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Newbie2
Guest
Ah, but if they use “many other sources”, as you wrote, Sola Scriptura cannot be SOLA.
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DD2007
Guest
Everything you actually do is a work.What does this have to do with good works being evidence for Sola Scriptura??
People do things=the Bible is the sole authority on salvation? Bizzare conclusion, methinks.
If you are trained to do every good work possible from scripture that means that scripture is sufficient to teach you everything good that you can do. If there is something good that you can do that isn’t in scripture then scriputre isn’t sufficient and this verse isn’t true and the RCC is wrong about scriputral inerrancy.
Thus, everything God decided you need to know to do anything good is in scriputure if you believe the bible.
You see?
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Religio71
Guest
Ok let’s look at this as Catholics, Orthodox, and the billion+ other non sola scriptura Christians rightly interpret this.
Catholics fully believe that all Scripture is breathed out by God, and is profitable for teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness. In fact, we refer to Scripture to back up all of our beliefs, and Scripture is used by catechists in teaching the Faith to converts and current Catholics.
Yes, Scripture equips us for every good work. Being equipped for EVERY good work does NOT mean that Scripture is all one needs, nor does every mean sufficient. Hands are nice to have and with them I am equipped to do practically everything I do all day long. However it isn’t sufficient, as I may also need a fork, a pen, a book,a remote control, my computer, etc. So yes, with Scripture we are equipped for every good work, but that does NOT mean that all we need is Scripture. That is not a logical conclusion.
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DD2007
Guest
Many other sources for the unbeliever to come to trust the bible.
Once a person is regenerated by God and are adopted into his family then the scriptures are there to train them for everything they ned in the matter of faith and practice. So, Sola Scriptura.
There are two peoples in the world. Those who believe and those who don’t. Hell bound and heaven bound. God’s children and children of the devil.
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DD2007
Guest
Every good work comes from God. God is good. The scriptures are about God to teach us children of God to be like him and do good.
If it says it equips us for every good work it does and nothing else is needed to learn about anything good, because if it were so the Holy Spirit would have used a non all encompasing word like most or some but he did not he used EVERY. Which is all encompasing.
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Religio71
Guest
You don’t get it. Being equipped for every good work does not mean that it is all you need. My eyes equip me for everything I do throughout the day. However I still need more than my eyes to actually carry out tasks. Likewise, Scripture equips us for every good work, but that does not mean it is all we need. Also, the Bible itself never says that the word of God is only contained within it, in written form.
There is no logical equivalence between “equipped for every good work” and “all we need for every good work”.
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Newbie2
Guest
No.
I don’t think you fully appreciate what Sola Scriptura means. Sola=Only, right? How can there be any “other sources” that you say authenticate the bible if the bible is the sole authority on matters of faith (including itself)?
I think the problem is that you’re hung up on Scripture teaching about good works. You don’t mention about Scripture teaching about faith, which is crucial for salvation. Why, it’s even essential to believing in Scripture itself, so you claim. Where does faith fit in this whole thing for you?
Do you believe that doing good works is how we achieve eternal life?
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adstrinity
Guest
Where is that in the Bible? Where is it that:
- There are two peoples in the world?
- Those two peoples are those who believe and those who don’t?
- Those two peoples in number 2) correspond with Hell bound and Heaven bound?
- Those two peoples in number 2) correstpond with God’s children and children of the devil?
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Hello DD2007; thanks for your response; So you believe “All who read it are being taught by the apostles” So anyone can read scripture and teach it? because by reading the bible themselves makes them taught by the apostles?
What happened to all those since the first century never learned how to read? did these go to hell because they could not read the bible inspired by the Holy Spirit, and could not be taught by the apostles because they never learned to read? Or am I to assume that you are an apostle because you can read the bible and others who cannot read are not an apostle?
My Catholic faith teaches me that faith come from hearing and hearing the Word of God. So do we remove this verse from the bible becaue it conflicts with your theology of Sola Scriptura? You see the confusion Sola Scriptura brings to christianity? which is it? hearing? or reading?. Because to hold to a Sola Scriptura leaves the hearing impaired and the illiterate out of your Sola Scriptura equation?
