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medwigel
Guest
Riiiiight, it’s those blinders again and not the truth
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G
guanophore
Guest
The authority is based on the fact that all authority was given to Christ, and He gave it to them. All believers receive the Holy Spirit, but not all are given the authority to act in the name of Christ to forgive sins.
We all are personally called to forgive anyone who offends us, but only those who are ordained to do so can act on behalf of Christ and the Church.
I am sure you would like to be able to be the one person who embodies all the gifts and tasks mentioned in the NT, but I don’t think this is likely. God calls certain persons to certain tasks, and those who are ordained in the Aposotlic succession are those to whom authority is given to absolve or retain sins.
1 Corinthians 12:29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
In fact, medwigel, your claim that you have everything the Holy Spirit gives contradicts Scripture.
It certainly is some persons or group of persons’ ideas of what the Bible has to say, but the Bible is a Catholic book, written by, for, and about Catholics. That is why there is nothing in it that can contradict the Catholic faith. What is contradictory is your perceptions.
You still have not answered the question of why you are on CAF.
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medwigel
Guest
M
medwigel
Guest
There is no distinction made between the layperson and the ordained when it comes to forgiving others.
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medwigel
Guest
The Bible is written for all believers. As mentioned before there was ample opportunity for the word “catholic” to be included in the Bible as the intended audience and that word is nowhere to be found. So God is not small minded; His Word is written to all believers.
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guanophore
Guest
In your tradition, possibly, there is not, but in the Church founded by Christ, there is. Jesus gave authority to the Apostles to forgive sin on His behalf, and that of the Church. They passed this authority on to their successors, the Bishops.
Since you believe that you possess all the gifts, roles, and authority of the Holy Spirit, I am curious what you think is meant by this passage:
John 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
For what reason would you “retain” the sins of any?
M
medwigel
Guest
Philippians 4:13
I can do ALL THINGS through Christ who strengthens me.
So unlike you, I take God at His Word with His promise of no limitations!
If you choose to live below you privilege that’s you to you.
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medwigel
Guest
Adolph Hitler
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guanophore
Guest
Indeed, but there were no non-Catholic believers for the first 1000 years. Those who claimed to be Catholic but were not in unity with the Bishops were considered heretics and apostates.
You have rejected the fact that this word appears in the NT, and you have rejected the first 1500 years of your own family history. Your refusal to accept what has occurred does not prevent it from existing for anyone but yourself.
The recipients of Scripture are clearly identified as “saints” and "theopholists’ All of these persons were Catholic, as were the authors of the 27 books of the NT. Scripture is best understood within the context it was written, which is the Catholic Church. When one removes the writings from their context, the meaning becomes distorted.
All things you are called to do, of course, but scripture is clear that all of us are not called to “all things”. Your belief that you are all these things is contrary to Scripture:
1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
The gift and the call of God is not a privilege or a right, medwigel. These things are not something one lays claim to of themselves. They are determined by the Holy Spirit.
11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
The fact that the Holy Spirit apportions according to His will is not a “limitation” placed upon you. No individual is called to each and every ministry.
So, how does your “retaining” the sins of Adolph Hitler affect Hitler? Is what you have decreed (that he should not be forgiven) bind that in heaven?
If you should personally change your mind, and decide that he should be forgiven, will that verdict be reversed in heaven?
What brings you to CAF, medwigel? Are you trying to make the case that your opinion is as important as all the bishops, including the Pope?
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medwigel
Guest
This is a question you should be asking the Scripture not me because you were the one referencing John 20
21-22)23How does the apostles and their successors “retaining” the sins of Adolph Hitler affect Hitler? Is what they have decreed bound in heaven?
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guanophore
Guest
Scripture is not a person, medwigel, and cannot answer why you think what you do.This is a question you should be asking the Scripture not me because you were the one referencing John 20
I don’t need to ask this question about the Apostles and their successors, because the Church teaching is very clear. You, however, do not accept this teaching, so I am asking YOU.
