"Sola Scriptura"

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I,being a protestant, voted No. One of the many lamps that Jesus commanded to not be put under a bushel is intellect. It is intellect that denies me the ability to accept sola scriptura since if the Bible were meant to be the end-all, be-all of it all then I think that it would say so. I have read the cannonized Scripture, the deutero cannon and books from Nag Hammadi and Kum-ran and nowhere in any of them is scripture declared the final authority. The reason for checking these other sources is to eliminate the possibility that one of them said so and that the RCC simply excluded it to further their own desires. It is not there anywhere. Therefore the scriptures as collected are valid and are “useful” for teaching (2 Tim 3:16) but not the final authority.
This is the first time I have heard of a Protestant who does not adhere to SS. So what denomination are you? Is SS a doctrine that a protestant can not agree with and still remain protestant?
I must say I find this quite interesting.
 
Precisely, the Church possesses the Truth, which is Jesus.

From the viewpoint of the Catholic, Jesus is the Word. And the Church, being founded by Jesus, headed by Him, and being His body, transmits the Word, the final authority, and hence cannot teach anything contrary to the written aspect of the Word.

However, Jesus Christ, being God’s Word, is not limited by scripture, but lives beyond it. “I am the Truth, the Way…” It is true, scripture contains God’s word, but Jesus, being God’s Word, His Truth, exceeds scripture.
Well said. 👍

Based on many of the responses I have seen, I must ask all “sola scripturists”: Is Jesus greater than the bible?

Hints:
Jesus = complete (Revelation 1:8; 21:6; 22:13)
Bible = incomplete (Luke 3:18; John 20:30, John 21:25; Acts 2:40)
 
Here is one [of many]. And this is a frank admission from a Catholic priest James Cardinal Gibbon in his book “Faith of Our Fathers.”

“You may search the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.”
You may search the web and you’ ll find nothing original about SDA propaganda.! heard this one - oh about a billion times- please do or say something original.blah, blah ,blah- will only get you so far and being a intellectually challenged organization I doubt anything original will ever come out.
 
This is the first time I have heard of a Protestant who does not adhere to SS. So what denomination are you? Is SS a doctrine that a protestant can not agree with and still remain protestant?
I must say I find this quite interesting.
I am a logical protestant. This means that I have to read the Bible and agree with what it says, which is to deny SS. It also denies Sola Fide, and a caste of preachers who are not from ecclesiastical hierarchy descending from Peter. As someone once said (Newman I think) to know history is to be Catholic (or words like that) or to use what I say while trying to convince my wife not to divorce me if I go home, to be a thinking, reasoning Christian is to long to be Catholic.
 
I am a logical protestant. This means that I have to read the Bible and agree with what it says, which is to deny SS. It also denies Sola Fide, and a caste of preachers who are not from ecclesiastical hierarchy descending from Peter. As someone once said (Newman I think) to know history is to be Catholic (or words like that) or to use what I say while trying to convince my wife not to divorce me if I go home, to be a thinking, reasoning Christian is to long to be Catholic.
Welcome! Keep seeking the truth in all that you do and the Lord will lead you home. Amen!
 
I am a logical protestant. This means that I have to read the Bible and agree with what it says, which is to deny SS. It also denies Sola Fide, and a caste of preachers who are not from ecclesiastical hierarchy descending from Peter. As someone once said (Newman I think) to know history is to be Catholic (or words like that) or to use what I say while trying to convince my wife not to divorce me if I go home, to be a thinking, reasoning Christian is to long to be Catholic.
How refreshing! Welcome to the forums. I am sure a lot of people here will love dialoguing with youl
 
I am a logical protestant. As someone once said (Newman I think) to know history is to be Catholic (or words like that)
John Henry Cardinal Newman said “To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant”. I believe this is pretty close.

Please have a look at this site:

www.catholicscomehome.org/

It is tailor-made for you. You can find many answers there and they will even send you a free book. May the peace of Christ be with you on your journey home.
 
Right. But the idea is that for Christians, observance of a sabbath is no longer required. Sunday worship is entirely a tradition of the Catholic Church, and as such is not *contrary *to scripture; it is simply not in scripture. There are indeed hints, indirect evidence of observance of the “first day of the week” in scripture, but hints only.

Oddly, Sunday worship is a Catholic tradition that Protestants continued, even insofar as making it an offense not to go to church on Sunday, as the New England Puritans.

If you reject tradition, and go by bible only, it should be logical to observe a Saturday Sabbath, but it has taken centuries for Protestants to live up to their own logic, and go to back to keeping Saturday, as the Seventh Day Adventists now realize.
If “the Scriptures ENFORCE the religious observance of Saturday” then the observance of Sunday would have to be contrary to Scripture. How could it be otherwise? And who said that the observance of Saturday is no longer required for Christians?

