Social injustice - worst kind?

[AndyF]

Are you suggesting that murdering the unborn is a common good?

You would need to press the Church for it’s own definition if it isn’t the common good. But one thing for sure is it will strive for political correctness and say it’s not common evil.

There is a certain bias the Church reserves for society that is not based on it’s own precepts, a something special that society holds dear to it, even though it is capable of consciously and deliberately doing far more disruption and human carnage than any individual can.

Of all the blasphemy an individual can commit, society beats them all, and some.

AndyF

 

[strngrnrth]

abortion
the end of privacy
Worldwide, child enslavement, including child “marriage”, child “prostitution” and child drafting.

 

[Filius99993]

It usually means things the Republican Party is against.

Nah. I think most of the people on this forum aren’t really adherent to Conservative ideals, but rather are against things that are morally wrong. (Like abortion, contraception, gay marriage, etc.) Pretty much all of us are also against stuff like gay bashings, war, poverty, and the denial of actual civil rights.(Not LGTB stuff)

For me, anything having to do with violence and the denial of human life tops the list (I’m looking at YOU, Margaret Sanger). Because, unsurprisingly, they go hand in hand.

 

[brycelaliberte]

Abortion is easily the biggest issue of the age.

After that, and this is personal, but the indoctrinating of us school kids into HAVING to believe that homosexuality is a natural thing that must be accepted. And anyone who speaks out against it in a perfectly mild mannered way gets shouted down. Whatever happened to freedom of speech? Yes, even us who want to speak out against immoralities can use it, not just to forward immoral things.

Which follows into the very double standardized approach to separation of church and state. Yes, of course the church will stay out of the state, if the state stays out of the church. Which means the church doesn’t have to bend over to the state’s demands of moralizing immoral things.

Then, the demeaning of marriages and having children. So some people were so in love they had 8 kids. So? What do you have, 2 kids and a Mercedes? Ooh, joy.

Probably this is all because of the worship of money. I don’t know how, but it’s a conspiracy.

 

[Filius99993]

Abortion is easily the biggest issue of the age.

Yea, I’m glad you feel that way. I know a bunch of people (esp. relativist Protestants who are teenagers) our age who see abortion as a hit-and-miss sort of thing. The same thing goes with contraception.

Maybe, the biggest social injustice is the denial of TRUTH.

 

[AndyF]

abortion
the end of privacy
Worldwide, child enslavement, including child “marriage”, child “prostitution” and child drafting.

Ok. So we can see that these sins are not venial and the collective commits them. If they are then they sever the tie with God, because the other criteria also fit the circumstances.

Lets carry this further, keep in mind the plural aspects of the acts, and it isn’t even necessary to deviate from Dogma.

You are saying then because there are no double standards, then society should collectively go to hell, if the form in which it chose to sin is collective and it is found deserving of hell, given of course the same case of an individual committing the same crime and factors remaining equal.?

Here if you exonerate society you will see you need to do so for individuals as well, and vice versa.

This is why I have always said that proof of true Justice if hell contains societies who deservedly have been condemned en masse in the form they chose to sin. Given the long list of smiting, stats should indicate a few there, man,women and children.

This is one of the reasons the Church likes to downplay societies role in individual affairs, because it would bring to light the double handling of entities where scripture makes it clear they need to be handled exactly the same.

In the ideal world an individual’s individual’s evil is no more accepted than common evil.

AndyF

 

[mapleoak]

No

Society, as a fallible entity subject to God’s laws and “theoretically” bound to the Word defines what it wills since there is no institution with substance on earth that has the courage to voice an objection against it.

Yes, the Catholic Church positively condemns abortion.

So yes, it defines abortion has a common good if it enacts such laws.

And society is quite capable of legislating injustice.

As a rule Society doesn’t exact laws for common evil, and societal discernment on what it should do can only come from examination with the Word and consultation with the Church.

