Some Christians Still Denounce Harry Potter as Dangerous

[rlg94086]

For those Catholics who believe what Pope Benedict XVI said regarding Harry Potter can be discarded to the rubbish heap, as he didn’t speak Ex Cathedra—I ask you, when your Priest gives a Homily, or gives you Spiritual Guidance in the Confessional-he too is not speaking Ex Cathedra.

Do you then also decide for yourself if you should take to heart or disregard his direction for your life?

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

Please see forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7299492&postcount=455 , so I don’t have to repost it again. Since Cardinal Ratzinger referred Kuby to Msgr Fleetwood, why would you assume that Cardinal Ratzinger was firm in his comments? Why would you discard Msgr Fleetwood’s comments to the rubbish bin? If Cardinal Ratzinger valued his opinion on the matter, shouldn’t we?

 

[curlycool89]

For those Catholics who believe what Pope Benedict XVI said regarding Harry Potter can be discarded to the rubbish heap, as he didn’t speak Ex Cathedra—I ask you, when your Priest gives a Homily, or gives you Spiritual Guidance in the Confessional-he too is not speaking Ex Cathedra.

Do you then also decide for yourself if you should take to heart or disregard his direction for your life?

Actually, during a speaking series on the spiritual life our chaplain always said “If it speaks to you, make it your own. If it’s doesn’t, then let it go”.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

Show us that he hasn’t read a Harry Potter book or saw a Harry Potter movie.
Most would assume he had before making determinations.
With his reputation at stake, the damage to this Highly Visible Catholic Authority would be high if he willy-nilly went around and made statements-not knowing what he was talking about, wouldn’t you think?
…

I wouldn’t know of his reputation since I’d never heard of him before this HP thread. Anyone making an claim as an expert has got to state the factual basis for the claim and he’s no different. And all I’m seeing is an opinion.

Your source, which I’ve seen now several times, it doesn’t help. This article doesn’t say he’s read or seen the movie. Having read all of the linked sources in this ever expanding thread, I’m now convinced he’s not done so. The article you linked doesn’t even say this.

 

[irishpatrick]

I wouldn’t know of his reputation since I’d never heard of him before this HP thread. Anyone making an claim as an expert has got to state the factual basis for the claim and he’s no different. And all I’m seeing is an opinion.

Your source, which I’ve seen now several times, it doesn’t help. This article doesn’t say he’s read or seen the movie. Having read all of the linked sources in this ever expanding thread, I’m now convinced he’s not done so. The article you linked doesn’t even say this.

Enough of this nonsense!

Father has made it clear that there IS a cause and effect with HP and Twilight. He is absolutely NOT stating opinon, he is stating fact based on this observance when helping people. You might want tables and charts and sciientific studies and all sorts of nonsense like that, but the simple truth is the man bases his statements on his own observations, not on his own opinons. If an expert’s personal opinion falls short for you, than nothing will satisfy you.

Beyond that this is actually a matter of faith and NOT science. Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence and I do NOT see the Church trying to scientifically prove its truth to them. They either believe Christ, or they do not. And, you either believe Father or you do not, but make no mistake he bases his statements on observation…not opinion or conjecture.

Furthermore, whether or not Father has read the books is a non-starter and utterly unimportant. In fact his testimony would be much stronger if he has never read the books because he would not go into his actions and observations with a tainted point of view. Father observes what happens as a result of reading/viewing HP and Twilight…it is utterly umimportant for him to have read the books or seen the movies. If he sees X happen and he discovers that Y (reading/viewing HP and Twilight) is one of the reasons for X happening, than he does not need to read HP to observe X. Period. That is beyond any doubt your precious evidence–it is just not wrapped in a grand study for you to pick apart and analyze.

Further, Father was giving a fair warning based on his observations. He owes you NOTHING more than a warning of what can happen as seen by his own observations. He is NOT involved in a scientific study to please you. People do not have to listen, but stop calling his statements opinions.

It is called FAITH for a reason.

*

**Father Euteneuer does not speak as a theorist. **Since 2003 he’s had extensive experience ministering to those possessed by demons. His introduction to the demonic world happened when a family asked him for help for one of their members, and he eventually asked for permission to perform the rite of exorcism. He has been doing them ever since.

Exorcism and the Church Militant is intended, in part, as a warning to parents who allow their children to be desensitized to “the dark world” by books and films like the Harry Potter series and the vampire books of Stephanie Meyer. Father Euteneuer told me possession is almost always a result of someone getting involved in some sort of occult practices, such as witchcraft, Wicca, tarot cards, and Ouiji boards.

