Socialized healthcare

[goofyjim]

I repeat we arenot all called to be business owners. We are only called to contribute to the best of our ability and the only one to judge whether we have done that is God alone not anyone down here.

 

[vern_humphrey]

And I haven’t attacked you. Now who is taking it personal.

Then who said this?

Gee my dad was conservative but he didn’t complain half as much as you conservatives here do.

But again my dad did all those things on a job without creating other jobs. You place some more importance on the guy who creates the jobs while I put us on an equal playing field.

And that’s wrong. Those who do more should have more credit.

My dad WAS one of the hardest working among us that you keep on denying yet he never created one job. He did create wealth by investing his income.

No doubt, he did – but I’ll bet if you ask him you’ll find he worked more than 40 hours. How, for example, did he know where to invest? How did he manage his investments? I find that takes a lot of time.

 

[cynic]

If everyone only worked 40 hours a week, who would create the jobs?

There probably wouldn’t be any. But that’s no reason to call people who do work 40 lazy, or imply it. I doubt they work 80 hour weeks conitinuously though, and If **everyone **worked that long, all the time, then how would anyone meet a potential spouse and marry. For eg. Or do just about anything else in life.

 

[vern_humphrey]

There probably wouldn’t be any. But that’s no reason to call people who do work 40 lazy, or imply it.

When they call for others to pay the freight on the programs they advocate, I think it’s quite fair to ask them to pull their share of the load.

I doubt they work 80 hour weeks conitinuously though, and If **everyone **worked that long, all the time, then how would anyone meet a potential spouse and marry. For eg. Or do just about anything else in life.

Funny how people used to do all that when the 12-hour day was standard.

 

[goofyjim]

We’re getting way off track but if you want to place importance on someone, look at my former example of Circuit City. They did away with commission first driving many an employee away. Then last year they let go thehigher paid floor employees and told them to come back in 6 months at a lower pay. If there is noone on the floor to sell the products then the guy up top derives no income either. So in many respects the top job is just as dependent on the guy at the bottom of the ladder.

 

[vern_humphrey]

We’re getting way off track but if you want to place importance on someone, look at my former example of Circuit City. They did away with commission first driving many an employee away. Then last year they let go thehigher paid floor employees and told them to come back in 6 months at a lower pay. If there is noone on the floor to sell the products then the guy up top derives no income either. So in many respects the top job is just as dependent on the guy at the bottom of the ladder.

Sounds like a self-correcting error to me. If they lose money as a result of their decisions, they get fired, no?

 

[cynic]

When they call for others to pay the freight on the programs they advocate, I think it’s quite fair to ask them to pull their share of the load.

So everyone must be contributing an equal amount in cash terms to be considered pulling their share? That means somone on a low wage could be paying away their whole earnings in tax. You ignore that fact that without employees nobody would be able to contribute anything.

Funny how people used to do all that when the 12-hour day was standard.

No 12 hour day, 6 day weeks do not leave much time for anything else, considering people like to do frivolous things like eating and sleeping.

 

[vern_humphrey]

So everyone must be contributing an equal amount in cash terms to be considered pulling their share? That means somone on a low wage could be paying away their whole earnings in tax.

Sounds fair to me.

You ignore that fact that without employees nobody would be able to contribute anything.

Not at all – there are plenty of mom-and-pop businesses.

No 12 hour day, 6 day weeks do not leave much time for anything else, considering people like to do frivolous things like eating and sleeping.

Yet people did it – and in my family, many of them managed to have families of 10 to 13 kids, and support them all.

 

[cynic]

Sounds fair to me.

thought you’d like the sound of that:yup:

Yet people did it – and in my family, many of them managed to have families of 10 to 13 kids, and support them all.

And I’m guessing they met when they were young, before starting work like that.

 

[pathia]

I’d much rather work 40hours a week and spend time with my family and loved ones now.

What is the point of saving and saving and working yourself to death to only see the fortune of it when you are too old to be young and enjoy it anymore? When your friends and loved ones have drifted away, because you only care about work. Your family will mostly be dead, aged away, leaving you to your work, everyone will become distant.

If you try to save everything so you can retire ‘easy’. There won’t be much left to retire to, it will have all passed you by while you toiled away endlessly, ignoring all the friendship and happiness around you.

 

[cynic]

:tsktsk: that kind of thinking means that you’re lazy

 

[BamaRider]

Vern never said anybody workin a 40 hour week is lazy, what he did say was if ya wanna break into the higher echlons of society, you’re are gonna hafta to pay the price, and that means workin nights and weekends.

If you’re content to work 40 a week, and feel the trade off is worth it, then God Bless ya, you’re entitled to feel that way, but don’t hold back or try to punish those with a different outlook, all those folks want is to be left alone, but every time they turn around someone has them in the crosshairs.

Now how ya wanna play your cards, is up to you. But it irks conservatives when someone workin a 40 hour week, and all he’s gonna work, moans and groans about how some guys get all the breaks, and when they reach the point of reaping that successs the guys left behind, feel good when the govt jacks up their taxes.

I’m tired of people saying the Bush tax cuts are only for the rich, I benefited from those tax cuts, and I can promise ya I ain’t rich LOL. If those cuts are not renewed millions of American families are gonna get fleeced, why does that make some of y’all feel good?

Unless you’re born into it, you’re not gonna make a million dollars a year at a 40 hour week job. At least I dunno anyone that ever did. I come from a family of blue collar folks, and none of them ever felt like they were cheated.

