Some Respectfull Questions for Muslims

[Valke2]

In some ways, I do, too. However, is it not funny to you, a Jew, that the Name above all Names that God chose for himself and given to Moses (That I will not try to write here), is not one of them?

You could pull the titles for God from the Jewish Scriptures (Old Testement), and get a good list to contemplate.

Yes, There are many names for God in the Torah. Some similar to the list of the 99.

 

[Valke2]

Perhaps they do not wish to associate themselves with a Jewish brand of the Big Guy’s Name? Mohammad loved the concept of Jewish monotheism, but didn’t want to plagiarize the religion blindly. He may have been illiterate but definitely not without creativity.

I think a better answer is that the 99 names each embody an attribute of G. God’s true name, however, is beyond attributes

 

[severntofall]

Hello.

5-Concubines. Shabbir Akhtar has pointed out that the Qur’an does not initiate the practice of concubinage but simply regulates it and that consequently Muslims are free to disregard the whole ugly practice. While this is encouraging, and the Qur’an has many wonderful passages extolling the merits of freeing conscripted individuals, it still seems a moral failing that Muslims men may impose themselves upon those “their right hands possesses”. I guess this is a bit flimsy, yet it is still discomforting.

Fact: Not only did Muhammed not oppose this reality, he participated in it. It would have been very easy for him to have taken a stand on the matter, but he didn’t.

 

[neploho]

Fact: Not only did Muhammed not oppose this reality, he participated in it. It would have been very easy for him to have taken a stand on the matter, but he didn’t.

Abraham had Hargar.

 

[neploho]

Salaam/ Peace

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Jihad does not mean killing any innocent non-Muslims . But Islam also does not teach us to turn other cheek . It will encourage the sinner to do more crimes. We must help those who are oppressed.

God says in holy Quran : And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah, and for those weak, illtreated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is:

“Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help.”

( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #75)

The Verse of the Sword: The Final Word?

Name of Counselor: Ahmad Saad

…This verse is normally quoted outside of its context. In reading this verse we should read the preceding and the subsequent verses. These verses refer to a certain group of idolaters who did not respect their treaty with Muslims.

Rather, they slew them and prevented them from practicing their religious freedom. They also launched a massive war against Muslims everywhere and forced them to leave their houses.

Against these non-believing oppressors Muslims are justified, as much from the Quranic background as from logical background, to fight back in a defensive jihad.

Therefore, the verse speaks about defense, not attack. This is proved by the subsequent verses that command protection of any non-believer who seeks protection, delivering him to the place where he feels secure without causing him any threat.

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1199279330532

Fighting Verses in the Quran

Name of Counselor: Shahul Hameed

Surat At-Tawbah was revealed to the Prophet in a situation when the pagans were at war with the newly organized Muslim Ummah (nation); and the Muslims were fighting them for survival.

One of the issues dealt with in this verse is how to treat those who break existing treaties and the Muslims, specifically, are asked to fight those who break treaties, until they were thoroughly routed or they repented and agreed to follow the conditions imposed on them, which will ultimately be for the good of all.

Jizyah is a much misunderstood tax the non-Muslims were asked to pay to the government in lieu of the Muslims’ payment of zakah.

By paying the jizyah non-Muslims were guaranteed protection and rights including the right to worship as they chose, as long as they did not conspire against the Islamic authority. This can be equated nowadays to ‘nationality’ or ‘citizenship’.

It is important to note that many times throughout Islamic history Christians and Jews opted to pay the jizyah and live under Muslim authority rather than the other options available to them under the various empires and ruling bodies.

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996016466

I don’t think there is any such verse in Quran.

related verses :

It is He Who made the Sun a shining thing and the moon as a light and measured out its (their) stages, that you might know the number of years and the reckoning.

Allah did not create this but in truth. He explains the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) in detail for people who have knowledge.

( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #5)

And He has made the Sun and the moon, both constantly pursuing their courses, to be of service to you; and He has made the night and the day, to be of service to you.

( سورة إبراهيم , Ibrahim, Chapter #14, Verse #33)

Thank you for your response.

I must point out that I asked not about Sura 9:5, which I have no problem with, but Sura 9:29.

Fight those who believe not
in God nor the Last Day,
nor hold that forbidden
which hath been forbidden
by God and His Apostle,
nor acknowledge the religion
of truth, (even if they are)
of the People of the Book
Untill they pay the Jizya
with willing submission
and feel themselves subdued.

As translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

As I said I checked the rationaist Muhammad Asad’s translation and he did not seem to give a satisfactory account either.

As to the Sun. I may have gotten that confused with a Hadith. Either a Hadith or the Qur’an claims that on the last day the Sun will rise from the west.