“Harry Potter and these Twilight vampires glamorize the power of evil,” Father Eutenener explained, “**and this has lead to many, many cases of possession among young people.” *It may begin with a child or teenager simply “playing around” with the occult, but that seemingly harmless act is “opening a window” to possession. ​

Father does not say, “it might,” rather he says, “it has lead.” He has observed what has happened many times, it is NOT an opinion, it is not a guess, it is real observance and report by the good Father.

If you need to do so, go ahead and reject what Father says from his own observations, but either way:

Enough of this Nonsense!

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

…
Father has made it clear that there IS a cause and effect with HP and Twilight. He is absolutely NOT stating opinon, he is stating fact based on this observance when helping people. You might want tables and charts and sciientific studies and all sorts of nonsense like that, but the simple truth is the man bases his statements on his own observations, not on his own opinons. If an expert’s personal opinion falls short for you, than nothing will satisfy you. …

In the real world, experts don’t opine until he or she first states the facts the opinion is based on. I’d like to see what facts that he claims links Harry Potter to demonic possession, even ONE case where this is so. The first HP novel is now over 13 years old, so where are the HP=demonic possession files? There don’t seem to be any.

 

[irishpatrick]

In the real world, experts don’t opine until he or she first states the facts the opinion is based on. I’d like to see what facts that he claims links Harry Potter to demonic possession, even ONE case where this is so. The first HP novel is now over 13 years old, so where are the HP=demonic possession files? There don’t seem to be any.

So, according to you Father is a liar. Great!

I have zero doubt there are files. I also have zero doubt that they are private files because I cannot fathom people going through this would want the public to be able to access their horrific problems. I also have zero doubt that there is not some grand study being formed just to make you happy. Father has made it clear what DOES happen. If it is not enough that an actual expert states these facts (from someone who knows waaay more than you or I about this subject), than just say so and move on. But, stop saying it is not evidence based, or that it just opinions…Father’s statements are based on facts derived from his own real life observations. He has done the just and right thing by warning people. He owes nothing more to you or to anyone else. You either accept he is telling the truth, or not. But you really need to change your tune about there not being any evidence, or that Father needs to have read the books, etc…you must now see that is utter nonsense.

BTW, Father did not simply opine (as you state), he gave real world facts about the situation. They are just not dressed up in a fancy study for you to rip apart, so you are not happy with his statements. Father gave the real world the cause and effect that he personally has observed. I really doubt he will feel worried that his presentation did not meet your standards.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

So, according to you Father is a liar. Great!..s.

That’s very uncharitable of you and you shouldn’t be putting words in other people’s mouths.

I said he hasn’t given a factual basis for his claim that reading the Harry Potter books or watching the movies has resulted in anyone being demonically possessed. After 13 years, the evidence should be abundant, but where is it?

 

[curlycool89]

Father has made it clear that there IS a cause and effect with HP and Twilight.

No, a cause and effect requires a little something called facts. You can only call something a “fact” after it has been studies using the scientific method, and that requires reproducible results. As he has not given us his method for us to test for reproducibility, you cannot call it a fact. That’s the whole point behind peer review in science. Just because Father says so it does not make it true.

He is absolutely NOT stating opinon, he is stating fact based on this observance when helping people. You might want tables and charts and sciientific studies and all sorts of nonsense like that, but the simple truth is the man bases his statements on his own observations, not on his own opinons. If an expert’s personal opinion falls short for you, than nothing will satisfy you.

Oh, so it’s the Humanities version of a “fact”. See, as an engineer I don’t acknowledge that as as fact but an opinion, just like I’d consider a psychiatrist to have an opinion or an economist to have an opinion.

Beyond that this is actually a matter of faith and NOT science. Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence and I do NOT see the Church trying to scientifically prove its truth to them. They either believe Christ, or they do not. And, you either believe Father or you do not, but make no mistake he bases his statements on observation…not opinion or conjecture.

Because that is actually faith. There’s nothing in the teachings of the Church that say “Harry Potter is evil”.

Furthermore, whether or not Father has read the books is a non-starter and utterly unimportant. In fact his testimony would be much stronger if he has never read the books because he would not go into his actions and observations with a tainted point of view.

That’s a load of c*** and you know it. Commenting on a literary work without reading it is called fraud. If I were to give a report on a Shakespeare play I haven’t read for example it would be a lie. I’d almost call it plagiarism.

Further, Father was giving a fair warning based on his observations. He owes you NOTHING more than a warning of what can happen as seen by his own observations. He is NOT involved in a scientific study to please you. People do not have to listen, but stop calling his statements opinions.

There are facts, and there are opinions. As I’ve said above, what he says cannot be a fact and therefore must be an opinion.

 

[ORD_NASILA]

You are quite right of course Jharek, the Bible is the most dangerous book of all. Many wars have been fought in defense of it, and countless lives lost. And yet it is paradoxical having as it does the power to change the World for the better.

God Bless you Jharek!

                        Regards,    ORD.

