Sola scriptura and corrections?

[adf417]

brianjmc1:

The bible alone is the ONLY authority to reveal Gods plan to his people of the teachings of Jesus Christ. A follower interprets scripture for him\herself with the help of the Holy Spirit and does not rely on anyone else, history, non biblical writings, Tradition, etc…

Is this correct

Nope…

“Nope” is a start but it does absolutely no good telling it to Catholics when many others say “yep”.

I was watching one of the many televangelist yesterday afternoon and this was the central and dominant message. There was no doubt about his only authority being the bible only and that there is way too many distorted interpretations. This was not the first time ive seen something like this on tv and at the end of my viewing all i could think, i wonder who is out there to correct him?

I also go to a mostly protestant bible study where i am the only Catholic and while this concept that @brianjmc1 spells out is not absolute throughout the group it certainly is the stifling subject that tends to be avoided among even the non-Catholics, in “a bible study”. And i wonder who is out there to correct them? Which them?

Peace!!!

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

When a person in that sin, & dies in that sin, διχοστασίαι who is it, that judges them, and sends that person to hell? It’s Jesus, …right?.

How do they not die in that sin - or any other Steve?

I don’t think I answered this directly.

Catholics know It’s by

The sacrament of reconciliation, is the only way one can know all sins (particularly mortal sins) have been forgiven & absolved.

 

[TULIPed]

I understand. Can that work without belief in and love for Christ?

 

[mcq72]

also go to a mostly protestant bible study where i am the only Catholic and while this concept that @brianjmc1 spells out is not absolute throughout the group it certainly is the stifling subject that tends to be avoided among even the non-Catholics, in “a bible study”. And i wonder who is out there to correct them? Which them?

Not sure how to respond.

I am thinking of Jesus question to the apostles and really to every person who has heard the Word of God, " whom do you say that I am."

The inference is we all have capability of such a personal “opinion”. Also that there are many pied pipers (teaching authorities) from which to draw from, even follow or not. Finally our destiny rests not upon what others think or teach, but on what we “say”, and saying the right thing is ultimately graced by the Fathers drawing and (name removed by moderator)ut to our spirits. As Elihu rightly said in Job,

“But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.”
Job 32:8 KJV

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: And the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. | King James Version (KJV) | Download The Bible App Now

Or,

“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”

For sure such inspiration is not done in a vacuum. Faith cometh by hearing and that by the Word of God. And for me that is now “scriptura”. Any preaching or teaching, be it from a presbyter or council or magisterium or parent or tradition are authoritative only when they align with scripture and that correctly, and that by correct relation to God in His understanding, for God’s wisdom does cry out from the rooftops/ city gates.

I ramble but yes it is between the Father, the Holy Spirit, and the hearer, any spiritual understanding of said writ, but it is not without foundation of same experience from fathers before us (tradition), and only the Father can capitalize such in our hearts.

 

[adf417]

The inference is we all have capability of such a personal “opinion”.

True and you would also agree this “opinion” must have its limits in terms of doctrine, yes? And these limits are not left up to each individual to determine and enforce, correct?

Also that there are many pied pipers (teaching authorities) from which to draw from, even follow or not.

Not really. There is only one teaching authority and the most simple and unlearned can know and find Him.

Peace!!!

 

[mcq72]

True and you would also agree this “opinion” must have its limits in terms of doctrine, yes? And these limits are not left up to each individual to determine and enforce, correct?

Being that the revelation comes from God, correct, we do not determine them, otherwise it is what is known as a “private” determination.

There is only one teaching authority and the most simple and unlearned can know and find Him.

What I meant by the term ( teaching authority) is what I posted, that indeed a presbyter has authority to teach, as does a council, or a magisterium, or parent, and scripture, etc, even every disciple of Christ.( and yes per your inference Christ himself…as Augustine writes, " “You (Jesus) teach me, even as I listen to your servant preacher (Ambrose)”… my paraphrase

 

[steve-b]

I understand. Can that work without belief in and love for Christ?

That a sacrament or forgiveness can work without belief in, and love for, Jesus?

Consider this answer. It’s a short read. The Forgiveness of Sins | Catholic Answers

 

[adf417]

Being that the revelation comes from God, correct, we do not determine them, otherwise it is what is known as a “private” determination.

I understand and agree which is why i say “i wonder who is out there to correct them? And who is it that need correcting? Some (non-Catholics) would say maybe you do.

Peace!!!

 

[mcq72]

I understand and agree which is why i say “i wonder who is out there to correct them? And who is it that need correcting? Some (non-Catholics) would say maybe you do.