There are certain things which are intrinsic to man’s nature and which are defined as natural and moral goods. These natural and moral goods are discernable even in the absence of the Church. Even so, we have the benefit of the Church however for guidance. It is understood that the right to life is intrinsic to human nature and everyone has a right to not have that life taken from them unjustly such as with murder. The unborn are no exception.
There is absolutely no way to twist the massacre of the unborn in such a way as to portray it as a moral good.

 

[catharina]

First, I think it is noteworthy that no one has mentioned racism yet. This is a good sign. Second, it was good to see abortion as most people’s first choice.

When I see the question, I like to get beyond the politics. Most injustice occurs one on one, or on the community level. I have to say that poor treatment of the mental handicapped is right up there in my book as one of our greater problems. Likewise, social stratification where the poor are considered of less worth. I am reminded of the line from Fiddler on the Roof that even a poor tailor is entitled to some hapiness. The troubling thing is that when I think of the worse social injustices, I always think of things that I struggle with or have struggled with. Justice begins at home.

pnewton AND vern. Really I included racism in my post as an unstated part of BIGOTRY. Bigotry feeds social injustice in so many ways and yes, racism still exists in this nation. (In California, it seems to be thriving.)

 

[pnewton]

pnewton AND vern. Really I included racism in my post as an unstated part of BIGOTRY. Bigotry feeds social injustice in so many ways and yes, racism still exists in this nation. (In California, it seems to be thriving.)

I am sorry to hear that. California is a place unique to itself in many ways.

 

[PoliSciProf]

Like many of the previous posters, I would have to say abortion. Not only does it end an innocent life but often does so for the most selfish and cynical reasons.

 

[East_and_West]

You would need to press the Church for it’s own definition if it isn’t the common good. But one thing for sure is it will strive for political correctness and say it’s not common evil.

There is a certain bias the Church reserves for society that is not based on it’s own precepts, a something special that society holds dear to it, even though it is capable of consciously and deliberately doing far more disruption and human carnage than any individual can.

Of all the blasphemy an individual can commit, society beats them all, and some.

AndyF

What is the point you are trying to make? Abortion is evil.

 

[AndyF]

Yes, the Catholic Church positively condemns abortion.

OK, now what, we’re waiting…

That doesn’t satisfy Justice. If we are witnessing the completion of true Justice when a man gets condemned, then that is true Justice being played out to the end, all case factors remaining equal. Man has an interest in what the next guy’s just reward is. What your saying is my point about the Church’s stand-offish attitude toward society, in that the recognition of the evil is as far as it will take it in the Justice process, but it holds powers beyond it, “…what you retain will be retained.”.

Put into perspective, an anology would be that after a trial you are condemned for murder. On death row your daughter gets murdered by a pact of people who swore allegiance to each other to act out and become responsible for the next person’s actions. Here authorities will tell you that because there are 500 people, the scale doesn’t make it justifiable for all of them to get a death sentence. Reason will tell you that the contract
binds them to collective Justice, not individual.

Studying the anology, you object “Decrease my sentence”, but there are no ears to listen. You conclude that there is something wrong, that there is no such criteria for exemption, that all there is to be judged is to be an entity who can act and understands what is good and what is evil, and is bound by God’s laws, and you now discover the precepts of the law are being tweaked to suit the predicament and you would be correct. You say to yourself, “Surely a Devine Justice would have no such limiting factor, that it would look at the facts pertaining to culpability, that if it saw no bounds to smiting nations, thus recognizing it as collective bound to a singular culpability, what stops the Church today from excommunicating a nation, or withholding absolution from it.”

It is not man’s fault that he is a singular carbon unit. In Judicial context that becomes a technicality. He cannot disperse his culpability to constituent parts of his own body as can nation. Prior to any justice system being implemented, it would be glaringly obvious to predict that nation would come out favored if the dispersal was an accepted factor in it’s punishment.

As a result in regards to Justice, man is defaulted by the nation’s favored position.

These natural and moral goods are discernable even in the absence of the Church.

Initially conscience, but now additionally since Pentecost the Holy Spirit. The Church(Christ) then is necessary for accurate discernment.

There is absolutely no way to twist the massacre of the unborn in such a way as to portray it amoral good.

No argument here. You know it, I know it, we all know it. All we need now is the appropriate response from the Church that we are familiar with that suits the case of a stubborn entity that defies the will of God, says so boastfully, that has the advantage of thousands of consciences, that can debate the wrong and right of in collective discernment, has the Word at it’s disposal, etc…

So what would the Church do if this were a high profile individual?; it would summarily dispatch him to excommunicate land pronto.

AndyF

 

[AndyF]

What is the point you are trying to make? Abortion is evil.

We are in broader context discussing the conduct of society.

From a Judicial standpoint, society receives a favor reserved for it that individuals do not enjoy that have no bearing on merit or demerit. It is based I think on squeamishness of sorts. It says in effect, “Because you are many, I will not punish you all in a deserving sentence I would allow for individuals.” In hundreds of years of predicting God, it as come to realize this restriction is in effect, and it plays it for all it’s worth in it’s arrogance and boisterousness.

The Musketeer, “all for one, one for all” complex may elicit patriotic ideals, but it sees no bounds and allows society to take liberties and to dare that any institution do something about it’s behavior. This is why the Church scolds society and directs it to make the right choice to save the precious little ones, but the restriction will allow it to go no further.

As long as the Church presents a mild face, society will see abortion as an option, not a restriction. Societal Institution sees itself as a partner with the Church Institution, but in fact the Church is above society. So the Church unwilling to come out as a controlling Authority that is it’s mandate, hinders it’s persuasive powers in it’s reluctance. Sometimes the Church needs to roll up it’s sleeves, and “clear out the money changers.” for the sake of our children.

I think a decree that all Catholics are excommunicated in absentia if they vote for abortion would be in order.

AndyF

 

[East_and_West]

our children.

I think a decree that all Catholics are excommunicated in absentia if they vote for abortion would be in order.

AndyF

That’s cool with me!

 

[East_and_West]

Only their stance against abortion and gay marriage.

Actually no. The republican opposition to socialism follows closely the Church’s teachings on justice. The repbulican belief that a country has the right to defend itself is very similar to the Church’s idea of just war. The republican belief that religion should NOT be drummed out of society is similar to Catholic belief. In fact, I think every major republican/conservative principle is consonant with the teachings of the Chruch, while every single democratic/liberal principal is opposed to the teachings of the Church.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Actually no. The republican opposition to socialism follows closely the Church’s teachings on justice. The repbulican belief that a country has the right to defend itself is very similar to the Church’s idea of just war. The republican belief that religion should NOT be drummed out of society is similar to Catholic belief. In fact, I think every major republican/conservative principle is consonant with the teachings of the Chruch, while every single democratic/liberal principal is opposed to the teachings of the Church.

Not to mention that many of the social programs near and dear to their hearts turn out to be counter-productive.

 

[goofyjim]

Actually no. The republican opposition to socialism follows closely the Church’s teachings on justice. The repbulican belief that a country has the right to defend itself is very similar to the Church’s idea of just war. The republican belief that religion should NOT be drummed out of society is similar to Catholic belief. In fact, I think every major republican/conservative principle is consonant with the teachings of the Chruch, while every single democratic/liberal principal is opposed to the teachings of the Church.

So I suppose every Catholic is required to be 100% in line with the Republican party.

 

[rlg94086]

So I suppose every Catholic is required to be 100% in line with the Republican party.

It isn’t a requirement…just a logical result.

 

[goofyjim]

It isn’t a requirement…just a logical result.

I find it very illogical and disagree with the Republicans on a host of things. If that makes me less of a Catholic as a result so be it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I find it very illogical and disagree with the Republicans on a host of things. If that makes me less of a Catholic as a result so be it.

I disagree with some Republicans on a host of things. Very little with some. Repubs vary, and the party is just a human institution that cannot, in any way, be identified with the Church, which is a Divine institution. Right now, though, the Repub party is not dedicated to abortion, whereas the Dem party is utterly devoted to it.