Unless you need a teacher, but then your Sola Scriptura theology is no longer Sola Scriptura because you just added a teacher? Then how do we know if the teacher of the (not the sola scriptura no more because you just added a teacher) the bible like your self is teaching true apostolic “Truth”. If the teacher like yourself was never taught or saw a living a apostle?
The Catholic Bishops are successors to the apostles because their teachers were taught by the apostles themselves, who handed down the teachings and Traditions of apostles of which the Catholic church still teaches unchanged today. If you leave out Sared Oral Tradition of the apostles and hold to only Sola Scriptura then you do not have the full deposit of faith; I will leave you with these scriptures;
2Thessalonians 2:13 But we ought to give thanks to God for you always, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits 7 for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in truth. 14 To this end he has (also) called you through our gospel to possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. 16 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting encouragement and good hope through his grace, 17 encourage your hearts and strengthen them in every good deed and word.
2Thess.3:5 May the Lord direct your hearts to the love of God and to the endurance of Christ. 6 We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us.
1Timothy 3:14 I am writing you about these matters, although I hope to visit you soon.
15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. 16 Undeniably great is the mystery of devotion, Who 7 was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed to the Gentiles, believed in throughout the world, taken up in glory.
1Corinthians11:1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. 2 I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. 3 But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and God the head of Christ.
1Peter 1:23 You have been born anew, not from perishable but from imperishable seed, through the living and abiding word of God, 11 24 for: “All flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flower of the field; the grass withers, and the flower wilts; 25 but the word of the Lord remains forever.” This is the word that has been proclaimed to you.
2Peter 3: 15 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, 16 speaking of these things 12 as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures. 17 Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability. 18 But grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory now and to the day of eternity. (Amen.)
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Des
Guest
If it said ‘Only’ Scripture you’d have a case. But it doesn’t does it. Likewise if said ‘fully equipped’ the man for every good work which again…it doesn’t.
In context here’s what that means but instead of Scripture, lets use 'Surgeons medical manual guide 'instead.
All Surgeons’ medical manual guides are profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the Surgeon may be competent, equipped for every surgery procedure.
What is it saying. That the manual alone doesn’t complete the Surgeon but that the manual itself, is profitable and equips him for every surgery. Nowhere does it say it fully equips a surgeon for every procedure. It would be foolish to say otherwise since we know Surgeons need alot more than a manual to perform their surgeries just like the Men of God (Timothy) was ‘taught’ by Paul and didn’t just have the Old Testament thrown at him.
And others are right here who say all NT books were not together at this time so you run into another problem.
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jblake
Guest
DD2007;:
The Bible is no better preserved than other ancient texts.
jonathon
Depending upon how one defines “most well preserved”, that honour goes to either a Sanskrit or a Chinese text.
You really need to read somebody other than Josh McDowell and his fan club.
The Bible is no better preserved than other ancient texts.
If taking over an empire is the criteria for determining whether or not a sacred book is the “True word of God”, then both the Yi Jing and Dao De Jing belong in that category. The q’ran is also in that category.
jonathon
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mark_a
Guest
Thanks for your opinion. Here’s mine.
SS is very likely sufficient for salvation.
However, you’s SS guys give the impression of having an old testament, half hidden, jealous, vengeful God of hatred.
Like I said, it’s just my opinion of you’s guys.
Have a nice day.
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jblake
Guest
DD2007;:
BTW, your original claim was:
So just why should Jews get to select the books found in the Protestant Christian Canon?
jonathon
Actually, the evidence suggests that it was received by the Jews, as written by David, but then rejected by what would evolve into Orthodox Judaism, because of its usage by a Jewish sect that the group that would evolve into Orthodox Judaism disapproved of.
The evidence is support of them not being written by Paul can go either way. Half of t he Pauline Corpus probably was not written by Paul. (The doubts about those books have been expressed since at least the Second Century.)
BTW, your original claim was:
If everything the prophets and apostles wrote is canonical, then the acceptance, or not of a book by a religion other than Christianity shouldn’t make any difference to the Christian Canon.
So just why should Jews get to select the books found in the Protestant Christian Canon?
jonathon
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Bill_Pick
Guest
You know you started with some thing WRONG 2 Tim 3’16 is talking about NT, = The doctrine of SS is NOT taught anywhere in the Bible,- The Bible calls the CHURCH and NOT the Bible the Pillar of truty and not the bible and its ! Tim 3:15
The first christians did not have a caomplete bible== and the CHURCH prodced the first Bible and Not Vise-Versa.
To say the Bible is the rule of truth is a joke started My Martin Luther 1400 years after Christ,it is a false teaching
The first christians did not have a caomplete bible== and the CHURCH prodced the first Bible and Not Vise-Versa.
To say the Bible is the rule of truth is a joke started My Martin Luther 1400 years after Christ,it is a false teaching
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VARC
Guest
Not to mention that there aren’t many writings in the Bible that are written by apostles or prophets. Most were written by anonymous authors under the name of an apostle or prophet.
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VARC
Guest
Historians date the Didache no earlier than 70 AD. Only John is believed to be alive at that time. Other historians date it as late as the end of the 2nd century. There is absolutely no proof that any of the apostles wrote the Didache.
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Des
Guest
Yes,‘equipped’ in this case would be a combination of all things including the oral teachings which was mentioned just before that along with the Guidencs of the Spirit etc. It wasn’t speaking about Scripture only doing all of the equipping.
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VARC
Guest
The vast majority of Biblical scholars (catholic and protestant) reject that Peter wrote that epistle.
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Bill_Pick
Guest
YOUR APOLOGISTS HAS BEEN REFUTED ONCE OND FOR ALL, THE TEACHING OF SS IS DEAD;;
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2Tim 3:16-17 (KJV)
It is a common protestant argument against Roman Catholicism, that "because the Bible, and only the Bible, is said to be “God-breathed” (greek theopnuestos).
In 2Tim 3:16-17, scripture, agreed, says to be inspired by God. But in no way it is told to be sufficient. Also, just because tradition is NOT said to be “god-breathed” doesn’t imply the contrary. Protestants often use the “it’s not in the bible” cliché, ONLY when it’s convenient for them (it’s not in the Bible that Mary sinned… nor that she had other children. Also, “god-breathed” is not the only adjective in the Bible denoting authority.
This makes the “only Bible = God breathed” argument somewhat weak.
But now, let’s read in full context, the complete passage of 2Tim 3:16:
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [1All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2Tim 3:14-17 (KJV)
Do we find the word “sufficient” in there? Besides, Paul also speaks in favor of “which thou hast learned… knowing of whom thou hast learned them”. In other words, tradition. Also, 2Tim doesn’t say that ONLY Scripture makes the man perfect. Even more: It says “that the MAN OF GOD may be perfect”.
And what does God breadthed mean Its us 2 time in the Bible and the Non-cathloic us it once in Gen 7:3 and John 20:23=24 and not in John because ut goes against the prost, teaching
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2Tim 3:16-17 (KJV)
It is a common protestant argument against Roman Catholicism, that "because the Bible, and only the Bible, is said to be “God-breathed” (greek theopnuestos).
In 2Tim 3:16-17, scripture, agreed, says to be inspired by God. But in no way it is told to be sufficient. Also, just because tradition is NOT said to be “god-breathed” doesn’t imply the contrary. Protestants often use the “it’s not in the bible” cliché, ONLY when it’s convenient for them (it’s not in the Bible that Mary sinned… nor that she had other children. Also, “god-breathed” is not the only adjective in the Bible denoting authority.
This makes the “only Bible = God breathed” argument somewhat weak.
But now, let’s read in full context, the complete passage of 2Tim 3:16:
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [1All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2Tim 3:14-17 (KJV)
Do we find the word “sufficient” in there? Besides, Paul also speaks in favor of “which thou hast learned… knowing of whom thou hast learned them”. In other words, tradition. Also, 2Tim doesn’t say that ONLY Scripture makes the man perfect. Even more: It says “that the MAN OF GOD may be perfect”.
And what does God breadthed mean Its us 2 time in the Bible and the Non-cathloic us it once in Gen 7:3 and John 20:23=24 and not in John because ut goes against the prost, teaching
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