Sociological reasons for lower Mass attendance

[OraLabora]

Why would information kill religion?

Because much of the information out there on the 'net is bad information, and outright wrong. People are befuddled, and find it difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff because critical thinking skills aren’t really taught, in fact universities and colleges are caught in the same trap.

Inevitably some out-of-context memes resonate with good people for the wrong reasons, and it’s downhill from there.

The Internet is orders of magnitude faster at disseminating information, including false information, compared to the printing press. Whereas in the past, not everyone had access to a printer, it cost $ to print up tracts, pamphlets and books and then distribute them. Now anyone with an Internet connection and a cheap laptop can spout nonsense and make it look good at the speed of a mouse click: anti-vaxxers, anti-Catholics, radical traditionalists, radical liberals, and certain politicians, etc.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I think in 500 years historians will point to this moment in time as the decline of religion in the world, and the cause will be the spread of information

Except that what you’re calling “information” is not necessarily fact.

 

[Genesis315]

But that’s the point–with society in upheaval, people needed the Church to be a rock. That’s why it had such appeal after the two world wars. It weathered it all. However, during and after Vatican II, it underwent constant, disorienting change right when stability was needed most. Nobody wants to devote their lives or make major sacrifices or major life decisions based on something that may be reversed tomorrow.

We forgot that tradition as tradition has its own value–especially since everything else is intertwined with it. Just because something is changeable, doesn’t mean it is fine to change it. The Fathers knew this and it was a bedrock principle of the Church until recently.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

How about another factor that any help or hurt? Time for reflection. We all are too busy, too distracted with “the world”.

Yes, I think we are retiring our brains to get instant feedback, any kind of feedback, regardless of the quality of it.

Also a lot of people are afraid of silence and aloneness.

When I occasionally wade into the swamp that is the You Tube com boxes, it’s really scary how many teens and even younger are afraid. Of the world, of other people, of leaving their rooms, of growing up, of the age and vastness of outer space (no I am NOT making this one up), and they’re scared this life is all there is.
Some of them turn it aside with jokes, but when I was a kid, my friends and I looked forward to growing up and taking out place in the world. Of course, a nuclear war might have ended all that, but we didn’t live with rank fear these kiddos do.

And it’s interesting that with the decline of religion in society, there has been an sharp uptick in anxiety, depression and addiction.

 

[edwest211]

That is false. Do some historical research. Those outside the Church attacked it, they attacked our neighborhoods and they attacked right living with sexual perversion in “alternative lifestyles” and through falsely named Adult Bookstores. Inside the Church, Pope Paul VI had to deal with radicals in the Church who wanted a change to priestly celibacy, he had to deal with radicals outside the Church a year later (1968) when they were having their sexual pervert revolution.

Pope Paul VI was the rock in 1967 and 1968. In 1968, within 24 hours after the publication of Humanae Vitae, he was ‘corrected’ by theologians going far beyond their authority when they took out a full page ad in the New York Times to say that artificial contraception is sometimes necessary. In the 1970s, young seminarians were taught Humanae Vitae but they were also taught a lie: that the Church would change her teaching about artificial contraception. So, when they became priests and were asked about artificial contraception, they did not tell the truth. They told their parishioners it was ‘a personal conscience matter.’ 100% false.

Society in upheaval does not happen by itself. Only people can cause upheaval for others. Those people wanted to harm the Church and confuse Catholics in the pews.

 

[Inquisitor85]

My point is, society was already changing from tight knit communities towards more geographically spread associations. If things had have remained the same then the same problems would ensue. The articles author briefly touches on that point.

“Many Catholics in the USA, the U.K., and around the world lived in such densely networked Catholic communities up until the 1950s. Our communities today are nothing like so closely knit. This is because of many factors, including the mixing of the population by the World Wars (not only war service, but subsequent migration), the destruction of urban, often ethnic-based communities in the context of suburbanization and slum-clearance, increasing numbers of young people going to university, greater opportunities for travel, the rise of commuting, and television. Our ideas and impressions, our friendships and our self-understanding, come less from within the community and more from outside it.”

