Sola Scriptura contradicts Inspiration of the apostles?

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Gaelic_Bard said:
I don’t see what the line of questioning is seeking to prove. Before you worry about the epistemological problems of Protestant church discipline, worry about Biden and Pelosi.
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Protestants love to throw Biden and Pelosi around, but forget about John Boehner and Paul Ryan. And let’s not forget Justices Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Kennedy, and Roberts. As well as… Marco Rubio, Pat Toomey, Peter King, Jeb Bush, Rudy Giuliani, Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, Chris Christie, Susana Martinez, Bobby Jindal…

and then there’s Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Bill O’Reilly, Michelle Malkin, Peggy Noonan… and two stalwarts of the conservative movement (now deceased), William F Buckley and Phyllis Schlafly.

All Catholics. All Republicans. And yet, we always hear about Biden and Pelosi. Well, guess what? The President is from YOUR team. How do those apples taste?

 
stewstew03 said:
Protestants love to throw Biden and Pelosi around, but forget about John Boehner and Paul Ryan. And let’s not forget Justices Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Kennedy, and Roberts. As well as… Marco Rubio, Pat Toomey, Peter King, Jeb Bush, Rudy Giuliani, Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, Chris Christie, Susana Martinez, Bobby Jindal…

and then there’s Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Bill O’Reilly, Michelle Malkin, Peggy Noonan… and two stalwarts of the conservative movement (now deceased), William F Buckley and Phyllis Schlafly.

All Catholics. All Republicans. And yet, we always hear about Biden and Pelosi. Well, guess what? The President is from YOUR team. How do those apples taste?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/2c266ed7bf4c6b511b3910c4107035c3/tumblr_mldmwja5bz1rq6zu5o1_250.gif
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Sure, there are many Catholics faithful to church teaching. That goes without saying. But don’t pretend that the level of discipline present in Catholicism is any better than Protestantism. Apologists love to point out that if a church excommunicates a Protestant, he just goes to another church. Disobedient Catholics don’t have to do even that. They just stay in the same parish. Or go to papal inauguration masses.

Glass houses.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
Sure, there are many Catholics faithful to church teaching. That goes without saying. But don’t pretend that the level of discipline present in Catholicism is any better than Protestantism. Apologists love to point out that if a church excommunicates a Protestant, he just goes to another church. Disobedient Catholics don’t have to do even that. They just stay in the same parish. Or go to papal inauguration masses.

Glass houses.
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The Church does not really want dissenting Catholics to leave and go elsewhere, though it might make life easier for all concerned. Where else would they go? The Church wants the faithful to stay and learn and hopefully repent and get back in line with Church teaching. We have the example of Judas. Jesus did not expose him and his treachery outright. He could have done so, but didn’t. He treated Judas in much the same way as the other Apostles.
 
PRmerger said:
As the Church is the Christ’s Body, what would be wrong with Sola Ecclesia?

In fact, you give tacit submission to Sola Ecclesia each and every time you quote from the NT.

If the Church got it wrong in discerning for you the canon, then you cannot trust any word of the Sacred Scriptures.
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I disagree, Jesus and his Disciples quoted from multiple scrolls of the hebrew scriptures, just because you have put them into one binding God has made sure that they are available to mankind…I believe in God’s Word…

Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
 
Well Christian, I just finished answering you on the Mormon JW thread.

You have to separate from what is Church Tradition that goes to the beginnings in how faith was put into being through the apostles and their chosen successors, and from the small ecclesial traditions that reflect culture and practice for the specific times they are in.

Pope Francis is not changing faith and morals, but the image in how the Church is perceived, streamlining the Vatican, and calling on all of us to remember the poor and marginalized, to become more simple, and get the spirit of the world out of the Church which has infected it these last 100 years.

There is not a single priest or bishop or Pope who owns anything or any property of the Church; it belongs to Christ alone. And the beauty and awe that one sees in the Vatican and in our churches is more praising and giving glory to Him through music, art, architecture, literature. Nobody owns the Vatican. It doesn’t mean that everyone in there is all that they can be. That is what the Holy Father is working on.

Whatever power one perceives of the Holy Father or of the Vatican or just of the Catholic Church itself, is not the power of men but the power of Jesus present in His Church.

The center and life of our Church is Jesus Christ, and He will always remain with us. As a good pruner, He cuts down the tree that doesn’t bear fruit.

The next ‘chapter’ of the Bible is the life of the Church itself and if you look at the lives of the saints and martyrs, missionaries, parish priests and nuns…you will find most exemplary Christians who truly gave their all for Christ and are of great inspiration to us today.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
So where are these other words of Jesus not recorded in the Bible? Do they differ from what the apostles later say and write on? Does the church have a record of the actions Jesus did that aren’t in the New Testament?

By the way, you didn’t answer. Is what you posted from the apostles clear and perspicuous and not subject to your own interpretation? If not, then why shoukd I accept your interpretation? If they are clear, then why is the rest of what they wrote complete gobblidygook?
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Jesus told his disciple happy are you because God has revealed it to you.

Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 10:23 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

If someone comes to you with pure scripture, and it is proven by scripture maybe God’s Spirit has not allowed you to see it? The bible is simple it is revealed to babes…
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
I don’t see what the line of questioning is seeking to prove. Before you worry about the epistemological problems of Protestant church discipline, worry about Biden and Pelosi.
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Hm…so why don’t you answer the hypothetical situation?

Mentioning Biden or Pelosi is evasion.
 
Christianad2 said:
Take a look at 2 Tim 3:14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Notice that the scriptures states throughly furnished unto all good works. Not some but all works. This scritpures shows the bible is complete and can be depended on as the foundation for anyone that is a man of God.
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No, it does not say that. It includes teaching and instruction in the proper way of understanding scripture…look at v14.

Paul also taught Timothy. Before Paul taught Timothy, look at what he did…in Acts 13 and Gal 2:2
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
Sure, there are many Catholics faithful to church teaching. That goes without saying. But don’t pretend that the level of discipline present in Catholicism is any better than Protestantism. Apologists love to point out that if a church excommunicates a Protestant, he just goes to another church.

Disobedient Catholics don’t have to do even that. They just stay in the same parish. Or go to papal inauguration masses.

Glass houses.
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So…what is wrong with that? What is your issue with this? The CC shows love by urging them to renew themselves, to transform themselves…not throw them out.

Do you see anything wrong with this?
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
What hypothetical situation?
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G.B.,

One final hypothetical for today.

What if I presented myself to a Baptist pastor and told him that I wanted to come aboard and enter his Church. What if I told him that I firmly believe all that the Baptist Church teaches except, after searching the Scriptures on my own, I have determined that infant baptism actually regenerates the soul of the newborn child. What do think his response would be?

Would I be granted full fellowship in that Church? Or would I be rejected for my personal belief which I based on Scripture alone?

If I was rejected for that one belief, could it be said that the pastor exceeded his authority over my right to private judgment based on Sola Scriptura?
 
pablope said:
G.B.,

One final hypothetical for today.

What if I presented myself to a Baptist pastor and told him that I wanted to come aboard and enter his Church. What if I told him that I firmly believe all that the Baptist Church teaches except, after searching the Scriptures on my own, I have determined that infant baptism actually regenerates the soul of the newborn child. What do think his response would be?

Would I be granted full fellowship in that Church? Or would I be rejected for my personal belief which I based on Scripture alone?

If I was rejected for that one belief, could it be said that the pastor exceeded his authority over my right to private judgment based on Sola Scriptura?
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I answered that one, pablope.
 
pablope said:
So…what is wrong with that? What is your issue with this? The CC shows love by urging them to renew themselves, to transform themselves…not throw them out.

Do you see anything wrong with this?
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Who is talking about throwing them out. I’m talking about communion.
 
po18guy said:
Relax! Of the three crucial components of the faith, time and human language dictate that one has to be mentioned first, right? Since the Body of Christ is One, it is congruous, homogenous, of one accord. The Eastern Orthodox faith (let’s leave Catholicism out for now) consists of three aspects, and human language necessitates that one must be mentioned first - which does not mean that it takes precedence. However, chronologically, the faith came first, then the authority. Scripture followed, and so, before it was accepted, it has to be tested against the preexisting faith - tested by that authority which Christ gave the Church - the authority exercised in Acts 15. The scripture we have today passed muster and so it is the third leg of the three-legged stool of Apostolic Tradition, Written Tradition and Magisterium.

Is it as easy to question the foundation of the Eastern Orthodox faith? Point to ponder.

Bible Christianity has a certain aspect of the faith completely backward - in that they base their faith on the bible, while Christ did not present it to us that way. I see this as a form of reverse-engineering in the hopes of arriving at the truth faith. But, two of the three crucial (from “cross”) parts are missing if you do this.

Should I say that the Confessions are suspect solely because they came 1,400-1,500 years post-scripture? I don’t think so.
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Should I say that the Confessions are suspect *solely [/quote said:
because they came 1,400-1,500 years post-scripture? I don’t think so.

When Jesus was tempted by Satan he used the words, and examples from the hebrew scrolls. Man doesn’t rely on bread alone, but every utterance of GOD.

biblos.com/matthew/4-4.htm “Every utterance of God”
biblos.com/deuteronomy/6-13.htm “You must Worship Only God”

Jesus demonstrated the need for us to use the scriptures as a solid foundation against deception and separation from God’s will. Being christian means following Jesus or Christlike. This is Christ Kingdom he is the King every knee shall bend in heaven and upon earth…

biblos.com/philippians/2-10.htm

Should we not follow his example?
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pablope said:
No, it does not say that. It includes teaching and instruction in the proper way of understanding scripture…look at v14.

Paul also taught Timothy. Before Paul taught Timothy, look at what he did…in Acts 13 and Gal 2:2
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What thou has learned is from the Hebrew scriptures and Jesus…which Jesus quoted constantly. “It is written”, but despite his example Sola Scriptura is stated. Why is it Scriptures are not welcomed on a blog site that should be devoted to God. I will not be a part of this type of site. I guarantee you just kick people off for using scripture.

May your garments be eaten and spit out with nothing remaining of you.

Rev 17:15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her

9And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
 
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