 

[severntofall]

Abraham had Hargar.

Then he was a bad man too. Of course, the number of Muhammad’s sex slave would put Abraham to shame.

 

[neploho]

Then he was a bad man too. Of course, the number of Muhammad’s sex slave would put Abraham to shame.

Abraham was a bad man on what grounds?

 

[severntofall]

Abraham was a bad man on what grounds?

I am going to take the contraversial position of say that anytime you have sex with a person who has no say in the matter, you are a bad person. Now if Hargar was a willing participate in the carnal act; if she was actually given the oporitunity to refuse then that would change things. If Hargar was compelled to procreate with Abraham then she was raped.

 

[neploho]

I am going to take the contraversial position of say that anytime you have sex with a person who has no say in the matter, you are a bad person. Now if Hargar was a willing participate in the carnal act; if she was actually given the oporitunity to refuse then that would change things. If Hargar was compelled to procreate with Abraham then she was raped.

And on what grounds is that wrong?

I consider concubinage morally wrong but I do not claim that such moral principals are absolute. If Muslims wish to retain concubinage I will oppose that; however, I cannot condemn Abraham or Muhammad for failing to be not just morally progressive for their ages but super morally progressive. Do you eat meat? I do. If in the distant future consumption of animals is seen as morally abhorrent to a majority of the population and I were to be judged by my ancestors I would hope they would similarly give me such a benefit and take into account the social context within which I was raised. I see no reason not to extend that same courtesy to Abraham or Muhammad.

 

[severntofall]

And on what grounds is that wrong?

I consider concubinage morally wrong but I do not claim that such moral principals are absolute. If Muslims wish to retain concubinage I will oppose that; however, I cannot condemn Abraham or Muhammad for failing to be not just morally progressive for their ages but super morally progressive. Do you eat meat? I do. If in the distant future consumption of animals is seen as morally abhorrent to a majority of the population and I were to be judged by my ancestors I would hope they would similarly give me such a benefit and take into account the social context within which I was raised. I see no reason not to extend that same courtesy to Abraham or Muhammad.

Ohhhh…you see, I wasn’t aware that morality was defined by the region and time you lived in. Silly me, I thought that morality was objective and that anyone who was a prophet of God would have great insite into it. Apparently I was wrong. I guess there’s no contaction in being a Holy Prophet and forcing a woman to have sex against her will. My face is so red right now. I’ll go tell my wife to have an abortion since in this culture and time it’s acceptable.

 

[neploho]

Ohhhh…you see, I wasn’t aware that morality was defined by the region and time you lived in. Silly me, I thought that morality was objective and that anyone who was a prophet of God would have great insite into it. Apparently I was wrong. I guess there’s no contaction in being a Holy Prophet and forcing a woman to have sex against her will. My face is so red right now. I’ll go tell my wife to have an abortion since in this culture and time it’s acceptable.

Well your petty and sadly insufficient attempts at wit aside you still have not address my question.

Upon what moral foundation were his actions wrong?

Now you are correct that one would expect a Prophet directly inspired by God to be morally inerrant, at least in his teachings, however I do not consider Muhammad a morally inerrant man. You may have noted this from the instance where I specifically said I do not consider Muhammad a morally inerrant man.

 

[severntofall]

Well your petty and sadly insufficient attempts at wit aside you still have not address my question.

Upon what moral foundation were his actions wrong?

Now you are correct that one would expect a Prophet directly inspired by God to be morally inerrant, at least in his teachings, however I do not consider Muhammad a morally inerrant man. You may have noted this from the instance where I specifically said I do not consider Muhammad a morally inerrant man.

OMG. If I have to explain why forcing a woman to have sex with you is wrong then we have problems. If Mohammed can’t be said to understand this simple moral truth, then why should we listen to anything he has to say in regards to morality as a whole? He claims to have spoken for God (and admits that he did on occasion speak for Satan). You don’t think God could have told him “Hey Muhammed, stop raping that girl, it’s really bad for the image…oh yeah it’s a pretty big sin too”? If anyone should be expect to understand such a basic moral principle it would be the Great Prophet. He claims to have communicated with Allah and Gabriel all the time.

 

[neploho]

OMG. If I have to explain why forcing a woman to have sex with you is wrong then we have problems.

There are a few problems. Firstly you have not documented any instance of Muhammad raping a woman. The Qur’an permits concubinage. I do not know to what extent Muhammad was involved in the practice.

If Mohammed can’t be said to understand this simple moral truth, then why should we listen to anything he has to say in regards to morality as a whole?

Well the rather elementry moral truth that xenophobia is bad seems to escape you. I suppose I ought to now discount any moral lessons you seek to teach me.

