Sola Scriptura contradicts Inspiration of the apostles?

  • Thread starter Thread starter hapaxparadidomi
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Gaelic_Bard said:
Are you saying that what Paul, Luke and John wrote are clear, perspicuous and understood by all?
Click to expand...
Nothing is understood by all, as we lack the faith that leads to understanding. Yet, God always sent someone to interpret (Nehemiah 8:5-8 and Acts 8: 26-35). God in Christ sent the Apostles (Luke 10:16) and they appointed successors (Acts 1:15-26). To depart from that formula is to risk being lead astray by man’s ego.

Peter teaches that Paul is difficult to understand (2 Peter 3:16) - yet fundamentalists/evangelicals rely heavily on Paul/Romans. Do you see a potential problem here? Are they smarter than Peter?

Do you read these verses as claiming that the bible is complete?

Luke 3:18
18 So, with many other exhortations, he preached good news to the people.

John 20:30
30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book…

John 21:25
25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written…

Acts 2:40
40 And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation

1 Corinthians 11:34
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
34 if any one is hungry, let him eat at home—lest you come together to be condemned. About the other things I will give directions when I come.

Ephesians 6:21
21 Now that you also may know how I am and what I am doing, Tych′icus the beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord will tell you everything

It seems clear to this dimbulb that the bible is incomplete.

Also pretty clear that man lives by “every word that comes from the mouth of God” (Jesus in Matthew 4:4 quoting Deuteronomy 8:3). John, Luke and Paul “seem to” tell us that not every word is in there. And, they were inspired by God when they wrote that things are missing from scripture, were they not?

We know that God’s word does not return to Him void (Isaiah 55:11). Since Gods word is not all in the bible, is it lost forever? Does it now return to Him void?
 
po18guy said:
Luke 3:18
18 So, with many other exhortations, he preached good news to the people.

John 20:30
30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book…

John 21:25
25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written…

Acts 2:40
40 And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation

1 Corinthians 11:34
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
34 if any one is hungry, let him eat at home—lest you come together to be condemned. About the other things I will give directions when I come.

Ephesians 6:21
21 Now that you also may know how I am and what I am doing, Tych′icus the beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord will tell you everything

Pretty clear to me that the bible is incomplete. Do you read these are proof that the bible is complete?

Also pretty clear that man lives by “every word that comes from the mouth of God” (Jesus in Matthew 4:4 quoting Deuteronomy 8:3). John, Luke and Paul tell us that not every word is in there. And, they were inspired by God, were they not?

We know that God’s word does not return to Him void (Isaiah 55:11). Since Gods word is not all in the bible, is it lost? Does it now return to Him void?
Click to expand...
So where are these other words of Jesus not recorded in the Bible? Do they differ from what the apostles later say and write on? Does the church have a record of the actions Jesus did that aren’t in the New Testament?

By the way, you didn’t answer. Is what you posted from the apostles clear and perspicuous and not subject to your own interpretation? If not, then why shoukd I accept your interpretation? If they are clear, then why is the rest of what they wrote complete gobblidygook?
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
So where are these other words of Jesus not recorded in the Bible? Do they differ from what the apostles later say and write on? Does the church have a record of the actions Jesus did that aren’t in the New Testament?

By the way, you didn’t answer. Is what you posted from the apostles clear and perspicuous and not subject to your own interpretation? If not, then why shoukd I accept your interpretation? If they are clear, then why is the rest of what they wrote complete gobblidygook?
Click to expand...
A red herring. If someone will not believe unless they see written proof, how are they different from Thomas? Are you claiming that Jesus’ other words are not important? That we can dismiss them? That He would allow them to return to the Father void? That He did not send Apostles with the authority to appoint successors? That… well, this could go on forever. If you are satisfied with the slice of revelation that is written, good on ya’ mate!

God promised more. God delivered more. I want more.
 
po18guy said:
A red herring. If someone will not believe unless they see written proof, how are they different from Thomas? Are you claiming that Jesus’ other words are not important? That we can dismiss them? That He would allow them to return to the Father void? That He did not send Apostles with the authority to appoint successors? That… well, this could go on forever. If you are satisfied with the slice of revelation that is written, good on ya’ mate!

God promised more. God delivered more. I want more.
Click to expand...
No. Can you tell me where these other words are? Where are his words and actions that aren’t in the NT?
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
No. Can you tell me where these other words are? Where are his words and actions that aren’t in the NT?
Click to expand...
I am presenting to those with open hearts, not arguing. My words are for those who are docile to the Holy Spirit - I pray that you are included amongst them. You are very firmly rooted in the Baptist Tradition. You are clearly satisfied there. At some point in the future, should you ever be unsatisfied, seek and you shall find. Christ left a living authority - one that is condemned by this world for not changing with the times.
 
po18guy said:
I am presenting to those with open hearts, not arguing. My words are for those who are docile to the Holy Spirit - I pray that you are included amongst them. You are very firmly rooted in the Baptist Tradition. You are clearly satisfied there. At some point in the future, should you ever be unsatisfied, seek and you shall find. Christ left a living authority - one that is condemned by this world for not changing with the times.
Click to expand...
Well, I think Christians in general are condemned by the world for that one. The Catholic Church, as well.

