Socialism and Catholicism

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The problem with being a Catholic and adhering to socialism is that socialism and other far left ideologies like say communism are built upon materialism as a foundation. Socialism and communism as ideologies are against people owning virtually anything. The Catholic position contradicts that.

Then you also have the problem that socialism contradicts the church’s position on economic parity. The church acknowledges that some will be poor and that some will have wealth. What matters is how we treat the less fortunate and that those with wealth commit to charity. It certainly is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven, but that doesn’t mean the church supports the state taking everything you own.

There’s also a problem with authority between socialism and a Catholic worldview. Socialists and communists ultimately rely upon primacy of the state, the Church as an institution obviously is never going to agree to that because it takes one down a path of making the state and its actors deities in and of themselves.
 
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OnAJourney said:
The problem with being a Catholic and adhering to socialism is that socialism and other far left ideologies like say communism are built upon materialism as a foundation. Socialism and communism as ideologies are against people owning virtually anything. The Catholic position contradicts that.
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When you define socialism so narrowly then it does not apply to many of the policies that some people call socialism, such as universal health care. That is definitely not condemned by Church teaching.
Then you also have the problem that socialism contradicts the church’s position on economic parity.
The church acknowledges that some will be poor and that some will have wealth.
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But the Church does not condemn policies aimed at reducing the disparity. It would not be a terrible thing if the poor were less poor.
What matters is how we treat the less fortunate and that those with wealth commit to charity. It certainly is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven, but that doesn’t mean the church supports the state taking everything you own.
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Nor do policies like universal heath care require the state taking everything you own.
There’s also a problem with authority between socialism and a Catholic worldview. Socialists and communists ultimately rely upon primacy of the state…
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This is not a fair characterization of everything that some people call socialism.
 
Universal healthcare isn’t socialism, and neither are other welfare state programs.

I’m not addressing points with regards to people who don’t understand what socialism is and isn’t. I’m talking about people who are and have read works of socialist and Marxist literature.
 
Socrates92 said:
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po18guy:
Nothing of this earth is defensible
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Doesn’t that basically make you a manichean? (Material things = evil)
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No. You took quite a leap and overshot.

All things were created good, very good. Earthly things are fallen and incomplete. (This is my understanding of @po18guy’s statement.) In God’s plan they will be brought to perfection and fullness. This is very good.
 
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NoelFitz said:
I read recently an article by Trent Horn and Catherine Pakaluk (Jan 16, 2020) 'Can a Catholic Be a Socialist?
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I read the summary but did not go on to purchase the entire article.

It would be interesting to know whether the focus remained on warnings of government ownership and control of means of production, or

whether he read all the way to the end of Rerum Novarum, then finished off his article with proposals on how distributism might be effectively accomplished, in today’s economy as the approved Catholic response.
 
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I agree with what you are saying, which is why I advocate for Social Democracy, like that in the Scandinavian Countries. Not fully Socialist, but neither fully Capitalist, but in the middle, allowing free markets to thrive while having a social safety net to provide for the poor and balance out the economy so that its not leaning heavily on the side of the rich.
But thats my opinion and i think it works well with Catholic Faith.

God Bless
 
po18guy said:
In truth, collectivism is a symptom of the downfall of western civilization, i.e. broken human nature. What comes after is very sobering to ponder.
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What is collectivism? Can you give examples?

It sounds like you are saying it’s something that happens as a result or response to breakdown (sin?), and that it is bad, and leads to something worse.
 
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Somewhere we must find a middle ground between all the isms.
Politically speaking, the polar opposites between the far left and the far right try to pull all of us in the middle their way, while demonizing the other side.
It is possible to possess stuff and still give of our time, talents, and treasure who need our time, talents, and treasure.
 
And I would agree, while Social Democracy in theory is great, the outcome can be different for outcomes have so many unanticipated factors. If we also look at the Nordic Countries, we can see huge issues in migration that has affected them as well, especially in policing, but the average wage of police officer is $51000 US Dollars, which is above what police in many areas make even in the US. I think if the US were to apply the better parts of Social Democracy to itself we would see a tremendous growth in happiness in the the American people especially with how sustainable the US is in terms of natural resources and food. Sweden, for example, doesn’t have near as close to the natural resources and agriculture that the US has, so we would see a far different result.
And there are different theories on how to run a Social Democracy and I don’t think it would be a bad idea to try it in the richest country on earth. Ideas such as an Universal Basic Income and such.
But I am not gonna act as if I don’t know there wouldn’t still be problems for no economic theory is perfect except for the Beatific Vision

God Bless
 
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Whats worse is Democratic Socialism, where there are ideas of pitting classes, races, sexes, etc, etc. against one another for political gain. They stir up the pot when there is no pot to stir.
 
Limankaro said:
This is incorrect, the average income for Swedish police is $42000
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That is incorrect. Just doing a basic search on average wage for police pulls up numerous salary raters that show the lowest is 38000 SEK a month which comes in at around 4000 US dollars a month. you multiply that by twelve and get over 48000 US dollars a year. I am not sure where you are getting your facts from.
 
None of these links are working. But from 2017-2020 a change may have happened. The site I posted shows a higher amount being earned. It is possible in the last few years an overall raise may have happened. But yeah the sites you referred to don’t take me anywhere and just show an error screen

edit: the second link started working thank you
 
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The first link shows an average salary of 33400 KR, equaling 3506 USD, which translates to 42072 USD a year, on par with the average wage for US police officers. Using the multiple sources, we see and average wage of 42000-50000 KR for Swedish Police Officers. Thats comparable to US officers.
 
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LittleFlower378 said:
Whats worse is Democratic Socialism, where there are ideas of pitting classes, races, sexes, etc, etc. against one another for political gain. They stir up the pot when there is no pot to stir.
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I don’t think that’s a fair or accurate description. People should remember that the modern union movement in America was led by the Reuthers, who were democratic socialists. They were much more involved in letting all come together with their interests seen to than in pitting people or classes against each other.
 
Yes, getting people together for their own cause without having the proper means. Another words if your starting Anarchy just to win the election and cause trouble, then what good does that do? Creating false conflicts such as starting race wars when there is not institutional racism is evil.
 
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That is a good point. But one thing to consider is the social benefits that come within Sweden that to me, outweighs the tax. For instance, single payer healthcare. While that typically in the US cones out in the check through an employer program it still raises the amount that the person is paying close to Sweden. For example, my paycheck through my employer is about 25% of my income is to taxes and insurance and state taxes and social security and medicare. So it almost becomes comparable. Plus the other benefits a Swedish citizen gets through their taxes makes it worth it to me and to the community. But thats my opinion
 
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