He claims to have spoken for God (and admits that he did on occasion speak for Satan). You don’t think God could have told him “Hey Muhammed, stop raping that girl, it’s really bad for the image…oh yeah it’s a pretty big sin too”? If anyone should be expect to understand such a basic moral principle it would be the Great Prophet. He claims to have communicated with Allah and Gabriel all the time.

Once again it seems to escape you that I do not affirm the prophethood of Muhammad. Yet again you have failed to address upon what foundation your morals rest.

 

[severntofall]

There are a few problems. Firstly you have not documented any instance of Muhammad raping a woman. The Qur’an permits concubinage. I do not know to what extent Muhammad was involved in the practice.

There are countless refrences to Muhammad’s in the many post about Islam all over this forum…countless, and they’re all verifibaly from the Qu’ran and particularly the hadiths. I am not going to repost them all, you’ll need to do a little research. Concubinage and rape are one, there is absolutely no difference between the two.

Well the rather elementry moral truth that xenophobia is bad seems to escape you. I suppose I ought to now discount any moral lessons you seek to teach me.

I’m not a xenophope, I’m an Islamaphobe (big diffence), and everyone with an appreciation for and understaning of it’s history is as well.

Once again it seems to escape you that I do not affirm the prophethood of Muhammad. Yet again you have failed to address upon what foundation your morals rest.

You’ve become quite the advocate for moral relativism; however if all you are saying is that Muhammed is naught but a product of his region and era then I cannot disagree.

 

[neploho]

There are countless refrences to Muhammad’s in the many post about Islam all over this forum…countless, and they’re all verifibaly from the Qu’ran and particularly the hadiths. I am not going to repost them all, you’ll need to do a little research. Concubinage and rape are one, there is absolutely no difference between the two

Main Entry: con·cu·bine 1.

Pronunciation: \ˈ’käŋ?-kyu̇?-ˌ?bīin, ˈ’kän-, -kyü-\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin concubina, from com- + cubare to lie Date: 14th century
: a woman with whom a man cohabits without being married: as a: one having a recognized social status in a household below that of a wife b: mistress 4a

I’m not a xenophope, I’m an Islamaphobe (big diffence), and everyone with an appreciation for and understaning of it’s history is as well.

Really? Montgomery Watt was an Islamaphobe?

1. You’ve become quite the advocate for moral relativism; however if all you are saying is that Muhammed is naught but a product of his region and era then I cannot disagree.

I have not advocated moral relativism I have espoused it. Beyond that you have yet again failed, not simply to make a coherent argument, but to answer my question of what you base your morals on.

 

[severntofall]

Main Entry: con·cu·bine 1.

Pronunciation: \ˈ’käŋ?-kyu̇?-ˌ?bīin, ˈ’kän-, -kyü-\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin concubina, from com- + cubare to lie Date: 14th century
: a woman with whom a man cohabits without being married: as a: one having a recognized social status in a household below that of a wife b: mistress 4a

If you are a concunine and have no say in the matter you are a slave. Sex with said slave is rape.

Really? Montgomery Watt was an Islamaphobe?

Sad what happened to him isn’t it?

I have not advocated moral relativism I have espoused it. Beyond that you have yet again failed, not simply to make a coherent argument, but to answer my question of what you base your morals on.

Well one of us has failed to make his argument. I’m sure we disagree on just who that is as well. My only point from the begining was that to have sex with a woman without her consent is rape and it is evil. People who do so are evil as well. Perhaps this is the result of the fact that Muhammed was of an evil culture. This doesn’t mean he wasn’t evil, just explains why he was. There’s always a reason why a person is evil…always. This should not be considered a justification, just an expaination. Let me ask you, do you believe it is possible to have sex with a woman who is screaming and pleading with you to stop and not think that you were commiting an evil? Your inability to grasp this fact is shocking considering your eloquent use of the english language.

 

[neploho]

If you are a concunine and have no say in the matter you are a slave. Sex with said slave is rape.

Did you read the definition I posted. St. Augustine also had a concubine, it was a totally consensual relationship. If you have decided to change the definition of “concubine” to something synonymous with “sex slave” that is a personal decision, but you cannot read sources using the term in the historic sense with the assumption that they adopted your novel adaptation. Also you should make it clear that you have decided to redefine the term before hand. Also a concubine is not necessarily a slave.

Sad what happened to him isn’t it?

I don’t know. I’m sure many things happened to him in his life, but you need to specify what happening you are referring to.

Well one of us has failed to make his argument.

No, both of us have made arguments. You have refused to clarify what you mean by key terms which makes your argument impossible to evaluate.

My only point from the begining was that to have sex with a woman without her consent is rape and it is evil.

Yes, and somehow you have failed to qdequately defend even that rather elementry elementry premise. You have failed to point to any instances where Muhammad actually raped a women and you have failed to specify what you mean by “evil” or give any insight into just how your system of ethics functions.

People who do so are evil as well.

Again, you make the vague claim but have yet to bolster or clarify it.

Perhaps this is the result of the fact that Muhammed was of an evil culture.

This doesn’t mean he wasn’t evil, just explains why he was. There’s always always a reason why a person is evil…always.

Yet there does not seem to be any forthcoming explanation of what you mean by the term “evil”.

This should not be considered a justification, just an expaination. Let me ask you, do you believe it is possible to have sex with a woman who is screaming and pleading with you to stop and not think that you were commiting an evil?

Well I can hardly answer the question as I do not know what you mean by “evil” I know what I mean by the term, and by that definition would consider the act as such, but I cannot answer for you unless I know what you mean by the term.

Your inability to grasp this fact is shocking considering your eloquent use of the english language.

Again, I never said rape was not wicked.

 

[severntofall]

Did you read the definition I posted. St. Augustine also had a concubine, it was a totally consensual relationship. If you have decided to change the definition of “concubine” to something synonymous with “sex slave” that is a personal decision, but you cannot read sources using the term in the historic sense with the assumption that they adopted your novel adaptation. Also you should make it clear that you have decided to redefine the term before hand. Also a concubine is not necessarily a slave.

You’re correct. of course this was far from the may point of contention.

Yes, and somehow you have failed to qdequately defend even that rather elementry elementry premise. You have failed to point to any instances where Muhammad actually raped a women and you have failed to specify what you mean by “evil” or give any insight into just how your system of ethics functions.

For the benifit of a person who has engaged in a debate without any knowledge of the historical realities of the matter I will assist. I will not re-post all of the countless examples found on this forum, this link should suffice.

faithfreedom.org/challenge/rapist.htm

Again, you make the vague claim but have yet to bolster or clarify it.

I have made very specific claims, it is you who have been lacking. The man has rape women, there is no accpetable justification of this. The fact that I at first refused to recount each occasion is due to the fact that there are at least 20 examples on the Islam focused topics here on this very forum. I merely requested that you do the research…it is you who failed to comply.

Perhaps this is the result of the fact that Muhammed was of an evil culture.

Yet there does not seem to be any forthcoming explanation of what you mean by the term “evil”.

Ok. I’ve already apologized for not having explained even the simplest of concepts to you in exhaustive detail. Again, I’m sorry. A person is evil if they tend to do evil things. Something is evil if it does more harm than good; if it causes more pain than joy. An evil society is one that permits and/or approves of behavior where people are allowed to do evil unto others. All societies permit evil on some levels, but any society that institutionalizes rape is an evil society. I was not aware that I would have to explain this. Again, I’m sorry.

 

[Vanquisher]

**ISA AKBAR!

ISA AKBAR!

ISA AKBAR!

I bear witness there is NO GOD** but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead!

Basil, “Isa” is the false Mohammedan version of Jesus who bears no resemblance to the real Jesus, the second person of the Blessed Trinity who was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, suffered, died, and was buried, rose again on the third day, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty from thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead, and whose kingdom shall have no end.

Arab Christians call the real Jesus “Yassou.”

Yassou akbar!!

 

[inJESUS]

The name given by Muhammad to women slaves is called right hand possessions. In Islam, a women “possessed” is not a wife…you can have sex with her or sell her but she is not a wife. Muhammad had too many concubines and there are incidents where he chose the prittiest ones to have sex with, and if someone of his followers picked a woman he wanted, he’ll take her. Abraham has nothing to do with Muhammad since Abraham wasn’t picking women he just killed their husbands. It was Sarah who asked him to sleep with her maid to have children she would call her own and after the Mosaic law, women slaves were to become either legitimite wives or freed…there is nothing called women possessions to have sex with, nor to sell. If you sleep with a slave woman and then sell her to another man who will sleep with her and sell her, this is called prostitution. muslim men can have up to 4 wives in addition to an unlimited number of possessions …since these women are not wives, they are simply sex slaves. Hadith even says Muhammad used to have sex with 11 women in a single day. Add to it him marrying his adopted son’s wife. Add to it allowing temporary sex still practiced by the Shia. We do not assess him based on a single deed, but on the whole picture. Sex slaves, temporary marriages, marrying his adopted son’s wife, having sex with 11 women on a single day are enough to cast doubt about the morality of this man who claims to do everything according to God via Gabriel, especially in light of Jesus’ teachings and life. Since we believe that God’s revelations are progressive, leading His people step by step until fulfillment of His original plan, we cannot but wonder about Muhammad’s claims and character.