If there are hints or indirect evidence of Sunday observance in Scripture why did Gibbon say “you may search from Genesis to Revelation and you will NOT FIND A SINGLE LINE authorizing the sanctification of Sunday”? And where are these “hints” so that we may examine them? And how great a God you have to just give us hints to change His law which had been there since our creation! And didn’t He say He is the only lawgiver?

I thought someone here said the RCC has never taught anything contrary to Scripture. This is clearly one of them. No honest person can deny that.

You’re right. If I reject tradition and go by Bible only I would have to observe Saturday. In other words, the Sunday tradition is contrary to the teachings in the Bible. But the RCC claims its tradition is never contrary to the Scriptures.
 
You’re an Adventist, right? Have no fear, you are well accepted here. God could have chosen any day to raise His Son. Which did he choose? Which day did the Apostles meet on after the resurrection? Were they wrong?
No, I’m not an Adventist. But that’s beside the point. The fact is that the RCC abrogated a law of God and replaced it with another of its own making. And why would Christ’s resurrection on Sunday change His Sabbath commandment which was to be observed for an entirely different purpose? God did not sanctify Sunday. He sanctified the seventh day for a purpose clearly stated in that commandment.

And by the way, Jesus’ resurrection was not on Sunday.
 
The change from Saturday to Sunday is not contrary to the third commandment. The Church from it’s infancy has always celebrated Sunday as the Lord’s day because it is the day of the Lord’s ressurection and it was also the day when the Holy Spirit descended on the apostles.

Christ said that He Himself is the Lord of the Sabbath. And that is why the 1st day of the week became the Lord’s Day.
You are right. The change is not contrary to the third commandment. It is contrary to the FOURTH. And why does the RCC omit the second commandment in their list of commandments? Is it because its putting up of images and bowing down unto it is in clear violation of the second commandment?

And why would Sunday be the Lord’s Day if Christ is Lord of the Sabbath? Where is the connection?
 
You are right. The change is not contrary to the third commandment. It is contrary to the FOURTH. And why does the RCC omit the second commandment in their list of commandments? Is it because its putting up of images and bowing down unto it is in clear violation of the second commandment?

And why would Sunday be the Lord’s Day if Christ is Lord of the Sabbath? Where is the connection?
1st. The verses about graven images is not a separate commandment but an exposition of the first commandment which says " You shall have no other gods before me". The Catholic images do not detract from God. In the case of statues of saints and the Blessed Virgin, are not other gods but rather representations of people who are actually signposts to God , leading you to God, rather than away from Him. The saints by their lives have given glory to God and these statues are representations of the members of our family who we will meet again in heaven.

2nd. I haven’t got the book with me but Pope Benedict had an excellent essay on this in his book “Jesus of Nazareth”. I will try to post that tomorrow.

In the meantime here is my best shot at it:

In the old covenant God designated the 7th day as the Sabbath (meaning rest) day because this is the day when He rested after the completion of creation.

In Christ, God became man and it is God, the Lord of the Sabbath, in the person of Christ, who decided that on the 7th day He would remain dead. On the 7th day therefore, His work of re-creation/redemption was not finished. It is only after He has risen from the dead that His work is done. And this happened on the 1st day of the week.

This is why very early on, the apostles while still keeping the Jewish Sabbath would also gather on the first day of the week to break bread, the Mass.

Pentecost which is the birthday of the Church also happened on 1st day of the week.

The law reads: You shall keep holy the Sabbath day. To rephrase literraly it goes : You shall keep holy the rest day. Christ by rising on the 1st day has basically designated this to be the new rest day.
 
You are right. The change is not contrary to the third commandment. It is contrary to the FOURTH. And why does the RCC omit the second commandment in their list of commandments? Is it because its putting up of images and bowing down unto it is in clear violation of the second commandment?

And why would Sunday be the Lord’s Day if Christ is Lord of the Sabbath? Where is the connection?
The SDA believe that the Pope (which one?) is the antichrist. They have a vehement hatred for the church, while following the “inspired” writings of their own self-elected pope, Ellen Gould White. They are/were very conspiratorial, believing that evil Rome has coerced all of Christianity into Sunday worship. They may still cling to the paranoid notion that the CC will force a Sunday worship LAW in the U.S.!?! This shows the absolute lunacy of sola scriptura. The SDA remain a tiny fringe of Christianity, disagreeing with all 32,999 other Protestant denominations. Their odd collection of views were expressed nowhere on earth until the mid-1800s, when the JWs and LDS also popped up. They are true Christians in the sense of their valid baptism and basic Christian beliefs, but share an uncomfortable similarity of end times theology with the LDS and JWs.
 