So as it says, the decline of religion as a major force in peoples lives was already ongoing prior to V2, whether V2 was a part of increasing the decline is certainly up for debate but saying it was the sole factor is entirely disingenuous.

We forgot that tradition as tradition has its own value–especially since everything else is intertwined with it. Just because something is changeable, doesn’t mean it is fine to change it. The Fathers knew this and it was a bedrock principle of the Church until recently.

However tradition for the sake of tradition is largely pointless. Most traditions are starting to break down, be they religious or secular, as people wonder whether they are still applicable to the modern age. Simply stating words to the effect of “that’s how it’s always been done” will not cut it anymore, people more than anything need a reason to believe you.

I’ve said it before and I’ll doubtless need to say it again, preaching in Latin from on high will get you nowhere in the modern world.

 

[LateCatholic]

But the sport is in trouble. Although a record number of people enrolled in Learn To Skate programs around the U.S., we hear on all sides and see for ourselves at our rinks that most of these people don’t continue the sport past the most basic skills levels.

Interesting about figure skating. But this is happening in all sports.
I think in the end information is a good thing, but it uncovers the warts first before it helps.
In the end, isn’t it better that concussions in football are getting attention? To your point, football participation has also dropped.
But I think this is a short-term issue. In the end, reality will take over, the blemishes will be healed, and steady-state will be reached.

I liken this to the pedophilia scandal. The Internet, in my opinion, has made us all aware of this horrible scandal. If the Church does the right thing, it will heal. Same with science, homophobia, sexism, and so forth. In my opinion, if conservative members continue to fight reality, things will continue to get worse.

 

[edwest211]

The “modern age” is a fiction created by those wishing to exploit others. Family, community and being a good neighbor mattered in the 1950s and still matters today. I ask all reading to honestly examine their lives and ask themselves: Is this better? Am I somehow more free?

The internet has a lot of information but the ability of anyone to process that information has not increased at all compared to before the internet. To be properly understood and accepted, all information has to be verifiable. Is that true on the internet? No. I can read a half dozen different posts on a topic and get “opinions.” No one can make good decisions based on opinions. Get facts. Get the accurate information you need, not a bunch of trivia.

 

[edwest211]

“conservative members” are fighting what exactly?

 

[Inquisitor85]

The “modern age” is a fiction created by those wishing to exploit others.

That’s an interesting viewpoint, care to expand on who is doing the exploiting?

Family, community and being a good neighbor mattered in the 1950s and still matters today.

True, to a point.

I ask all reading to honestly examine their lives and ask themselves: Is this better? Am I somehow more free?

Yes, unequivocally yes, today is better than the 1950’s, there are major issues for sure, but it is better and myself and those I love are more free.

The internet has a lot of information but the ability of anyone to process that information has not increased at all compared to before the internet. To be properly understood and accepted, all information has to be verifiable. Is that true on the internet? No.

I completely agree, the internet is a fantastic resource, when used with appropriately with understanding.

I can read a half dozen different posts on a topic and get “opinions.” No one can make good decisions based on opinions. Get facts. Get the accurate information you need, not a bunch of trivia.

This is where we part ways, finding others opinions that I don’t agree with is valuable to me. It challenges my viewpoint, and forces me to either harden my position or adapt it to take into account others views.

 

[catholic03]

Personally, I would stay away from LifeSiteNews. It is very critical of the hierarchy.

I think that the reasons for lower mass attendance are because of secularism. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI made it clear that moral evils come from relativism which is a movement away from the truth. Many cultural Catholics in Europe and North America have their children nominally raised Catholic and sacramentally initiated into the Church.

The children grow up and remain cultural Catholics or leave altogether. Only a small few fully come back to the Church.

The moral relativistic ideas that plague the Western world have seen many people fall to the atheistic relativistic ideas.

Then some youth think the Church is boring and so become an Evangelical Protestant.

Low Mass attendance is ultimately caused by atheism and relativism.

 

[edwest211]

That last sentence contains no historical references. Things don’t change overnight.

 

[catholic03]

It happened over time. The Pope Emeritus affirmed this.