I am not being hostile, po. You made the claim that there are things Jesus said which are not recorded in the NT. I would agree they are not. I think apostolic teaching as a whole more than suffices for giving us all of significance that Jesus said and did that is necessary. Be that as it may, you said there are those things and that we do not have them but you do. So, I’m just asking where I can find them, if not the NT. If you can’t point to something Jesus said or did that’s not in the NT, it seems irrelevant to state it.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
Well, I think Christians in general are condemned by the world for that one. The Catholic Church, as well.

I am not being hostile, po. You made the claim that there are things Jesus said which are not recorded in the NT. I would agree they are not. I think apostolic teaching as a whole more than suffices for giving us all of significance that Jesus said and did that is necessary. Be that as it may, you said there are those things and that we do not have them but you do. So, I’m just asking where I can find them, if not the NT. If you can’t point to something Jesus said or did that’s not in the NT, it seems irrelevant to state it.
Click to expand...
Speaking for myself, I do not want a “necessary” or even a “sufficient” faith life. I want life in “abundance” as our Lord promised. For years, even in the Catholic faith, I did not have it. An encounter with the Holy Spirit changed all that.

Christ left us a living authority, a good part of which is written. I will not live long enough to plumb the depths of Catholic spirituality, but what a quest!
 
po18guy said:
Speaking for myself, I do not want a “necessary” or even a “sufficient” faith life. I want life in “abundance” as our Lord promised. For years, even in the Catholic faith, I did not have it. An encounter with the Holy Spirit changed all that.

Christ left us a living authority, a good part of which is written. I will not live long enough to plumb the depths of Catholic spirituality, but what a quest!
Click to expand...
Amen.
Mary.
 
MaryT777 said:
🍿
Click to expand...
MaryT777 said:
Amen.
Mary.
Click to expand...
See? It’s not painful to speak up!

Now, as to the rest of the thread, many bible Christians with whom I interact think that I belittle scripture by simply pointing out its limitations. Nothing of the sort. What is often completely missed is that scripture must be interpreted correctly, or you end up with the JWs and the LDS - both founded upon the 66 book King James Version! So much for the authority of “bible alone”!

Although there may be one somewhere, I am aware of no heretical cult ever founded on the 73 book Catholic bible. Once you tinker with God’s word, it opens Pandora’s box and thousands of denominations come spilling out.
 
Seems to me a peculiar problem for the sola scripturist. If only what is written is the final authority, and some would say anything beyond that is not ultimately authoritative, was it the final authority when they previously spoke it? They surely taught more things than we have received, so how can we say that the only what is in the New testament is inspired? Did the apostles know this? Not plausibly so because if they knew their writings were going to be scripture they would have canonised it from the begining. Just another hole in the corpse which is sola scriptura.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
some would say anything beyond that is not ultimately authoritative
Click to expand...
I would never say that - I don’t deny other authorities at all. If those authorities teach something contrary to scripture, I tend to ignore that specific teaching.
 
benjohnson said:
I would never say that - I don’t deny other authorities at all. If those authorities teach something contrary to scripture, I tend to ignore that specific teaching.
Click to expand...
I find that when lutherans say this (and I mean no offence) they quickly fall back to scripture as being the only thing that they take absolutely. I’m sure if this conversation continues I can get it out of you. But how would you go about saying something is an equal authority on par with scripture? (that is what I was essentially saying, after all) Unless you want to maintain they are lesser but still authoratative so long as they are in line with scripture, in which case I think my point still stands. Protestants cannot find anything beyond the bible ultimately authoritative, except for their canon, and thats about it.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
Seems to me a peculiar problem for the sola scripturist. If only what is written is the final authority, and some would say anything beyond that is not ultimately authoritative, was it the final authority when they previously spoke it? They surely taught more things than we have received, so how can we say that the only what is in the New testament is inspired? Did the apostles know this? Not plausibly so because if they knew their writings were going to be scripture they would have canonised it from the begining. Just another hole in the corpse which is sola scriptura.
Click to expand...
Well said. BTW, you are in the middle of Τεσσαρακοστή are you not? I pray that it is a very spiritual time.
 
po18guy said:
Well said. BTW, you are in the middle of Τεσσαρακοστή are you not? I pray that it is a very spiritual time.
Click to expand...
In the middle of Great lent? Tessarakaste? (My greek is bad) But if that means great lent, we’re in the middle of it.
 
po18guy said:
See? It’s not painful to speak up!

Now, as to the rest of the thread, many bible Christians with whom I interact think that I belittle scripture by simply pointing out its limitations. Nothing of the sort. What is often completely missed is that scripture must be interpreted correctly, or you end up with the JWs and the LDS - both founded upon the 66 book King James Version! So much for the authority of “bible alone”!

Although there may be one somewhere, I am aware of no heretical cult ever founded on the 73 book Catholic bible. Once you tinker with God’s word, it opens Pandora’s box and thousands of denominations come spilling out.
Click to expand...
:amen: Speaking up louder now LOL 🙂 Sometiimes I know my limits and am quiet. It could be
a small miracle in the making…
Mary.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top