If “the Scriptures ENFORCE the religious observance of Saturday” then the observance of Sunday would have to be contrary to Scripture. How could it be otherwise? And who said that the observance of Saturday is no longer required for Christians?

If there are hints or indirect evidence of Sunday observance in Scripture why did Gibbon say “you may search from Genesis to Revelation and you will NOT FIND A SINGLE LINE authorizing the sanctification of Sunday”? And where are these “hints” so that we may examine them? And how great a God you have to just give us hints to change His law which had been there since our creation! And didn’t He say He is the only lawgiver?

I thought someone here said the RCC has never taught anything contrary to Scripture. This is clearly one of them. No honest person can deny that.

You’re right. If I reject tradition and go by Bible only I would have to observe Saturday. In other words, the Sunday tradition is contrary to the teachings in the Bible. But the RCC claims its tradition is never contrary to the Scriptures.
Gibbon is right, there is not a line in scripture authorizing the sanctification of Sunday–and nobody said there was. Gibbon was not talking about hints, he was talking about something explicit, which isn’t there.

Scripture did not authorize Sunday, it was the early church under the direction of the apostles did that did so. How is this proven? You can’t. It is simply tradition, and if traditon is rejected, there is no authorization for Sunday. That is the paradox with Protestant denominations, they don’t recognize the authority of tradition, but nevertheless still continue Sunday worship!

The “hints” are bits of circumstantial evidence of Sunday worhip by the NT Christians. Acts 20:7, “And on the first day of the week when we were gathered together to break bread…” Was this a worship occasion? By tradition, we know breaking bread is the Eucharist, a worship on Sunday. But, without tradtion, what does ‘breaking bread’ mean? It’s possible they were merely having a potluck for Paul before he left.

The other bit of indirect evidence is the reference to collecting contributions on the first day of the week. (Probably in Acts, but I couldn’t find it.) The inference is that the contributions were collected in conjunction with a worship service, as is done today. But, maybe not.

John received his revelation on the “Lord’s Day.” Sunday is traditionally called the Lord’s Day, but, again, if you place no value on tradition…

That the Sabbath is not required for Christians is again an apostolic teaching, which we know from tradtion, and the proper interpretation of scripture in the light of tradition. (You may also ask a Jehovah’s Witness about the sabbath, because from my understanding they don’t recognize one either. I should ask a JW sometime about this for their explanation.)

Catholics say the Catholic Church authorized Sunday worship because Catholics believe the Catholic Church was the church of the Apostles.

For Protestant churches, they don’t think the early church was Catholic, but they do recognize the authority of the early church.

Protestant churches, and Orthodox also teach Sunday, so it is not only the RCC who “teaches contrary to scripture.”

Yes, this is all the logical consequence of “sola scriptura.” If you operate under “bible only,” the assumption that everything the apostles taught is recorded in scripture, it’s hard to justify Sunday worhip, nor many other historical Christian teachings and practices as well.
 
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***This thread is off topic (Sola Scriptura) and wandering further.

Please return to topic or open new threads on these side issues or this thread will be closed.

There are several threads fairly extant on the Sunday Sabbath debate so search them and take that discussion there.

Do not derail this thread.
Very sincerely,***
 
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***This thread is off topic (Sola Scriptura) and wandering further.

Please return to topic or open new threads on these side issues or this thread will be closed.

There are several threads fairly extant on the Sunday Sabbath debate so search them and take that discussion there.

Do not derail this thread.
Very sincerely,***
I love the smiley. 😃

I was hoping you would just put us out of our misery. :coffeeread:
 
Laudater Jesus Christus!

Peace to all who read this thread.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Can we base our beliefs (faith) and practice solely/only in the Holy Scripture?

:hmmm:

I said Yes & No, & clicked - & only then did I see that the question on the poll was a different one 😦 : “Is the Holy Scripture the final authority in matters of faith and practice?”​

So I want to change my answer to: Yes, “the Holy Scripture [is] the final authority in matters of faith and practice”,in, with, & under Christ.
 

I said Yes & No, & clicked - & only then did I see that the question on the poll was a different one 😦 : “Is the Holy Scripture the final authority in matters of faith and practice?”​

So I want to change my answer to: Yes, “the Holy Scripture [is] the final authority in matters of faith and practice”,in, with, & under Christ.
What does it have to say about embryonic stem cell research?
 
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