Some American Catholics really don’t like Pope Francis. Here’s why

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You are questioning the Pope and not giving complete and serene faith in the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

All of our Popes for the last 150 years at least have been exceedingly holy men.
There have been many that have been chosen by the Holy Spirit who have gone the wrong way. Even with good intentions. Popes included.

It is totally irrelevant to bring up how holy Popes have been over the last 150 years. That has nothing to do with THIS POPE.

I am also asking for help and I have received none. I have faith that the Holy Spirit will separate the wheat from the weeds. One of the things we can learn from scripture is there is always a Judas among us.

I am not a perfect person and I need mercy daily. I struggle with a lot of things. Trust that.

I am just very concerned about all of these things. I cannot believe you are not concerned at all.
 
However, when I mention the fact that THIS POPE is taking advice from an admitted atheist and he uses the advice from that person to make encyclicals to us, it is not alarming?
I don’t think that is an accurate description. Discussing the environment with atheists isn’t bad, it is one area where we can have common ground with them. Pope Benedict is the pope who created the commission for dialog with atheists, I think, and I don’t think we should be alarmed that Pope Francis spoke with one about the environment. In fact, Pope Francis discusses in his encyclical why atheism is anti-environmental: because the world only has value due to being a creature of God.
Especially considering the socialist rhetoric, which is all about redistribution of wealth? The propaganda that the free market system is so evil?
Examples?
Well I can name a lot of things the free market has given to humanity. I mentioned in another thread that the big luxury airline the Pope flies around in for example.
The pope has praised the free market and production and business. I provided an example earlier. Where has he condemned them?
Why is THIS POPE always pointing out the evils of capitalism and hardly says anything about the evils of totalitarian regimes.
Can you give an example of where he condemns capitalism? Also: Laudato Si condemns centralization and a lack of concern for people’s rights.

Laudato Si 90 - “At times we see an obsession with denying any pre-eminence to the human person; more zeal is shown in protecting other species than in defending the dignity which all human beings share in equal measure. Certainly, we should be concerned lest other living beings be treated irresponsibly. But we should be particularly indignant at the enormous inequalities in our midst, whereby we continue to tolerate some considering themselves more worthy than others. … In practice, we continue to tolerate that some consider themselves more human than others, as if they had been born with greater rights.”

Laudato Si 196 - “What happens with politics? Let us keep in mind the principle of subsidiarity, which grants freedom to develop the capabilities present at every level of society, while also demanding a greater sense of responsibility for the common good from those who wield greater power.”
 
? The propaganda that the free market system is so evil? Well I can name a lot of things the free market has given to humanity. I mentioned in another thread that the big luxury airline the Pope flies around in for example. I wonder what the carbon footprint is with that.
He doesn t have a plane nor a luxury airline.They charter flights
Reporters basically pay for the flights and fly with him.
Guilliam posted a thread " Fun facts about the papal plane " or something like that.,sorry can t remember exactly.
Luxury is a word quite foreign to the Pope. His austerity is and has always been well known.
 
What I know is that I am a convert to Catholicism around 2002. I would never have done that if this man had been the pope at the time. I guess that is all I should say.😦
 
What I know is that I am a convert to Catholicism around 2002. I would never have done that if this man had been the pope at the time. I guess that is all I should say.😦
That’s an unfortunate post.
 
The AGW alarmists is clearly being used as a classic socialist style redistribution of wealth. It is guised under this “concern for the environment.”

It ought to alarm everyone that is in any way devout that THIS POPE has sought the advice of person who is a professed atheist.

Hans Schellnhuber, a professed atheist, is founding director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Germany.

http://www.investors.com/image/h22ans_345.jpg.cms

The Pope’s rhetoric has clearly been left leaning and socialist. He clearly believes in it. I have not seen him at criticize those totalitarian governments. Governments whose treatment and violations of human rights are so disgusting that it really does not need to be stated. We all know it.

This global warming industry (btw the world leaders no longer call it that. It is climate change) has become a 1.5 TRILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY. It is clearly being used as a type of trojan horse to take advantage of the gullible and naive. It is absolutely being used to redistribute wealth.

Anyone here remember Pope John Paul II? His stances against the totalitarian regimes? It is rather hard for me to not consider that the Church leaders are seeing the big decline in parishioners and that means decline in revenue. Let us not kid ourselves that that is no factor.

Combine that with the massive banking scams and for the first time in many centuries there are TWO POPES.

Can someone please help me cause I am in a huge spiritual crisis. Where am I going wrong?
Why are you in spiritual crisis? The pope can believe and profess whatever he wants about political and scientific questions. And he may very well be wrong, too. The pope’s authoritative competency is limited to the Catholic faith and the governance of the Church. Maybe the pope is ignorant about political matters or maybe he isn’t. He could even theoretically be a total charlatain. So what? Your faith is in Jesus amd his Church, even if the human members of that Church are tough to deal with.
 
