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Johan
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Its false gospel.
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mcq72
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thank you for clarification Johan…don’t want to misrepresent your good points.
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ArchStanton
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1 Cor 15:1-9 [ The Gospel Teaching] Now I am reminding you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you , which you indeed received and in which you also stand. Through it you are also being saved , if you hold fast to the word I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I handed on to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures; that he was buried ; that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures; that he appeared to Cephas, then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep . After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one born abnormally, he appeared to me. For I am the least of the apostles, not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
We believe all of it Johan [especially since 1 Corinthians was written by a Catholic!]
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MagdalenaRita
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Not according to the Scripture. Faith without works is dead. Better yet, in the words of a protestant pastor, faith that does not contain corresponding action, is dead. If it is dead then there is no trust, there is no belief. It’s dead.
Many sola fide-ists believe they are prophets.
Yes, but nowhere do those verses say faith alone. The full quote in Phillipians 3:
through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith; that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
and when quoting Hebrews chapter 10 do not forget this verse:
let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works
Catholics agree we need faith, have to have faith, and live by faith. Just not faith alone.
God’s daily grace gives us the ability to persevere. We do not boast of anything we do because we do nothing without God’s grace.
Quoting Bible verses out of context will only end in agreement that they are verses from the Bible and that we believe them also. Catholics believe every word of the Bible. We just do not accept what you say they mean. That is why I ask to please do not forget other Bible verses, otherwise just pulling a Bible verse up here and there out of context is what I heard someone else call verse slinging.
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mcq72
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Not per only definition of faith in the bible , found in Hebrews11:1
“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”
Faith is the, "“ground, basis, foundation, support.” Works are not our support.
"… show(s)the power of “unwavering confidence in God” , before i step one foot forward.
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/hebrews/11.htm
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Johan
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Do you believe that this is what saves you, that this is what will bring you to Heaven? If the answer is “no,” my point as adequately demonstrated already.
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ArchStanton
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I see the goalposts moving Johan… I responded to your statement that we believe a false gospel…reread 1 Corinthians 15:1-9
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mcq72
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The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.”
Excuse me , what was the question ?
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ArchStanton
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I will fear no evil AMEN!!!
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mcq72
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lol…hey , I resemble that remark…I was going to clarify “prophet” (proclaimer of the gosple), but so be it…would you prefer a shining “light” , or His finger on the Earth, …His monstrance even, temple, His living stone…faith apprehends the evidence, beyond presumption.
Christians are disciples, to do as the (M) master, and even greater works:
“The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,… provide for those who grieve to comfort all who mourn,” Isaiah 61
Please tell me a Christian is not by defintion a prophet of sorts:“a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God”…google defintion lol…otherwise discipleship for what?
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Johan
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Faith without works is “dead” in the same sense that sin was dead without the Law (Rom. 7:8). It means that faith without works is inactive and does not contain the element of trust that is essential. But it still does not follow that faith means something else than faith. So when Jesus said that the work that God requires is to believe in the one He has sent, He means precisely that.
Really? I have never cherished that belief. I will never try to defend myself before Christ by pointing at my “miracles.” So would you care to substantiate that claim?
But that is just the ordinary Catholic straw man. The Evangelical expression “faith alone” does not mean that we only believe and do not strive to serve God through love. It means that we do not think that we have an inherent righteousness (we are sinners saved by grace alone) but that He credits us with righteousness through faith alone (apart from any works we do).
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Johan
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It is hardly to move the goalposts to ask if you believe that you are saved by that Gospel, since the Gospel is a soteriological message.
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. (1 Cor. 15:2)
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ArchStanton
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I already told you that Catholics believe 1 Corinthians [and the whole Bible]. You are the newcomer with a ‘different message’ and we know what the bible says about that.
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Johan
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So let me ask you one more time: do you believe that you are saved because Jesus was crucified for your sins and was raised from the dead on the third day?
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ArchStanton
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YOU made the bold statement that we follow a false gospel…back it up with facts please
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MagdalenaRita
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Yes He absolutely does. No doubt about it. He said it He meant it, though that is not ALL He said. He said a lot more than that. He also asks us to keep His commandments, to persevere if we want to enter heaven, to sell all that belongs to us and give the money to the poor, to feed and clothe the hungry, to visit the sick, to pray, to confess, to forgive, to cut out our eyes if they cause us to sin, to be baptized, to eat His body and drink His blood… He gave us quite a bit of instructions on what to do to enter heaven, not just one or even a couple of verses, but so much more. Not that we boast or walk with Christ of our own ability but by the grace of God.
You have never heard someone claim they know when the end is coming, or say, “I had a word from Christ to give to you”. That is a sentence you hear alot, “I had a word from God today”.
One protestant female pastor, said we need to obey the prophets of our time. I won’t list who she said those prophets were but they are some pretty famous televangelists. And then there are women who claim to be prophetesses.
It is not a straw man. It is just Biblical. No where does the Bible say we are credited with righeousness through faith alone. It just isn’t there, no matter how much we want to believe it is.
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Johan
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The non-assurance of salvation that permeates Catholicism is “fact” enough. Your apparent refusal to ask my simple question is a case in point. It is a focus on what we do, what is in our heart, that we should overcome, that we should be perfect, and so on, instead of the finished salvific work of Christ, His righteousness, the decisive victory that He has won, and the perfection that He has achieved. He did not come to make His people savable, but to save them. Everything else is a false gospel.
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ArchStanton
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This isn’t the ‘other site’ Johan where you have a cheering section… you made a statement so back it up please
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mcq72
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lol…it is
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ArchStanton
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What IS there is this… This IS my body
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