 *"Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows" *(Matt.10:31)

 

[ORD_NASILA]

In the real world, experts don’t opine until he or she first states the facts the opinion is based on. I’d like to see what facts that he claims links Harry Potter to demonic possession, even ONE case where this is so. The first HP novel is now over 13 years old, so where are the HP=demonic possession files? There don’t seem to be any.

Pretty hard to prove don’t you think Reservoir Dog? However, it was said of Charles Manson that the Beatles song “Helter Skelter” was the thing that pushed him over the edge, isn’t that so?

Christian Regards, ORD.
*"Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows" *(Matt.10:31)

 

[Christine85]

I think at the end of the day in the Bible it warns against witchcraft and wizardry, why then would you follow these things for entertainment purposes, your therefore entertaining your interest in these things and toiling with fire… I have personally experienced these things as I used to be a new agist …

 

[ORD_NASILA]

Are you serious Jharek? I just can’t imagine your Prime Minister donning the robes and chanting the mantras.
Christian Regards, ORD.

 

[ORD_NASILA]

Rowling purports to be a Christian and that her faith influenced her writing.

In charity, I’ll take her at her word, although I will make two comments about the above:

1. If Christianity influenced her work, it’s far less evident than as with Tolkein or Lewis.
2. Faith aside, Tolkein and Lewis were on different literary and philosophical levels than Rowling. Whereas Rowling is competent and imaginative, they are simply brilliant.

Just for the sake of interest, what is your take on the Brothers Grimm?

Christian Regards, ORD

 

[DawnInTexas]

You’re leaving without providing one piece of evidence that shows anyone has been harmed by HP and those books and movies have been around for almost 10 years. All you’ve done is argue, mostly by authority, and argument is not evidence.

3 Major Exorcists in the Catholic Church have called Harry Potter dangerous to the enticement of souls-especially children, to the Occult.

+

Bishops in the Catholic Church have stated we need more Exorcists.

=

There is an increase in the need for Exorcists.

BTW, I don’t know about the Anglican Church, but in the Catholic Church, these Exorcists are also Priests. We take direction, as laity, from the Priesthood-it is our Faith-especially when it comes to Faith & Morals.

It is called Faith not Proof.

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

 

[DawnInTexas]

I think at the end of the day in the Bible it warns against witchcraft and wizardry, why then would you follow these things for entertainment purposes, your therefore entertaining your interest in these things and toiling with fire… I have personally experienced these things as I used to be a new agist …

Hopefully, through Reconciliation-you were able to remove any attachments you may have had.

Some need an Exorcism to do this.

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

 

[DawnInTexas]

I’m glad you believe that both sides include faithful Catholics. I would not agree that the earlier comments in the thread describing those who don’t agree that HP leads to the occult as “weak Catholics” and Catholics who are not “serious about their faith” was fair or charitable.

And? There you have it.

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

Isaiah 5:20
20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil, who change darkness into light, and light into darkness, who change bitter into sweet, and sweet into bitter!

 

[PRmerger]

I think at the end of the day in the Bible it warns against witchcraft and wizardry, why then would you follow these things for entertainment purposes, your therefore entertaining your interest in these things and toiling with fire… I have personally experienced these things as I used to be a new agist …

I think it’s a matter of degree. We all (Christians) agree, I presume, that seances and things of that ilk are dangerous and forbidden. And that Lectio Divina and other spiritual readings are good.

It’s just that area in the middle–is Lord of the Rings forbidden? It has wizards. What about the Wizard of Oz? What about the 60’s TV show Bewitched? And Aladdin? Should we not listen to a song about magic carpet rides?

That’s the area where good Catholics are free to discern, disagree and discuss.

 

[DawnInTexas]

I have no idea, but I don’t recall that as the context for the use of those terms.

I think the Catholics on the thread are strong, serious, faithful Catholics. One poster implied that they won’t escape Hell because they are leading children to the occult. What do you think? Are those who don’t agree with you about Harry Potter destined for Hell? Are they weak in their faith?

If you are speaking of me, you didn’t read all the posts.

The toys and books of spells and incantations-are practicing the occult.

Just like the Catholic Authorities quoted whose lead all Serious, Practicing Catholics should follow stated-the movies and books are the doorway (or window) to the Occult .

Like Pat wrote, why take a chance? Who knows just who will succumb?

What parent, knowing these risks would knowingly expose their children to such danger for their souls, is all.

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

 

[ORD_NASILA]

Huh. I remember seeing it and thinking, “Really. She could have gone home at any time if she had just clicked her heels. So why in the world didn’t anyone tell her that?? Who would just know that without being told?”

I’ve never seen it since.

Biggest waste o’ time IMHO.

However, because it has wizards and witches you’re opposed to it? Is that correct? And Lord of the Rings Trilogy? And Bewtiched? And I Dream of Jeanne?