You are questioning the Pope and not giving complete and serene faith in the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

All of our Popes for the last 150 years at least have been exceedingly holy men.
There is nothing wrong with questioning the scientific assumptions of popes. They aren’t demigods or even necessarily scientists. When I want to learn about global warming data, a pope is one of the last people I would ask.
 
The AGW alarmists is clearly being used as a classic socialist style redistribution of wealth. It is guised under this “concern for the environment.”
This could be true. I don’t really know. I can’t see where the money is coming/going, on a broad scale. I suppose this could be true though.
It ought to alarm everyone that is in any way devout that THIS POPE has sought the advice of person who is a professed atheist.
I am devout. I’m not alarmed. Perhaps you will therefore think I’m not really devout because of this. I would certainly be alarmed if the pope sought the advice of an atheist in theological matters. He didn’t, though. So, I’m not really concerned.

Moreover, the pope didn’t seek guidance. He sought technical knowledge. That’s a significant difference. “Advice” is maybe not the best term, in that regard.
The Pope’s rhetoric has clearly been left leaning and socialist. He clearly believes in it. I have not seen him at criticize those totalitarian governments. Governments whose treatment and violations of human rights are so disgusting that it really does not need to be stated. We all know it.
Totalitarianism, socialism, communism, etc… these are not inherently evil. They are structures, modes of governing. Historically, great evils have been associated with them because evil men have used such governments in dominating and destructive ways. The Church, believe it or not, actually does not propose any one form of government as better than another. It is how those governments are used, how people are treated under such governments, that the Church has a voice about.

For example, the Church does not condemn the Chinese government because of the fact that it IS communist. Rather it condemns it because of how it actively limits the freedoms of it’s population.

But guess what. The Church also condemns democratic, capitalist governments too, when they do the same things, or when they fail to uphold moral positions. If Pope Francis speaks on behalf of the poor, or when he condemns unrestrained pursuit of capital and greed, that doesn’t make him “Socialist” any more condemning Communist Russia made Pope John Paul II a democratic capitalist.

Let’s be frank here. The Catholic Church is a theocratic hierarchy. That’s not democratic. It’s not communist. It’s not any other political format. It has more in common with Muslim governmental structure than it does with America’s.
This global warming industry (btw the world leaders no longer call it that. It is climate change) has become a 1.5 TRILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY. It is clearly being used as a type of trojan horse to take advantage of the gullible and naive. It is absolutely being used to redistribute wealth.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. Who am I to say. I don’t think it’s a “clear” matter though.
Anyone here remember Pope John Paul II? His stances against the totalitarian regimes? It is rather hard for me to not consider that the Church leaders are seeing the big decline in parishioners and that means decline in revenue. Let us not kid ourselves that that is no factor.
Do you remember when Nazi Germany conquered Poland? Pope John Paul II lived through that. Who do we have to thank for the end of Nazi Germany? Most people will say the Western Allies. But Russia sacrificed millions more men than all the allied nations put together in order to defeat Germany. We should be grateful.

But Pope John Paul II wasn’t anti-Communism in principle. This position he took was specifically directed toward Russia. This is because communist Russia had designs to destroy the Catholic Church, which has been the single greatest bulwark against militant atheism that has ever been. Pope John Paul II, as leader of the Church, had a vested interest in seeing that government fail.
Combine that with the massive banking scams and for the first time in many centuries there are TWO POPES.
I’m not sure “scam” is the right word here. There was scandal, for sure, and little transparency, but keep in mind that the Vatican is it’s own city-state. It’s central bank is as obliged to be transparent about its dealings as any country is. That is to say, it’s not obliged unless it is a member state of the UN, in which case as a member state you’ve agreed to financial transparency.

Guess what, the Vatican isn’t a member state. It’s also not a member of the EU. So why was it forced to disclose it’s financial position, when it had no obligation to do so? It didn’t have to, by any legal standard. Yet, it did, as a measure of good faith.
 
My brother posted an article talking about how the pope said this and how it shows hes not in touch with reality. Can anyone help?
 
That is really reassuring that there are those out there who loved Benedict and the traditional ways, but are still open and respectful towards Pope Francis and his challenges to us. It demonstrates a real loyalty to the seat of Peter that rises above personalities.