I am asking you to reconcile what you claim to believe with what is written in Scripture. You have not answered the question, I suspect because you cannot answer it. Without the Apostolic lens, the passage cannot make any sense.
So, what brings you to CAF, medwigel? You have stated that you believe Catholics are "non-Biblical, and that you are not here to get Catholic answers, since they have no value to you. What is your goal here?
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medwigel
Guest
Scripture is the living Word of God!!
Scripture is very much alive and has the ability to speak to men everyday.
In th beginning was the Word and the Word was God!
Should I spell it out for you?
The Scripture IS Christ and Christ is very much a person!
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guanophore
Guest
The Word of God referenced in John 1:1 is Christ. Scripture is Holy writing - it is text, and is not a living person. The living person is the Holy Spirit, who speaks to us through the written word. You are confused about the nature of Sacred Scripture. Scripture is inspired and inerrant. It is not a person, and it is not Christ.
But the Holy Spirit has not yet explained to me, and perhaps not to you either, why you should think that you have all the gifts and ministries for yourself. Your claim to have everything is contrary to what Scripture states. Scripture cannot explain this contradiction, only you can. Or maybe you can’t? You seem quite unable to defend why you believe as you do .
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medwigel
Guest
There are gifts that God gives the church
Romans 12:6-8
There are gifts that the Holy Spirit gives the church
1 Corinthians 12:8-10
There are gifts that Christ gives the church
Ephesians 4:11
The gifts you referred to earlier are not one of the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit
Go learn about the different gifts given by God, Christ and Holy Spirit first then ask your question again.
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Benadam
Guest
Bible only’s say, I don’t see it in the bible so it’s not in the bible. Just like atheists say, I don’t see God so God doesn’t exist.
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guanophore
Guest
You still have not explained why, since scripture is clear that not everyone has every gift, you have all the gifts and tasks yourself. How is it you assume you have the authority that the Apostles only gave to ordained persons?
Gifts are given to the Church. Not all gifts are given to medwigel. Yet medwigel assumes that everything that belongs to the Church belongs to medwigel, in contradiction to what Scripture clearly states.
1 Corinthians 12:29
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
Apparently the Gospel according to medwigel answers all these questions “YES”.
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medwigel
Guest
News flash, the believers are the church.
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guanophore
Guest
The believers here on earth are a part of the Church, yes, but this alone is a deficient understanding of the nature of Church.
And scripture is clear that the Holy Spirit calls certain people to certain tasks and ministries, but that not all are called to have all the gifts and ministries.
This is different in the Gospel According to Medwigel, since Medwigel rejects what the Scripture says, in favor of what Midwigel wants. Certainly you are not the first to do so.
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medwigel
Guest
once again, go back and study the 9 spiritual gifts that the Holy Spirit gives the church verses the gifts that God and Christ gives the church.
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guanophore
Guest
God has given gifts and ministries to the Church. Scripture is clear that God has not given ALL the gifts and ministries to one person. Your claim to have all the gifts and ministries yourself is contrary to what scripture teaches.
You have not provided any evidence that you have been given this apostolic authority:
John 20:23
If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
And you can’t even explain how it is to be exercised, and to what purpose. You claim you can “retain” the sins of Adolph Hitler, but you cannot explain what impact that has on Adolph Hitler.
Can you give some evidence why Medwigel’s answer to all these questions is “yes”?
1 Corinthians 12:29
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
By what authority do you claim to have ALL the gifts and ministries God has given to the Church?
What evidence can you show that the Holy Spirit has called and equipped you for every gift and ministry?
11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
Why does medwigel think that claiming for oneself the portion overrides what the Spirit wants?
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
Scripture states that God appoints, not medwigel. Do you have evidence of miracles you have worked? Healings you accomplished?
Can you prove that you speak in tongues and can interpret tongues?
Honestly, medwigel, you are sounding like some kind of self appointed fraud.
Why did you come to CAF? What is your goal here?
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