 

[edwest211]

Regarding your last two sentences, spiritual living is not about math. Other views need truth to underpin them. If I see no truth, I cannot accept them.

 

[Inquisitor85]

Ok, well then you’d need to define what truth is to you.

 

[Peeps]

In my opinion, if conservative members continue to fight reality, things will continue to get worse.

No one can call the majority of figure skaters “conservative.” Quite the opposite. Many adult skaters are quite liberal socially and politically. My husband competed in one adult competition a few years ago where NO MAN in the locker room was straight except him!

And yet, these social and political liberals are trying to speak up and point out that SafeSport’s draconian policies do NOT protect children, but instead, protect ADULTS from being sued.

Here’s an example of “draconian policies.” My daughter has coached skating teams for 16 years, 10 of those years with the same skating club. She is loved and respected by her students, the parents, and fellow coaches.

Recently a parent invited her to come to her vacation home on the coast and join her family for al little R and R before the competitive skating season begins. The parent happens to be quite wealthy, and enjoys opening up her vacation home on the beach to her friends and acquaintances, and has been very kind to all the coaches in the rink.

My daughter was thrilled and agreed to join the family for a few days. She purchased her airline ticket and was looking forward to a little weekend getaway.

THEN…one of the coaches pointed out the latest “rule” from SafeSport–a coach is NOT allowed under any circumstances to stay in the same house with a student, even if the student’s parents are present and agree to the overnight visit.

So my daughter had to call the parents and let them know that she can’t come–they were flabbergasted and just a little insulted that SafeSport doesn’t consider them capable of making decisions about their own guests and entertaining.

And my daughter has to call the airline and plead with them to please allow her to use her ticket fee as a credit towards a future flight somewhere. She isn’t hopeful of getting the money back, but perhaps other sports coaches have been burned by this same onerous rule and have asked for the same favor, and so the airline might be extending a courtesy. But probably not.

I would not be at all surprised to learn that SafeSport has made a rule that skating coaches cannot be in the rink with the students during practices, lessons, or competitions. After all, quite a few of the sexual assaults charges have occurred on the ice during a freestyle practice while dozens of other skaters, coaches, parents, and rink staff are in the building and watching the practice.

Amazing what a sexual deviant can accomplish, isn’t it? It’s like they have supernatural powers to perpetrate their despicable acts even when surrounded by other people! Of course, when calling a student '“honey” or “dear” is considered a sexual assault, almost all of us have been guilty of sexual perversion towards children!

 

[ATraveller]

In my opinion, if conservative members continue to fight reality, things will continue to get worse.

You mean “liberals” are fighting reality. Because if we’re using hard facts and numbers, liberalisation has decimated Mainline Protestantism. Once the largest Protestant group in America, it’s now eclipsed by what is loosely called “Evangelicalism”. Yet, pro-liberalization advocates continue to shout “change or die” to paraphrase the Episcopalian bishop Shelby Spong. But the data shows it’s actually “change and die quickly”.

Remaining traditional and orthodox doesn’t guarantee growth but going the way of Mainline Protestantism is inflicting a terminal decline onto a denomination.

Now if they truly believe in those changes, then that’s fine. But don’t sell liberalisation as a church growing strategy that works. That’s just dishonesty.

The point of the Church is to serve God. It’s not a corporation. It’s not about being popular. It doesn’t belong to humans. If one doesn’t believe in God or thinks God is just a larger version of a human being, then the concept of what the Church is supposed to be is going to be difficult to understand.

 

[edwest211]

Very well said. Man has two choices: follow God or not. But when man relies on other fallible men to guide him and/or becomes a kind of god, then trouble will follow.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

conservative members continue to fight reality,

Okay. Finally we’re at the crux of it.

Reality = things you approve of.
Information = opinions you support written down

 

[Tis_Bearself]

preaching in Latin from on high

I’ve yet to see anyone in the Catholic church ever do this, including at a Mass said in Latin. The preaching is in the vernacular. As in, English.

Where do you get these ideas that we “preach in Latin from on high”? That’s just weird.