One thing I have a different take on than the author regards why Pope Francis doesn’t correct the misleading media reports more often. I had actually read last year that Pope Francis doesn’t pay much attention to media as in scanning newspapers and television commentators. I think that is probably a very deliberate and Ignatian choice. When I did the spiritual exercises back in 2011, my spiritual director recommended that I not watch anything that was violent or racked with drama including all the news coverage, as Ignatian spirituality requires that you are open and attentive to both Gods voice through the day… and you need to be disposed with calm alertness for discernment. I would imagine that Pope Francis takes this seriously as a way of life.

Another thing that I sometimes wonder is, does he sneak a peak at CAF at times. It has seemed that he has addressed issues on quite a lot of occasions that have been hot button topics at the time on CAF! :eek:
 
That is really reassuring that there are those out there who loved Benedict and the traditional ways, but are still open and respectful towards Pope Francis and his challenges to us. It demonstrates a real loyalty to the seat of Peter that rises above personalities.
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Folks also need to know that Benedict was no ultra conservative in the American sense.

He spoke about the environment- really the first Pope to do so in a substantive way. He spoke about animal welfare- even stating that he was morally opposed to foil gras.

He also decried gross wage inequality and wished for the UN to have “more teeth” in imposing international law. He was a big proponent of international cooperation and even international oversight.

:
 
Folks also need to know that Benedict was no ultra conservative in the American sense.

He spoke about the environment- really the first Pope to do so in a substantive way. He spoke about animal welfare- even stating that he was morally opposed to foil gras.

He also decried gross wage inequality and wished for the UN to have “more teeth” in imposing international law. He was a big proponent of international cooperation and even international oversight.

:
The thing I truly do not get is this: how is it that the Pope gets categorized as conservative/liberal when all he is doing is preaching the Gospel? He hasn’t changed a single Church teaching that I know of. Has politics/ideology completely submerged the message of Christ? If He returned today in disguise, which side would we assign Him to?
 
Folks also need to know that Benedict was no ultra conservative in the American sense.

He spoke about the environment- really the first Pope to do so in a substantive way. He spoke about animal welfare- even stating that he was morally opposed to foil gras.

He also decried gross wage inequality and wished for the UN to have “more teeth” in imposing international law. He was a big proponent of international cooperation and even international oversight.

:
Also, throughout the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s he brought the nagging issue of the divorced/remarried back to the table for theological examination, so that obviously wasn’t as taboo as the US conservatives imagine the question to be.
 
Also, throughout the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s he brought the nagging issue of the divorced/remarried back to the table for theological examination, so that obviously wasn’t as taboo as the US conservatives imagine the question to be.
I guess we can say that Benedict was a liturgist and brought some of the more elaborate aspects of liturgy and papal attire to the public. This seems to have caused folks to think that he was an ultra-conservative when liturgy and accoutrements are really neither conservative or liberal as they have no relation to economic or governmental theory.

I lean pretty far to the left- for example- and I am a big fan of the EF and more stately liturgy.
 
I guess we can say that Benedict was a liturgist and brought some of the more elaborate aspects of liturgy and papal attire to the public. This seems to have caused folks to think that he was an ultra-conservative when liturgy and accoutrements are really neither conservative or liberal as they have no relation to economic or governmental theory.

I lean pretty far to the left- for example- and I am a big fan of the EF and more stately liturgy.
Yes, true. I have always been more right of center and attended my last Latin Mass when it was phased out when I was about 10. I very much prefer the OF because the pomp and ceremony seems uncomfortably at odds with Jesus life, death and resurrection as I experience it.
 
Also, throughout the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s he brought the nagging issue of the divorced/remarried back to the table for theological examination, so that obviously wasn’t as taboo as the US conservatives imagine the question to be.
He mentioned it an essay and them later retracted the comment and concluded firmly that the Magisterium could permit no such practice. Indeed as pope Benedict reiterated the timeless teaching of the Church with regards to the divorced and remarried, as his predecessor did and of course as Francis will do. A theologian examines things in a way that a pope obviously does not, so what Ratzinger did as a scholar would obviously look a little less guarded than what he did as pope.
 
Yes, true. I have always been more right of center and attended my last Latin Mass when it was phased out when I was about 10. I very much prefer the OF because the pomp and ceremony seems uncomfortably at odds with Jesus life, death and resurrection as I experience it.
Isn’t that interesting? See that liturgic preference stands outside of political leanings.
 
My brother posted an article talking about how the pope said this and how it shows hes not in touch with reality. Can anyone help?
Can you post a link to the article, and does the article cite a source with the surrounding context of when the Pope supposedly said this?

If there is no article or not citation, the chances are it’s either a misquote, or made up. It could also be something that has been mistranslated or taken out of context.

The Pope may also have been speaking on the greatness of the evil of disenfranchised youth and neglected elderly. Both things are truly evil because they rob people of their human dignity.
 
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