I don’t necesarily wonder who does the correcting as much as what needs to be corrected and in whom (personally, corporately, historically).

 

[adf417]

I don’t necesarily wonder who does the correcting as much as what needs to be corrected and in whom (personally, corporately, historically).

And i dont think God would leave us hanging in that manner nor do i think He would want the non-believers who are seeking wondering who in the Christian community, if any, has it correct.

Peace!!!

 

[mcq72]

And i dont think God would leave us hanging in that manner

I know, but we are not " hanging" or orphaned etc…by wondering I meant it as a healthy part of our relationship with the Lord and others, an apspect of working out ones salvation in fear and trembling, a constant buffetting of the flesh and daily filling with the Spirit, even perseverance, and that now we see thru a glass darkly, yet we know all things in Christ Jesus, not to mention being humble with our opinions( and believing a church is “the” church is still an opinion.

Even the CC has not ruled on everything, and some things are legal to ponder this way or that way.

 

[mcq72]

He would want the non-believers who are seeking wondering who in the Christian community, if any, has it correct.

You mean like in Jesus’s time, where Christ had to ask what people thought of Him, knowing of all the different opinions? Same as in with Cain annd Abel, like do we please God this way or that way.

Salvation and finding it will always be impossible save for God’s grace and drawing and personal revelation, as Jesus showed with Peter’s revelation.

One church claiming fullness over others doesn’t change this stuff.

 

[adf417]

One church claiming fullness over others doesn’t change this stuff.

It does to the growing number who have left the faith altogether.

Peace!!!

 

[mcq72]

It does to the growing number who have left the faith altogether.

not sure accurate correlation. That is, not sure people see confusion and then leave Jesus altogether. I would say that some do leave due to poor teaching (my people perish for lack of knowledge…OT, but at some point each man will know for himself the Lord, and will not need neighbor to tell us…future/ or now ?)).

 

[adf417]

not sure accurate correlation.

I am quite sure. Just ask them.

Peace!!!

 

[mcq72]

am quite sure. Just ask them.

Don’t deny your experiences with other folks…quite probable, Satan taking advantage of our " confusion/ division "…i just have never met anyone who left faith over division issue…more over being hurt or seeing hypocrisy or lukewarmness, or cares of the world, persecution, or like Jesus said that some take and practice of religion can make one twice the sinner and thus quite ineffectual even vain leading to discouragement.

 

[adf417]

Don’t deny your experiences with other folks…quite probable, Satan taking advantage of our " confusion/ division "

It seems this is your direct answer to the OP. Thanks.

Peace!!!

 

[mcq72]

It seems this is your direct answer to the OP. Thanks.

I think i answered OP more directly in earlier posts. This last post is more to your claim that people leave the faith over confusion/ division. My latter response covers not just diversity within P churches, but also within the P, O , C reality.

 

[goout]

One church claiming fullness over others doesn’t change this stuff.

Claiming…
Is Christ who he says he is, or is he not?
If we can take Christ at his word, then we have ONE body united in him, and it is visible and instituted in the world, with visible and explicit authority. “Incarnate” might be the operable word here. The Church is Incarnate, in Christ.

That’s not the outrageous claim of a denomination, it’s the clear observation of who Christ is, what he said, what he did, and what he continues to do. And the Church is conformed to him.

There can’t be two Jesus’, or ten thousand. And Jesus does not create ruptures and factions. That means the Church is also continuous in it’s one-ness with Christ (in reply to the “Constantinists”)
And Jesus is not “The Ghost of God” or “The Great Ethical Principal of God”. Jesus is The Son of God in the flesh, and so his Church is also. Look and you will see it, and it will no longer be a human claim but a reality.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Let me give you a personal example that I’ve used before here. One time, a fair bit ago, I went to a Catholic Men’s Bible study with a good Catholic friend of mine. I was very excited to go and share this time together with him. We got there, had a cup of coffee, sat down, and the leader asked us to bow our heads to open in prayer. He began, “Our Mother…” and proceeded to pray.

Now - I know that he was praying to Mary for intercession. I know that Mary points to Jesus. I know that Catholics don’t worship Mary. However - in spite of all this knowledge - every cell in my body was screaming at me to jump out of my chair and run out of the building (I didn’t).

I respect you a great deal for being understanding and hanging around that bible study. I have been there . In fact, If I am in the presence of a poorly formed Catholic who sees Mary as a sort of a demi-god, it still bothers me. I ask for her intercession and have no problem with it so long as everybody in the group ‘gets it’, so to speak. Hopefully everyone in that group you were in was well catechized.