Well yes PR, If I am to obey the Commandments of God then, as Luther said, “I can do no other” I’ve heard that the Lord of the Rings is excellent from a literary standpoint, but it’s occult theme would preclude me from reading it. However, as for nose twitching Samantha, and bottle dwelling Jeanne, I didn’t know that there were books of those, in any case - Yawn!!!

Christian Regards, ORD.
*"Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows"* (Matt. 10:31)

 

[DawnInTexas]

I think it’s a matter of degree. We all (Christians) agree, I presume, that seances and things of that ilk are dangerous and forbidden. And that Lectio Divina and other spiritual readings are good.

It’s just that area in the middle–is Lord of the Rings forbidden? It has wizards. What about the Wizard of Oz? What about the 60’s TV show Bewitched? And Aladdin? Should we not listen to a song about magic carpet rides?

That’s the area where good Catholics are free to discern, disagree and discuss.

Many items in the Table of Contents (in just 1 book I posted) - post # 208 on page 14-should make many Catholics’ spine shiver. Here-I’ll copy it again (Check it out-THIRD EDITION-this is very popular!):

The Sorcerer’s Companion: A Guide to the Magical World of Harry Potter, Third Edition

Table of Contents

Amulet + The Evil Eye + 1,3
Arithmancy + 4
Astrology + Disaster and Disease + 10, 14

• The Zodiac + 15
• The Meaning Of The Planets + 18
  Banshee + 19
  Basilisk + The Basilisk Today + 21, 23
  Bezoar + 24
  Cat + Cat Tails + 31, 33
  Cauldron + 35
  Centaur + 38

Charm + “Charmed, I’m Sure” + 40, 41
Chimera + Meet the Parents + 42, 43
Circe + 45
Crystal Ball + 48
Curse + Licensed to Curse + 51, 53

• The Mummy’s Curse 54
  Dark Arts + 55
  Demon + How To Recognize a Demon + 59, 62
  Divination + The Mantic Arts + 63, 66
• A Brief History of Tarot + 70
  Dragons + Dragons of the East + 72, 73
  Dreams + 75
  Dwarf + 78
  Elf + The Elf’s New Clothes + 80, 82
  Fairy + The Tooth Fairy + 83, 85
• The Cottingley Fairies + 86
• Fairy Rings + 88
  Fluffy + 89
  Flying Carpet + 91
  Forbidden Forest + 93
  Ghost + 95
  Ghoul + 98
  Giant + A Giant Sampler + 99, 103
• Big Bones + 106
  Gnome + 108

Goblin + 109
Griffin + 111
Grim + 113
Grindylow + 115
Hag + 116
Hand of Glory + 118
Herbology + 121
Hex + 124
Hinkypunk + 126
Hippogriff + Animals on Trial + 128, 129
Horcrux + That Which Must Be Named + 130, 133
Horoscope + 134
Invisibility Cloak + 136
Jinx + A Modern Jinx + 139, 140
Kappa + 142
Legilimency + 144
Leprechan + The Farmer and The Leprechan + 148, 150
Magic + 151
Magician + 163
Magic Mirror + Mirror Superstitions + 176, 179
Magic Wand + The Caduccus + 180, 183

• The Magic Club + 184
  Magic Words + A Little Hocus Pocus + 185, 188
  Mandrake + Mandrake Safety + 190, 192

Manticore + 193
Merlin + 195
Mermaid/Merman + Mermaid Relatives + 199, 200
Morgana + The Fata Morgana + 203, 205
Mummy + 206
Nicholas Flamel + 208
Owl + 212
Palmistry + 213
Paracelsus + 217
Petrification + 221
Phoenix + 223
Poltergeist + 227
Potion + Essential Ingredients + 229, 232
Prophecy + Cassandra + 235, 245
Red Cap + 246
Runes + Rune Casting + 247, 249
Salamander + 250
Snake + 252
Sorcerer + 255
Sorcerer’s Stone + The Making of the Stone + 257, 261

• The Faking of the Stone + 262
  Spell + 264
  Sphinx + 266

Spider + Spider Superstitions from around the World + 268, 271
Stag + 272
Talisman + 274
Tea-Leaf Reading + 277
Toad + Toadstones + 283, 285
Transfiguration + Quick-Change Artist + 286, 290
Troll + 291
Unicorn + Hornswoggled + 294, 296
Vampire + 298
Veela + 301
The Veil + 303
Werewolf + “Real” Werewolves + 307, 309
Witch + The Witches Familiar + 310, 313
Witch Persecution + Why Were Witches Women? + 315, 320
Wizard + Wizard Wear + 321, 324
Yeti + 327
Zombie + 329

---

See anything there-anything at all that throws up a red flag?

Anything at all not allowed in the Catholic Faith?

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn