OF THE ASSUMPTION OF THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY
HOMILY OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI
St. Thomas of Villanova Parish, Castel Gandolfo
Wednesday, 15 August 2007
 
I must admit that it strikes me as peculiar that nobody on this thread has attempted to cite a Catholic authority on this question. What we appear to have here is a series of private interpretations by – and I mean no disrespect – people who have no authority to make them.

I recognize that the Church has not published an authoritative dissection of Revelation, but certainly there are works by Church leaders that offer insight. The only attempt made to cite anything is a reference to a book called Rapture – and if that book attemtps to demonstrate how Scripture prophesies the coming “Rapture”, it is certainly no authoritative Catholic resource.

Peace,
Dante
 
epostle said:
We see this power, the force of the red dragon, brought into existence once again in the great dictatorships of the last century: the Nazi dictatorship and the dictatorship of Stalin monopolized all the powerEver notice how the godless evil of communism is always associated with the color (red) as the dragon?
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DanteAlighieri said:
I must admit that it strikes me as peculiar that nobody on this thread has attempted to cite a Catholic authority on this question. What we appear to have here is a series of private interpretations by – and I mean no disrespect – people who have no authority to make them.

I recognize that the Church has not published an authoritative dissection of Revelation, but certainly there are works by Church leaders that offer insight. The only attempt made to cite anything is a reference to a book called Rapture – and if that book attemtps to demonstrate how Scripture prophesies the coming “Rapture”, it is certainly no authoritative Catholic resource.

Peace,
Dante
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My private revelation on this point is that the church sees no need to analyze the accusations of those in error, but rather endeavors to teach revealed truth. I was taught that much of Revelation has already occurred. Those in error always place it in the future, since it gives them some glimmer of hope that they might be right.

Christ’s peace.
 
From the New Advent Website we have this commenatry by Victorinus. He equates the whore to Rome.

newadvent.org/fathers/0712.htm

Part 1

Home > Fathers of the Church > Commentary on the Apocalypse (Victorinus)

From the Seventeenth Chapter

1-6. “There came one of the seven angels, which have the seven bowls, and spoke with me, saying, Come, I will show you the judgment of that great whore who sits upon many waters. And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs.”] The decrees of that senate are always accomplished against all, contrary to the preaching of the true faith; and now already mercy being cast aside, itself here gave the decree among all nations.
3. “And I saw the woman herself sitting upon the scarlet-coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy.”] But to sit upon the scarlet beast, the author of murders, is the image of the devil. Where also is treated of his captivity, concerning which we have fully considered. I remember, indeed, that this is called Babylon also in the Apocalypse, on account of confusion; and in Isaiah also; and Ezekiel called it Sodom. In fine, if you compare what is said against Sodom, and what Isaiah says against Babylon, and what the Apocalypse says, you will find that they are all one.
9. “The seven heads are the seven hills, on which the woman sits.”] That is, the city of Rome.
10. “And there are seven kings: five have fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he is come, he will be for a short time.”] The time must be understood in which the written Apocalypse was published, since then reigned Cæsar Domitian; but before him had been Titus his brother, and Vespasian, Otho, Vitellius, and Galba. These are the five who have fallen. One remains, under whom the Apocalypse was written—Domitian, to wit. “The other has not yet come,” speaks of Nerva; “and when he is come, he will be for a short time,” for he did not complete the period of two years.
11. “And the beast which you saw is of the seven.”] Since before those kings Nero reigned.
“And he is the eighth.”] He says only when this beast shall come, reckon it the eighth place, since in that is the completion. He added:—
“And shall go into perdition.”] For that ten kings received royal power when he shall move from the east, he says. He shall be sent from the city of Rome with his armies. And Daniel sets forth the ten horns and the ten diadems. And that these are eradicated from the former ones,—that is, that three of the principal leaders are killed by Antichrist: that the other seven give him honour and wisdom and power, of whom he says:—

To be continued
 
Victorinus continued
  1. “These shall hate the whore, to wit, the city, and shall burn her flesh with fire.”] Now that one of the heads was, as it were, slain to death, and that the stroke of his death was directed, he speaks of Nero. For it is plain that when the cavalry sent by the senate was pursuing him, he himself cut his throat. Him therefore, when raised up, God will send as a worthy king, but worthy in such a way as the Jews merited. And since he is to have another name, He shall also appoint another name, that so the Jews may receive him as if he were the Christ. Says Daniel: “He shall not know the lust of women, although before he was most impure, and he shall know no God of his fathers: for he will not be able to seduce the people of the circumcision, unless he is a judge of the law.” Daniel 11:37 Finally, also, he will recall the saints, not to the worship of idols, but to undertake circumcision, and, if he is able, to seduce any; for he shall so conduct himself as to be called Christ by them. But that he rises again from hell, we have said above in the word of Isaiah: “Water shall nourish him, and hell has increased him;” who, however, must come with name unchanged, and doings unchanged, as says the Spirit.
 
Twice the whore of Babylon has been awakened by man.

The first time was when a women was made Pope; there has been one so far as I was taught. Clergy screamed harlot and whore at it because of transgressions made at the sight of her placement of objects deemed to be of a second nature; some said they were in her hair, to extend her beauty, while others claimed she placed them on the alter, or book, of the church. Meaning: made changes the people of the julienne would not be able to do. Whore of the writings of god laid down for all to read! She was removed, all the while kissing her hands and feet because of her “complexion and style.”

The second time was at the possibility of Joan of Arc to rise to the throne and temple enabling her to offer sacrifices for sin; her beauty made people cower. Sadly, she was burned to death “more then one women on earth possessed her stunning beauty” and eliminating any possibility of her returns to defend her rights to the beautiful. Even so, she did hold the position of Pope for a short while, so both women were beautiful.

Finally, Pope Benedict, by my understanding means the preparation for war. Before either of the two ladies above arose to power the Benedictines sat of the seat on power with the julienne, then came the need for the female Pope.

Revelations (last book, new testament) clearly states the third time the pope shouts hallelujah “the woman arise who will set the stride, good or bad, for Babylon.”

A simple thought on the whore of Babylon. My words only. 😛
 
There certaintly should not be reason to be confuse…I am a almost convert to catholicism (almost in being Satan is winning thus far). Here is my experiences:
At Saint John the Thelogian Catholic Church in Saint Andrew (that is Panama City), Fl. After mass I approach the Church Father at that time(Father Don) and ask if that (refering to Mass) was the book of Revelation. He reply that, “We certaintly think so”. This is the same expierience that a well known publisher Scott Hahn said occur to him. So I would recommend you read his book The LAMB’S SUPPER. Although, I could add greatly to it, I must admit that he has the charistmatic evangelist movement that I will probablely never posses,I think that he would be the best recommendation for understanding the book of revelation. But just too give you a hint of what I am talking about, this is one of my experiences: I was told in one of my visions that the book of revelation was not written to scare people but for the love of the christian community at that time ( I do believe this vision was given especially to me because I have became so freighten of that book from the way I was raised as a non-demonination christian–that is sort of like a pentecostal).
Love in Christ and hope you got something out of all of this from this former thinking protestant.
P.S. Also, kind of like a disclosure statement. remember that it is not require by the Roman Catholic Faith that you believe what I have email, however, you might want to ponder it.
 
The answer is simple. How about the whore of Babylon is you and the whore of Babylon is me. Even though I am unfaithful, he remains faithful. Thank God for Mercy and Grace.

We can make this complicated if we want too. The book of Revelation is talking about me. I cannot put it on someone else. Not the Romans, Jerusalem, the Russians, the US, etc… It’s me. I am Catholic, born and raised. If someone says the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, I say you’re right and thank God he is faithful when I am unfaithful. I am the Church. The temple of the Holy Spirit.

I will leave it at this.

God Bless
 
Salmeno said:
Twice the whore of Babylon has been awakened by man.

