Sola scriptura and corrections?

[TULIPed]

Thanks @Lenten_ashes! I am sure that they were well catechized (my friend certainly is). The issue was with me entirely. Thanks again for your kind response.

 

[mcq72]

Claiming…
Is Christ who he says he is, or is he not?

Right, and for the most part, Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants say correctly who Christ is. To a non believer no confusion here, something they must receive or reject.

If we can take Christ at his word, then we have ONE body united in him

Again, pretty basic (no confusion) to a non believer, that Christians are baptized into the church community, the body of Christ.

Now to visible authority and the different magisteriums, churches etc., yes, there is confusion or discernment needed (again) by a new believer. My premise stands that this has always been the case, since the fall, and there being a Catholic church has not changed it.

And again, putting forth Christ to a non believer is more effectual than stressing a particular church

 

[brianjmc1]

Again, pretty basic (no confusion) to a non believer, that Christians are baptized into the church community, the body of Christ.

Is baptism a regeneration into the body of Christ? Is it a symbolic outward expression of an internal decision? Infant baptism or baptism at age a reasoning or baptism is not necessary…

My premise stands that this has always been the case

Not for roughly the first 1,000 years or half of the history of Christianity. Anytime there was a major disagreement, the Church(West and East) would hold a council to figure out and make an official judgement call.

And not completely different teachings for roughly 1,500 years…

Again, not defending or denying any church, just looking at history…
thanks,
Brian

 

[mcq72]

Is baptism a regeneration into the body of Christ? Is it a symbolic outward expression of an internal decision? Infant baptism or baptism at age a reasoning or baptism is not necessary…

Again the the non believer generally knows they have a choice to make, believe in Jesus Christ or not . Baptism follows this, and usually by the church that has led them to Christ. The CC accepts baptisms from other churches so the real decisions to make between denominations has not hit yet.

And not completely different teachings for roughly 1,500 years…

Judaizers, Nicolatians,Gnostics, Marcion, Ebionites, Docetists, Arians and Nestorians, Montanists, Rome or Byzantium ( east/ west), Cathars, Waldenses…

All these had Jesus in them, and could be very confusing to a pagan looking to convert.

Most council’s are also evidence of some type of “diversity” that needed addressing, to form or defend orthodoxy.

My point to history is that choices, or confusion to a pagan or non believer looking at “Jesus/ christianity” have always been there, and did not originate with reformers in 15 th century.

 

[brianjmc1]

Again the the non believer generally knows they have a choice to make, believe in Jesus Christ or not

This has and will never change. Regardless of Jesus alive and preaching or resurrected… not sure your point here…

And not completely different teachings for roughly 1,500 years…

These outside of the One church(East and West) were all heretics. where are they today? Ecumenical councils dealt with these false teachings…
I don’t believe there was ANY confusion for the first 1,000 years, and not much confusion in the next 500. If you lived in the West controlled area, you became Roman Catholic, in the East, Orthodox…
Think we are getting off topic here. I would gladly discuss in a new topic if you want?
Thanks for your time on this!
Brian
PS - I included a picture of christian family(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) tree at a high level…

 

[mcq72]

This has and will never change. Regardless of Jesus alive and preaching or resurrected… not sure your point here…

The point was the assertion of everyone elses Christian folly not be be Catholic, based on making it confusing for a non believer, is only merited if one proclaims a church to the unsaved world, for otherwise there is no confusion in proclaiming a died and resurrected Christ to the world by the body at large.

That was my point.

I don’t believe there was ANY confusion for the first 1,000 years, and not much confusion in the next 500.

The point of reference was not from within the CC, but from without, from the pagan, unsaved world, looking toward those professing Christ, whether from orthodox or heretical positions.

Again, if there was no " confusion", there would not have been any councils.

And to your tree, agree it represents Christological unity, but beyond that according to CC only heresy accounts for all subdivisions.

Our best foot forward then is presenting Christ to the world.

 

[Wannano]

mcq72:

Again the the non believer generally knows they have a choice to make, believe in Jesus Christ or not

This has and will never change. Regardless of Jesus alive and preaching or resurrected… not sure your point here…

And not completely different teachings for roughly 1,500 years…

These outside of the One church(East and West) were all heretics. where are they today? Ecumenical councils dealt with these false teachings…
I don’t believe there was ANY confusion for the first 1,000 years, and not much confusion in the next 500. If you lived in the West controlled area, you became Roman Catholic, in the East, Orthodox…
Think we are getting off topic here. I would gladly discuss in a new topic if you want?
Thanks for your time on this!
Brian
PS - I included a picture of christian family(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) tree at a high level…

Thank you for your picture of the Christian Family, it is interesting. I counted less than 40 denominations which is probably quite realistic. We are often told there are 40,000 different denominations so somewhere we lost 39,360!

 

[brianjmc1]

Still confused, probably just me…
non-believer’s had ONE Church to go to for the first 1,000 years(roughly), Two for the next 500 years(and they were VERY similar with regards to doctrine)… So don’t think this was ever confusing. Now groups did come onstage during that time, councils made it clear what the ONE Church taught - not necessary corrections!

Again, if there was no " confusion", there would not gave been any councils.

Just because heretical groups decide to do their own thing, does not mean the councils dealt with confusion. Again, councils were formed to Officially “Reconfirm” what WAS being taught by the Church. There where a lot of teachings by the Church that the councils never addressed, because they never needed to as it was accepted by all…

Again, getting away from the original topic…
Thanks!!!
brian

 

[brianjmc1]

This is a high level picture, so there are more(40,000, i think not, but probably in the low thousands). This summarizes the major Churches. Look at all the non denominational churches and Mormans, LDS, etc… The Roman Catholic Church alone can be broken into 20+ sub Churches in communion(ONE, full agreement) with Rome…
Coptics broke off in the 4th century, does not show all the different Baptists, so take the picture with a grain of salt…

Thanks,
Brian

 

[adf417]

Thank you for your picture of the Christian Family, it is interesting. I counted less than 40 denominations which is probably quite realistic. We are often told there are 40,000 different denominations so somewhere we lost 39,360!

You fail to mention the part that you are also told that one is too many.

peace!!!