If you don’t like the cards you’re dealt, then you have the right to fold that hand, and get a new one next round. If you like it, play em I say, but don’t fold and then complain about the guys that stayed in and won the pot! THEY took the risk, and should be allowed to reap the rewards. What some of y’all profess is just like guys at a poker table. Can you imagine the guys that folded telling the winner he needs to share the pot with them, because they started the hand with him, and a “few of those chips in that pot were mine at one time.” The thing is the winner of that pot probably bluffed 2-3 better hands into folding. Its called life.

 

[ribozyme]

If you don’t like the cards you’re dealt, then you have the right to fold that hand, and get a new one next round. If you like it, play em I say, but don’t fold and then complain about the guys that stayed in and won the pot! THEY took the risk, and should be allowed to reap the rewards. What some of y’all profess is just like guys at a poker table. Can you imagine the guys that folded telling the winner he needs to share the pot with them, because they started the hand with him, and a “few of those chips in that pot were mine at one time.” The thing is the winner of that pot probably bluffed 2-3 better hands into folding. Its called life.

I totally agree with you. There are some hands that I want to be discarded. In fact, I do believe the bad draws should be discarded.

While political opposition to the creation of embryos to extract embryonic stem cells remains strong the rate of destruction of embryos is already high without the use of embryos for this purpose. More embryos get created than used for a few reasons. First off, women trying to start a pregnancy using IVF get extra embryos created because they don’t know how many attempts will be needed or even how many fertilizations will succeed in creating viable embryos.

Also, the development of tests (genetic and otherwise) for checking on the health of embryos leads to the identification of unhealthy embryos before implantation. These tests are becoming more powerful and as a result many embryos can be judged to either be unlikely to start a pregnancy or to result in birth defects.

The development of increasingly more powerful genetic tests for pre-implantation genetic diagnosis (PIGD or PGD) of embryos will lead prospective parents to become much more selective in choosing embryos. As the significance of more genetic variations becomes known people will have far more reasons to choose between different embryos. The trend is going to be toward the creation of far larger numbers of embryos so as to increase the odds of finding an embryo will be found that contains the best combination of genes from the two parents. Basically, people will throw the genetic dice more times in order to better their odds.

futurepundit.com/archives/004889.html

But do you know what utilitarian ethics is? I do not know why you do not find the goal of reducing suffering magnanimous.

Unless you’re born into it, you’re not gonna make a million dollars a year at a 40 hour week job. At least I dunno anyone that ever did. I come from a family of blue collar folks, and none of them ever felt like they were cheated.

At least you acknowledge that some people are born into positions they did not merit.

 

[BamaRider]

Ribo made this comment-

At least you acknowledge that some people are born into positions they did not merit.

---

How do they not merit it? I say just lucky genes. I don’t have a problem with this as long as they stay outta MY business, and not try to tell me they know what’s best for me and try to pass laws to get more out of my pocket- in other words-ELITIST.

And I’m glad you and I agree on the bad hand. If you’re holding one, get rid of it, if ya believe in it, play it. And for the guys that stay in-its called LIFE. Might win, might lose, no gurantees. If on the wrong end, don’t despair, always another to be dealt.

Funny how life can be broken down into a poker metaphor .

 

[ribozyme]

.

And I’m glad you and I agree on the bad hand. If you’re holding one, get rid of it, if ya believe in it, play it. And for the guys that stay in-its called LIFE. Might win, might lose, no gurantees. If on the wrong end, don’t despair, always another to be dealt.

Funny how life can be broken down into a poker metaphor .

But we do not have the ability to do that yet. I regret that many aspects of life itself is left to chance. Why should life be controlled by stochastic processes? I personally want to eliminate that element in certain human affairs. Yes, I do hope more bad hands would be discarded in the future as this is happening currently with our rather primitive technology.

I only regret that people of low economic means might not have the ability to discard bad hands using IVF + PIGD.

I do appreciate your apt metaphor about life.

 

[cynic]

Vern never said anybody workin a 40 hour week is lazy, what he did say was if ya wanna break into the higher echlons of society, you’re are gonna hafta to pay the price, and that means workin nights and weekends.

I think vern **is **saying that working 8-5 is lazy because you either aren’t “paying your share” of the tax burden the poor/needy require from the government, or you aren’t able to give as much as you could to charity.

 

[vern_humphrey]

thought you’d like the sound of that:yup:

And I’m guessing they met when they were young, before starting work like that.

I’m guessing they worked that hard before they met – one great grandfather was a trapper, another a cooper, another a ship builder, and the last a farmer.

 

[goofyjim]

Again take the retail example. If there were noone to work at the bottom of the ladder to sell the products the economy would also not run too well meaning no jobs. So EVERY position is important in the grand scheme of things. STOP placing a higher importance on the MAMMON.

 

[goofyjim]

For allthose who think you have to be wealthy to be considered important, scripture quite clearly mentions a little prayer that I lived by before I even read it. Do not make me wealthy because I might forget where it came from and do not make me poor because I might complain too much. I think that is what it says. It’s been ahwile since I read the exact passage but it is a little prayer asking for neither wealth nor poverty.

And I have just confirmed it: Proverbs 30:8,9

 

[vern_humphrey]

I think vern **is **saying that working 8-5 is lazy because you either aren’t “paying your share” of the tax burden the poor/needy require from the government, or you aren’t able to give as much as you could to charity.

No, I’m saying that lazy people clamor for someone else to pay the freight, and never look to themselves to earn and pay more.