The first time was when a women was made Pope; there has been one so far as I was taught. Clergy screamed harlot and whore at it because of transgressions made at the sight of her placement of objects deemed to be of a second nature; some said they were in her hair, to extend her beauty, while others claimed she placed them on the alter, or book, of the church.
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You might want to check your facts on this one. There was no Pope Joan.
 
po18guy said:
My private revelation on this point is that the church sees no need to analyze the accusations of those in error, but rather endeavors to teach revealed truth. I was taught that much of Revelation has already occurred. Those in error always place it in the future, since it gives them some glimmer of hope that they might be right.

Christ’s peace.
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you oversimplify, my friend.

In the end, the traditional Catholic view before modernism and rationalism is to discern spiritual meaning in the history of salvation. Salvtion history is truly a process that involves spiritual stages that are driven according to the always present struggle between sin and grace. Sin and grace manifest themselves not merely in individual persons, but in societies, hence, sin, and grace, leave imprints on human history. history, is not arbitrary, it is inherent in Catholicism that there is a “Plan”. Admittedly, as far as the age of the Church is concerned, it does not really include data such specific kingdoms and temporal calamities. Yet, on the other hand, God’s redemption of humanity is not yet complete, for even though Christ has come and established His Kingdom, the Church, he must still APPLY his Redemption to the Gentiles. The typical Catholic supposition that nothing will ever understood about this age except that it is nothjing more than a vague, wishy washy “millennium” is not dogma. There are clearly spiritual developmentst that are to be discerned.

Hence, whereas clearly the apocalypse has nothing to say about the USA or Iraq or any other BS like that, major spiritual developments and digressions have occurred, including schism, heresy, infidelity, and the modern secular apostasy.

Therefore, there are other layers that would spread the meaning of the apocalypse over a greater area than concentrating most of it in the Early Church.

You might read this thread that I authored:

**Preterism can’t be the full implications of the Apocalypse **

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=187618
 
According to Baxter’s book, “A Divine Revelation of Hell”, the Whore of Babylon is a very nasty demon that is waiting to be released.
 
in Rev. 18:3 is a good clue.
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For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
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Rev. 18:4 says:
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
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Rev. 18:6 say:
Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
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I think this is the key that supports my opinion - in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double

Consider this … the Statue of Liberty holds a cup in her hand (an oil cup used to light the way to her shores.)

also; think about these 2 streets and what they represent to the world.

  1. *]Wall Street
    *]Park Avenue

    Remember this is where many immigrants have entered into the USA (filled to her double??)

    remember 9/11 and the burning of the twin towers?

    … how about how it effected the stock market globally
 
stray said:
I think this is the key that supports my opinion - in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double

Consider this … the Statue of Liberty holds a cup in her hand (an oil cup used to light the way to her shores.)

also; think about these 2 streets and what they represent to the world.

  1. *]Wall Street
    *]Park Avenue

    Remember this is where many immigrants have entered into the USA (filled to her double??)

    remember 9/11 and the burning of the twin towers?

    … how about how it effected the stock market globally
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  1. 👍 I like that.

    The Rolling Stones released an album back in 1998 called ‘Bridges to Babylon’. Mick Jagger made the same comparisons. Specifically, that of NYC to Babylon.
 
stray said:
I think this is the key that supports my opinion - in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double

Consider this … the Statue of Liberty holds a cup in her hand (an oil cup used to light the way to her shores.)

also; think about these 2 streets and what they represent to the world.

  1. *]Wall Street
    *]Park Avenue

    Remember this is where many immigrants have entered into the USA (filled to her double??)

    remember 9/11 and the burning of the twin towers?

    … how about how it effected the stock market globally
Click to expand...

  1. Other than the fact that the whore of Babylon may have been around for a few milennia before today (where do you guys get this kind of stuff?!?) I gotta tell you I’m offended by your signature.

    The homeless live like that because of “the free food”?!?
 
I read this in Karl Keating’s book, Catholcism and Fundamentalism, that Martin Luther’s name comes out as 666. Interesting huh? But I think it was Nero’s name at the time John wrote it.
 
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